Moving (back) to Australia- should we?

[Pepvixen]

DH and I are dual citizens, have lived here since post grad studies. Have good jobs and lovely home in London. DS is 7. We're low contact with parents for various reasons. We're from a provincial city in Aus, so no comparable jobs. Lots of friends though. We've never considered returning but are now thinking of it, primarily for DS long term if the economy is damaged by Brexit. Any thoughts? What would you do?

It's a little shortsighted to be up and moving because of a pandemic which could at any moment also rip through another country. In summer we all thought we had cracked it too!

For every person that flees there are many others that want to be here though so go for it! Life's to short to wonder what could have been.

I moved home to Aus 2 years ago with dh and 2 DC, after 10 years in London.

Not one day have I regretted that decision.

But we still are very connected to Europe with dh family over there, the shows we watch, the news we read. I actually feel like I have the best of both worlds.

I wouldn't rule out moving back over but I've got no interest for the foreseeable.

However if you don't have family here you care much for, then I think your pull home wouldn't be very strong.

People talk about culture and history like Europe is the only place that has it 🤷

I wish I had moved back when my eldest DC was 7. Now she's at university in UK, others not far behind, and I feel really stuck here. I've watched my nieces and nephews grow up in Australia and think they've generally had a better childhood than my DC have - more relaxed, less structured, parents less on a hamster wheel of busyness.

The current situation makes that even more extreme as exams cancelled and it looks like basically no proper education for god knows how long.

I don't think Australia is perfect and pp make lots of good points about that. But after 20 years here I wish we'd made different decisions earlier.

I would seriously consider it.

But when you say you have a lovely home, is it rented or do you own it? If possible I would not give up owned property but if you have a significant mortgage that is a challenge.

If you move to Australia what will happen with your parents? I assume they live there.

Maybe you could go for a couple of years with a view of moving back for secondary if you decide you don't want to stay in Aus permanently.

It also depends on your financial situation. If you have secure, well paying jobs in London are you willing to give them up to move to a city with no comparable industry...?

On the other hand, my aunt just came home a few months ago and after two weeks hotel quarantine she said she didn't realise how stressed she was under lockdown until she was home and could go out and about again. She was so thrilled to be home.

What city/town are we talking? If you are LC with family anyway, would you consider moving to Sydney or Melbourne instead?

I live in Australia and I love it, but it's far from perfect as you know. The thing I most worry about looking forward is climate change. This summer has been cool because of la Nina, but in general each summer is more scorching hot than the last. Bushfire season is getting longer each year and more areas are affected. Consider last summer - you couldn't go outside without choking because of bushfire smoke. Water is also scarce and water restrictions will be a way of life soon. Sydney is looking at its dams running dry in just a few years.

@FlyNow the dams are not running dry far from it, we are at 94.6% full www.waternsw.com.au/supply/Greater-Sydney/greater-sydney-catchment When they are too full, it is a problem because they have to open the spillway gates.

And @ReefTeeth culture is far more democratic in Europe both in accessibly when you consider the cost (2 adults, 2 children, more than 1.000$ for opera) and how common it is to have an interest in culture for the average family. When you are used to go at least once a month to a cultural event, Sydney runs dry quickly compared to what is on offer in any European city.

@Kaiken Western European art isn't the only form of culture.

Australia has its own rich and ancient indigenous culture, and other fascinating cultures (e.g. Pacific Islands, Balinese) on its doorstep.

I know, too bad, Rio Tinto keeps blowing one Aboriginal site after the other, totally unpunished, but hey mining money talks. This year, they did it twice.

Ask anyone randomly in the street to name 3 aboriginal artists . Or even you reading this, can you without googling? This shows how little it is pushed and encouraged.

There were some works at the Biennale this year but most people have no idea what the Biennale is.

The Pacific Island culture is far more represented at the South Australian Museum in Adelaide than it is here. And for free, compare to the Australian Museum in Sydney.

Well I moved to Perth seven years ago, after previously living in London and Ireland. All countries have their strengths and weaknesses, but we absolutely love it here and have a much better quality of life than before, even disregarding Covid. But as there is no Covid on the loose in WA at the moment, we feel incredibly lucky to live here. Yes it would be nice to be closer to Europe, but I wish I could bring my folks out here where we can live mask free, and safer than most places in the world. So if I was in your shoes I'd definitely consider it. The WA economy is actually in a surplus too (does not apply to the rest of Australia), and I think post Brexit, the UK is unfortunately going to be in a bad place for a while. But YMMV, its a big move and really has to be a personal decision. ANd that border is pretty fimly shut for a while too.

Yes Kaiken, thats because we are currently in la Nina. That lasts about 3 years, then it's back to water shortages.

I think for the average family Australia probably offers a better quality of life than the UK. Better climate, larger housing, more open space and arguably better education.
However if you are really into cultural activities and travel, living in London is probably preferable. The pandemic will be over shortly in the grand scheme of your life and normal schooling etc will resume.

A couple I know returned to live in Aus from London last week - £7000 for flights, their third attempt after the previous two flights were cancelled on them last minute (a very tricky situation with ending their lease in London). Then it was just over $3000 AUD for hotel quarantine. In Australian dollars it was $16k all together.

Basically this thread just sets out the conversations that DH and I have about the U.K. and Australia. We err on the side of moving back for culture, access to Europe etc and then find ourselves going “but day to day life here is just so easy and good!” and never actually doing anything about it. We’re a pretty outdoorsy family though so the climate really suits us as we’re often kayaking, hiking, surfing, playing tennis or soccer etc.
We are lucky though as we are able to travel often normally, so I don’t feel that insularity.
But I guess everyone feels differently based on their own circumstances.

I should add, Australia is a beautiful countries. Mind-blowing landscape and scenery. Really beautiful.

The question the OP asks is about giving more prospects to her child. It comes down to what she means by more prospects.

Would Australia widen a young man's horizons and make him worldwise or cosmopolitan, I don't think so.
Is Australia a great place to grow up? Yes, absolutely, kids get a very long childhood.

Would Australia widen a young man's horizons and make him worldwise or cosmopolitan, I don't think so.
Is Australia a great place to grow up? Yes, absolutely, kids get a very long childhood.

I would probably agree with this. I fully expect my DC to head back to Europe at some point for a different perspective on the world, but much prefer them growing up here then heading off when they're older.

@ReefTeeth that’s basically the decision we made too - better to grow up here and then head to Europe/U.K. as a young adult.

There is just one more thing to consider, the attitude towards homosexuality and race.

It is a country who is definitely not LGBTQ-friendly, schools and some organisation that are religious based (and in Australia, it means a lot of workplace, from cattle stations, to school, hospital, aged care) can discriminate legally. A lot of shame and hate talk, even in Sydney.

Australia's racism is well reported and studied.

So a golden childhood needs to have some very open discussions at home to compensate.

I’m sorry @Kaiken but Australia is incredibly accepting of gay and lesbian people - I honestly don’t think this is an issue in the slightest. Maybe in the past but not nowadays.

Race - sure, there are definitely racists and there is some casual racism especially in the smaller towns but I don’t think you would need any more “open discussions” at home here as opposed to the U.K, especially in light of the racial clashes over the BLM protests.

Sydney is one of the gayest places I’ve ever been

So a school can fire a teacher or expell a student if they are gay and that is accepting? Good luck finding an apartment.
Yes there is Mardi Gras, but it is a just a big party, doesn't mean anything.
None of you was around during the 2017 gay marriage debate?

How many couples do you see holding hands or kissing?
Barcelona is accepting, not Sydney.

And the immigrants, so welcoming, ... or not, I heard PNG is so great, too bad, the kids we send there kills themselves, harm themselves, ..

I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences here with that @Kaiken - as I say, it’s not my experience within anyone I’ve ever worked with, known or been aware of, but I may just be lucky.

Archie roach, elizabeth close, ruby hunter, leroy parsons, tiddas, deborah mailman, wesley enoch, Kevin Gilbert, Lou Bennett, aaron peterson.
I havent double checked spelling (which is not my strong suit) I admit I know two on my list personally. Ive only included ones I think would turn up in a search quickly. Oh and white as, live in a country town in regional NSW and spent 8 years living in London before coming home.

Are you still in touch with mates there? Was recently talking to a mate who returned to native NZ with husband for sake of their child and so she would know family. It's clearly been tricky for them both and she said while family is great and it was right thing for their child, they didn't really have much in common any more with their friends there and its been hard work rebooting careers, his especially.

When choosing what it is best, one needs to analyse their unique family dynamics but also get a clear picture of the country you are thinking of calling home.

Yes there is the typical postcard of beaches, koala , BBQ in the backyard with a beer in one hand which is the norm for all the MNettesrs living there, but next to it, there is a country that puts children aged only 10 years old in jail, sometimes even in isolation for a month, with no clothes because there isn't a prison uniform in their size.
newmatilda.com/2020/06/28/the-child-inside-in-australia-we-prosecute-10-year-olds-especially-if-theyre-black/

the brutality and death in custody of Aboriginals is regularly reported in the news, captured by the police station CCTV

And the children being removed from Aboriginal families, babies just a couple of days old?
www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-22/aboriginal-mothers-fear-children-will-be-taken-away/12166450

So, sorry, but Australia is racist, because there is discrimination and prejudice against a whole community, and Australia is also applying the same discrimination agains the gay community because it allows their members to be treated differently. It is only in the recent years (2016 Queensland) that the age of consent for same sex intercourse was lowered to the same age for those of different sex.

None of us will see it, because we live in our beautiful suburbs with manicured gardens, most have little to no interest in politics.

One can't ignore that teen suicide is increasing so rapidly they have now removed from the school curriculum any book that mentions suicide, so gone is Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary, and so many more classics or modern fiction.

Talking about school, we win the first spot for being the worst bully www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/teens/australian-children-are-some-of-the-worlds-worst-bullies-report-shows/news-story/9edee1ab2984b9b49a326eaf8d48d5d0

Ice is a huge problem and Adelaide is the Ice capital of the world

But as I said, most of us are blissfully unaware and dare I say uninterested in all this, because it doesn't affect us, we go hiking, surfing at the beach.

Australia is a beautiful country in many aspects, but there is a subtle normalisation of many behaviours that would be condemned in most countries and this is very unsettling because even if you have newspapers on the coffee table and talk as a family about facts, children will be influenced by their peers and the general atmosphere.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind, that would be pointless. Once someone has an opinion, no matter the facts presented, they won't change it.
I only want to give the bigger picture.

I grew up in Australia, have lived in London for 12 years now. My DW and DC (4 & 2) are Londoners. When we had our 2 yo we shared parental leave and spent 2 months in Australia at my parents house.

It was a great experience. They live just outside Sydney, it reminded me of the good memories i have of growing up: the space, slower pace of life, wildlife. So of course we had thoughts of making it permanent.

But then when we got into the details it just wasn't enough: we were there for exactly the whole of the last national election that was won by Scomo, this was a good reminder that politics in Australia is as bad as the UK.

My our work me profession is somewhat specialised so would only be able to work city centre jobs in Sydney or Melbourne. So i would either commute 3 hours a day to live in the lovely area i grew up in, or live in the suburbs of Sydney. I never saw my dad Monday - Friday growing up because he did the 3 hours commute, and i said I'll never do that to my kids. We could live in the suburbs of Sydney but what's the point when i live in the suburbs of London, and happily so. The vast suburban sprawl of Sydney does not appeal. Also my DW has a senior role in education, she would have to start at the bottom again.

I grew up desperate to see the world and Australia seems so far away. I'm happy in London, doing it for my kids when they're young has appeal but i think once they're in the teenage years London is the better option.

But everyone's situation is different

*my work profession is somewhat specialised