Raising Kids in the US or UK

[usorukcantdecide]

We live in London at the minute. One of us is English, the other is American, but we have both lived in both countries quite a lot, and feel comfortable in each. That said, for one of us England is much better work-wise (and perhaps personality wise) for one and for the other America is much better. That's just the way it is, job-wise.

We have two young kids (one in Reception now) and we really want to decide where we are going to settle down, as the older they get the harder they will be to uproot!

So since we are split on which place we like better, I'm wanting to know what people really think is better for kids. I know, it's vague. But what are the factors -- like schooling, etc? If it helps, the choices are between London and a large city in the Northeast (probably New York or Boston.) Assume living costs are about the same (though we have more for our money in London than NYC, for example) and that we would always strive to live in a place with good public schools.

London feeling really grim at the minute (and the UK in general with Brexit) is pushing this a bit, but hopefully that's just temporary!

Guess I'm thinking: schooling, personality, pressure, guns (!), lifestyle, etc. Politics is terrible in both places. All seem to have pluses and minuses.

Thoughts welcome!

A good state elementary school in the US (or even a decent one) will have specialist teachers for gym, art, music, and sometimes other things. The curriculum has far more flexibility than the UK one, so kids can spend a few weeks learning to weave, or putting on a play, or writing their own novels, etc. A good classroom teacher in the US can have the freedom to be creative and can do some amazing things. In some places teachers are very well paid too ( my sister makes over $1000,000).

On the other hand, lots of schools don't let the kids play outside unless the weather is perfect. Lots of kids are medicated for ADHD.

I have never seen a gun except in the hands of the police, and don't know anyone who owns one or approves of the lack of gun control.

sorry - extra 0 there in my sister's salary

Another Brit In the US, we chose to raise our kids in the US. For us the US wins hands down every time.

Better pay, lower cost of living, more space, less people, more opportunities, better education to name a few.

Lots of kids are medicated for ADHD.

They are - but they also get assessed and get the help they need very quickly, from my experience.

I'm an American who has lived in the UK for nearly 9 years. Even with the madness that is Brexit here, it'd take a LOT for me to move back now. Trump. Guns. Women's rights being taken away. No thanks.
How would you feel about your children being subjected to active shooter drills, and being told they're no worse than a fire drill? That's the reality of school life formany of the children of friends and family back home right now.

Then there's health insurance, cost of higher education, minimal holiday hours, etc, etc

I don't like active shooter drills at all.

Mind you, if we'd stayed in the UK, my kids would have been at a school where a kid died of stab wounds a couple of years ago. And it's the best school in a nice town.

The active shooter drills would be enough for me to veto American schooling system. No child should have to live under that threat.

I am American and DH is British and our youngest is 17. We settled her in the UK and I don't regret it (although not happy with current politics in either country). I feel grateful that my children have never experienced lockdown drills. They have also been glad to eliminate subjects that didn't interest them post-16 (there are huge general ed requirements there even at university level, which I personally hated). Also, as a non-religious family, I find the constant references to God over there quite annoying - it is much more prevalent in people's daily lives there than in in my view.

Thanks all! I wanted to respond afterward we’d go come some conclusion but we can’t! All really useful to consider. The religion point is interesting. I do find America more religious but I am also shocked how much religion there is in or state school here - can’t so that in the US. Not sure how that cuts. Lots of pros and cons - we shall see! Thanks all!

Honestly there’s no right or wrong answer. We’ve been in California for 7 years, moved from London, now looking at middle schools for our eldest when we thought we’d be home by now.

I agree with pretty much every viewpoint mentioned, even when they totally disagree with each other (except PP about flexibility in education in elementary school and specialist teachers for all the art subjects, very much the opposite experience for us) and there are pros and cons to both totally dependent on where in each country you are

My big overriding con about living here is all my people are in the U.K. and I really miss having quick and easy access to other countries. We spend a lot of money and our big yearly holiday just on going home, not anywhere new, and it’s never enough time with everyone. But my DH would be fine to do a few years not going to the UK and goingelsewhere. Horses for courses.

I would say your children are so little why not try it out for a few years and then make a decision based on your own actual experience, they will still be small enough that an international move won’t massively impact them

Also, as a non-religious family, I find the constant references to God over there quite annoying - it is much more prevalent in people's daily lives there than in in my view.

depends on where you live. In Boston or NY no one will be talking about god much and certainly it won't impact at all on your daily life. In Mississippi or Lousianna that may not be true but that's isn't where OP is likely to end up. And god will be entirely absent from the schools which is unlikely in the UK where some bit of daily worship is required by law (the head of state being the head of a particular church too) - right? Having grown up with catholic schools in Ireland I find the absolute non-religious nature of US state schools really refreshing and inclusive.

I was in NYC for many years and now in CA and would never move back to the UK. I find life in the US so much easier. Some things may be more expensive but every NYer I know who has moved to London claims it is a lot more expensive there so this seems to be a perception that goes both ways. In NYC my kids went to an excellent state school with people from all over the world, truly cosmopolitan (we lived in Brooklyn). We walked everywhere, had a tight knit community and easy access to so many things (beaches, skiing, airport with flights to everywhere in the world). I would highly recommend Brooklyn to any British transplants, lots of Brits and other Europeans there.
I have never had anything but great experiences with the healthcare system, we have decent insurance (used to be better but they got rid of those plans) and apart from a little effort needed to stay on top of the insurance company to make sure they pay, it all works out well. In CA I even have a dr that comes to the house within a day all covered 100% by insurance.
I prefer the school system, it is less rigid especially in HS and my kids have has so many extras in the schools (arts programs etc). NYC was a little stressful with overcrowded schools and wait lists but that isn't the norm. I know public schools in the actual city of Boston can be a bit complicated too, but close in suburbs like Brookline have amazing schools and an easy commute.
Guns have always been pretty much a non-issue for me as has religion, my kids have friends of all religious backgrounds and no one tries to push it on you or even talks about it. Yes there are some disturbing things going on politically particularly at the state level but it isn't an issue if you don't live in those states and isn't (at least for me) a reason not to live here.

Also, as a non-religious family, I find the constant references to God over there quite annoying - it is much more prevalent in people's daily lives there than in in my view.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone referenced God in my life.

Everyone in the UK had Good Friday and Easter Sunday as bank holidays, yes? We don't get those.

The schools don't have 'Christmas holiday' or 'Easter holiday' - they have winter vacation and April vacation (often not actually at Easter).

No nativities or Christmas concerts.

I did go to some church fayres in early December - that's probably the last time I encountered anything vaguely religious in my life.

The big difference is healthcare. We moved back partly because our insurance was about to rise to $600 a month (on top of the employers contribution) in addition the public schools were crazily big and guns, I could not deal with them, I hate even seeing the airport police with them in the U.K. - perhaps silly but school shootings are frequent in the USA

The other thing is you hardly get any annual leave in the USA, 2 weeks is common! Working days are longer too. We don't live in London either now,it's 5 mins to work, 10 to the city centre but only 10 mins to rolling fields. You can buy private medical in the U.K. and private school - you can't buy time.

The average annual leave taken in 2018 was 17 days per year (3.5 weeks) and it's increasing every year. Not at UK standards yet but going in the right direction. I got 33 days per year in my last job and DH gets 25.

Our public school system averages 19 students per class. Our high school is growing though - we're about to add some bits onto it so they can cope with increasing in size from 600 students to 700 students. No need to pay for private school as we have an excellent state system with guaranteed places for everyone who lives in the town.

And when you buy private healthcare in the UK it can - perfectly legally - exclude pre-existing conditions. This is no longer the case in the US.

It would be America hands down for me, I think there are more options for kids, sports out door life etc that's just my opinion

19 in a class is cool!

I think I was told that my step-sis & husband are paying $1000/month for their health insurance (2 late middle aged adults + 1 nearly adult kid). Self-employed costs. That might include dental, tbf. But remember, there's still copay on everything, too.

One nice thing is it's easy for my California cousins to take their kids out of school on holiday (although severely frowned upon if taken out for a single day's jolly). As long as the kids have basically good attendance, vacay is ok. The school works with them to make sure the kids do some work while away.

There was also more than double the murders in London than Boston last year so I would be more worried about being stabbed in London than being shot in Boston tbh

I think I was told that my step-sis & husband are paying $1000/month for their health insurance (2 late middle aged adults + 1 nearly adult kid). Self-employed costs. That might include dental, tbf. But remember, there's still copay on everything, too.

That sounds about right - but I didn't get the impression the OP is going to be self-employed?

Cost of living is NOT lower in east coast US city commuterbelt than London commuterbelt.

University education is super expensive in US, but I prefer the breadth of the high school / university curriculum to the UK system.

You can’t beat the US on facilities. My son had a band concert at his future high school, as we walked through the campus we saw the performing arts centre (theatre), baseball diamond with stands, football field with stands, Olympic size pool with dive centre. Plus I’m sure other things we didn’t notice. All our high schools have similar facilities.

What I don’t like is we can’t seem to get ahead here. There is always an insurance to pay, a medical bill or something else that sets us back. It’s incredibly expensive IMO and we live in the relatively cheap state of TX. I’ve been unemployed for 5yrs and can’t get an interview, lost out on 100s of 1000s of income over that time. We have to top up every month using savings.

I’ve joined an expat forum from my home country. Loads of the women have lived here 20yrs + and are still befuddled by the social etiquette. It’s a hard system to break into, biggest complaint was not being able to pop in on friends or be offered a cup of coffee/tea and a chat. Or the tit for tat favours, they don’t seem to like owing you something, but I’ll do a favour because I’m neighbourly, not to receive in return. For the most part they all missed the easy social conventions of where we’re from and really struggle for friends. I’ve found the same in 6yrs I have two genuine American friends, one met through school, the other through an in-line baby group, the other few I have are Scottish and Australian.

For me I’d like to leave, it seems to be a constant struggle and I don’t want that for my DC in life. Re college costs, my friend has just burned through $100k paying for her eldest’s degree. She is now in debt and has 2 more DC to fund somehow in a few years. Maybe they weren’t smart about finance and scholarships, initially they weren’t green card holders and didn’t seem to be able to get anything. Her Dd couldn’t even work for the first 2yrs (and got used to it and didn’t bother with a job for the last 2 either )