Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Living overseas

Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

Is South Africa as bad/good as people say?

89 replies

Thiswaytobermuda · 10/03/2019 09:54

My work has suggested I might like to take up a permanent position in SA. It would be Johannesburg, and moving costs would be included. We wouldn't be at the top end of income but it would be reasonable, and we could afford some domestic help, although I'm not sure we could then cover private schools, unless they are cheap. We have children and I am sure they will slot fine into school generally but I am particularly worried about where the reception year DC would fit in as I understand school starts at 6 or 7 only. Do people really feel very unsafe driving around or being alone in a house at night (my partner would be travelling sometimes to keep his job going alongside mine)? Are services likely to go downhill in the next few years? (I have previously lived in Cape Town for a while and another African country but long ago and without children. Found some aspects like electricity black outs or no water for a day frustrating but manageable, but also never felt unsafe.) Will I spend all my time worrying about our safety and not enjoy what I think SA does offer families, like weather and outdoor pursuits, cheap food,and local travel?. What may I miss so much from the UK that I would regret the move?

OP posts:
Thiswaytobermuda · 11/03/2019 15:44

gregory and perch thank you for personal stories.
I realise most comments here have been about how things were a few years back, but besides the junk status etc, not much on now? Has nothing changed, taking into account I too was there some time ago?

OP posts:
Thiswaytobermuda · 11/03/2019 15:48

Cross posted March That's awful.

OP posts:
donajimena · 11/03/2019 15:55

I can't relate personally but my brother had the opportunity to go there and earn a fortune. I joined a Facebook group called the Truth About South Africa. It'll make your hair stand on end. He didn't go thankfully. The money would have made for a gilded cage.

Barrenfieldoffucks · 11/03/2019 16:01

A friend is south African, with family in Joburg. She visited for a month back end of 2018 and said she won't be going again. She's been bi-annually since leaving 15 years ago and said it has got steadily worse. She's now pregnant and won't take the child.

Her family are trying to leave

You sound pretty determined to go, despite overwhelming poor reports.

Thiswaytobermuda · 11/03/2019 16:08

barren not determined but interested. I like being able to weigh up things and when I only hear one thing I don't feel satisfied. Blush It's a personal flaw probably. I have a handful of SA acquaintances and none have been as negative as I've heard on here, although perhaps not necessarily glowing with praise. None of them are here for security reasons as far as they are able to say to me, although they commented on it. Income, studies, love, experience and so forth. Two definitely want to go back after their studies. The others not that I know of.

OP posts:
BrendaUrie · 11/03/2019 16:10

Everyone here has said don't go and OP seems completely undeterred.

Why even ask if you're going to completely dismiss every person's experience.

HighOverTheFenceLeapsSunnyJim · 11/03/2019 16:12

I've just spent a year living in the Eastern Cape with my family - totally different set up to expat life in Joburg so much of my experience would not be applicable to you... We would go to JHB on a good package, for a period of time. We wouldn't move there permanently due to a feeling of unease about the future, basically. Feel free to PM me.

PretoriaResident · 11/03/2019 16:13

I lived in SA for 5 years and moved back to the UK late last year.

And while I do recognise many of the anecdotes here, I personally experienced only a fabulous life in SA. Friends had other experiences, so it does depend on the luck of the draw, I guess.

Obviously, I was in Pretoria, not Joburg, so a bit different, but as long as you get proper safety and security training from a local firm, and are naturally hyper-vigilant, life can be great there. You learn how to drive differently, how to deal with day to day life. Joburg even has outdoor cafes, which amazed me as most stuff in Pretoria is in a mall.

You do need to negotiate a better relocation package though. As a PP said, you need school fees and accommodation on a gated, secure compound in order to feel safe. Individual houses are also gated but you don't have your own security guards there. I had no problem living behind bars - I'd done that in previous countries anyway. I find it more disturbing in the UK that people can come right to my door!

Food is amazing, so much better - and mostly cheaper - than the UK.
Electricity is not so amazing. You need a generator. We also had water shortages while there. You will also need a car for each adult.

I guess your kids are little, which is probably better. With the right estate they will be able to play out with friends. Lots of lovely kindergartens. Older kids/teens have a more difficult time as they cannot be independent. Public transport is a no.

Can't think of anything else right now, but happy to answer any other questions you may have :-)

anniehm · 11/03/2019 16:15

Safety is a major issue, my friend pays for private armed security who patrol the neighbourhood. Also bars at windows etc is normal. Their kids are in expat international school (very £££) paid for by work and qualify for U.K. boarding school from 13. Plus point is live in maid/cook, driver/bodyguard and their £100k salary goes a long way.

SweetAsSpice · 11/03/2019 17:20

Husband is from SA. It is not a place to raise children, if you have the choice. Which you do.

DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 11/03/2019 17:36

I have new neighbours who have recently moved over here from SA.
They were scared of high rate of violent crime, had lived in a beautiful gated community but their kids' school had to have police guard at pick up and drop off as there had been so many abductions. Shock

They have no family here, but some friends from uni etc, and just wanted to get the F out of there.

Espoleta · 11/03/2019 21:59

Op I would look in saxonworld/ Killarney to sandton. My cousin (one of four born and bred in the uk) lives in saxonworld and does in fact walk places!

How old are your kids? I can give you some school recommendations.

To reiterate all my family have moved back and love it. One thing is that people do struggling moving from London back to sa (but apparently ozies find it the same..)

Unfortunately there is a lot of scaremongering and South Africa is a polarizing country! The country really has a buzz.

If you have any questions feel free to ask or pm me.

Ginger1982 · 11/03/2019 23:39

but as long as you get proper safety and security training from a local firm, and are naturally hyper-vigilant, life can be great there.

Yikes! What a way to live!

PretoriaResident · 11/03/2019 23:57

Ginger1982 Each to their own.
I’ve always been vigilant. Living in a rough area of London helped with that. I just ramped it up a little in SA. I learned how to enter my driveway safely. Actually, I feel less safe here in the UK than I did in SA. There is so much low level aggro here, intimidating gangs of teens, random knife crime - not just the stuff on the news, but right around the corner and in my DCs school. Crime for crime’s sake, for drugs, for a ‘laugh’. Etc etc etc. Crime in SA is very different indeed. Very different.

Now I know how to drive defensively - useful on British roads with so many road Not so great when I forget to stop on red at night 😳

mrbob · 12/03/2019 00:05

I would echo the others. You are living in a gilded cage and I don’t think the big houses and swimming pools can in any way make up for the fact your children won’t be able to play in the street and you will constantly be looking over your shoulder. I know heaps of S Africans who have moved to Australia- has all the good bits and none of the bad and none of them would move back in a million years

villainousbroodmare · 12/03/2019 12:27

I'm Irish. My husband is South African. We've lived in SA for 5 years and are very happy although we are not sure about the future and so we are renting.

We lived first on a farm near Hermanus and now in a suburban area of Cape Town.

We have no bars on our windows and no security company or spiked gates. We do lock our cars into the driveway at night and are probably more alert about personal security than we would be in Ireland. We have never been victims of crime and I would say that fear of crime in no way dictates how we live. We take the dog for a walk, the kids to the beach, the nannies take the babies around the neighbourhood in the pram etc.

Our three kids were all born here - a 3yo and baby twins. The 3yo goes to a lovely local preschool and we, like most parents, walk him there without fear. The babies are at home with two nannies, who are paid well over the going rate and love their jobs. There are a number of families with young kids on out street and all are to be seen playing out on a summer evening, albeit with a parent in view. Mainly to watch for cars, not kidnappers.

Primary schools are excellent. I don't know how secondary schools match up internationally and I don't know if we will still be here at that point. Matric is the school-leaving exam and the pass marks are shockingly low to make the pass rates look good. University courses seem to be subject to lecturer brain-drain (ie emigration of some of the best) and similar dumbing-down.

I have far better working hours than I would have at home so making the most of this plus the nanny-childcare option. I work with two Americans among others who are both married to SA guys and are both happy here.

I've never lived in Jo'burg although I've spent time there, but I notice that most leisure activities seem to revolve around shopping malls, restaurants and socializing at friends' homes, which must be very repetitive. One bonus of Jo'burg is proximity to wildlife reserves, however.

In Cape Town we have more outdoor space and the beach.

Cost of living is relatively high. Rents are expensive. Groceries are expensive. Petrol is expensive.

Some white South Africans are bitter, entitled, negative and downright weird. Many emigrants are like this. They feel a need to justify their leaving by telling everyone how nightmarish it is here.

I absolutely acknowledge that this is a country experiencing severe inequity, violence and an uncertain future. There is significant political and industrial mismanagement of e.g. utilities and it is hard to see a secure, prosperous and improving future. I also acknowledge that there is a possibility of violence on a daily basis but it is quite possible to live here without being racked by fear, and not necessarily in a gilded cage either.

brookshelley · 12/03/2019 12:33

We have an office in Johannesburg and hear every month or two that a colleague was held up at gunpoint. One had their home raided. And it happens to people of all races.

Most South Africans who can get out do and have. Again - of all races.

VelvetPineapple · 12/03/2019 12:44

I was there for a couple of months. The friends I stayed with live in a gated compound and residents pay towards armed security guards who patrol the perimeter 24/7. Their kids go to private school. Apparently the non-private schools are plagued by hate crimes and knife crimes, kids stabbing other kids, etc. Everyone drives everywhere. You have to drive your kids everywhere. It seemed impossible to even get a taxi home from a restaurant, someone always had to drive. One of my friends was car jacked not long after my visit. They’re worried about their kids’ future, not just because of safety but also because white people are discriminated against for jobs and there’s been talk of seizing white people’s property etc. Anyone who can get out, has. It’s a beautiful country for a holiday but I wouldn’t live there. Australia has similar weather and lifestyle but is much safer.

Linning · 13/03/2019 15:42

You couldn't pay me enough to ever consider moving to SA especially with Children. Came back from SA in June 2018 (so recent) and I hated my time there. Joburg was the absolute worst of all in terms of safety, as even local men felt terrified walking anywhere there and apart from the fact that I hated living behind bars (without even feeling safe doing so) and hated needing to drive, or better yet, uber everywhere as carjacking was not something I was willing to have to worry about.

Hatred towards white people is at its peak, and while I am "lucky enough" to be mixed and therefore not white, my grandma who "didn't have this chance" got properly tortured and threatened to have her throat slit the ONE time we actually walked, it was clear that while we probably would still have been attacked had we both been mixed or black, the fact that she was white made them 100% more violent (they barely touched me while they violently took their anger out on her), there is nothing quite horrifying as seeing 3 men attacking your loved one and seeing her face death and you not being able to do anything, all that because you made the decision to take a walk (thing you should simply NOT do in current SA), Cape Town is the exact same it terms of safety and everyone we met around the country who can afford to move are putting their ducks in order to move out of the country ASAP. It was just so depressing to hear about people's story of being mugged at gun point or their relative having been shot dead for petty things or during a carjacking.

You would be crazy to move there with your kids, knowing the risk. It's different wanting to put yourself into that situation if you are childless but there is no way I would bring my daughter (or my son) to South Africa, I never fell so on the edge about getting raped and assaulted everytime I left the house, it's no quality of life.

You would pretty much be signing to lock yourself and your kids in a "golden cage", fearing for their life everytime they left the house. Why one would willingly want to do that is beyond me.

Personally I have been back 9 months and still suffer from PTSD related to my time in South Africa and everything I had to witness there.

The only people I met who didn't want to move, either didn't have the mean to move or had accepted it was their life and loved their country enough to live in fear saying that they were "used to being mugged" and knew how to not let it affect them. Confused

Thiswaytobermuda · 17/03/2019 10:26

Thank you everyone. I haven't forgotten you but we have been poxed under! Sad I am glad of all the feedback.

OP posts:
Hyrana · 18/03/2019 12:14

Two of my DH's aunties moved to SA many, many years ago and have had children and now grand children there. They seem happy but they also post warnings on Facebook about being aware when driving, going to the shop etc etc. I could never live like that. No big house, pool or whatever could make me live in a Country like that.

PBobs · 24/03/2019 04:57

One of our good friends lives in Jo'burg. Keeps face timing us from his pool or holiday spot. We live on a totally different continent but it's still a bit of a wild west here. We also have the crippling wealth disparities etc. Moving to SA from here wouldn't bother me but I'm not sure I would fancy Jo'burg. We're actually moving to a different African country in a few months though. It also has serious safety issues - actually where our Jo'burg buddy used to live. You weigh up the pros and cons. I am wanting to move somewhere I can be outdoors more and would struggle with that aspect of Jo'burg. Another friend moved there from where we live now and has since returned. More to do with the work than the city although he said he thought it was starting to feel a bit too edgy even for us slightly reckless types.

Education is definitely significant. Also what are the benefits that you will get as part of your overseas package. Check on things like health insurance, accommodation costs (rent and utilities), education coverage, travel allowances, etc. If none of that is included you need to think seriously and do a proper budget. Health insurance would be the big one for me - worth self-funding if needed. Good housing in a safe place will cost you. Africa doesn't necessarily mean cheap. Flights home are an expense you wouldn't usually budget for. Going home costs more than going on holiday. We're always horrified how much we get through when visiting the UK.

LondonHuffyPuffy · 25/03/2019 18:45

DH and I are discussing moving to SA. It’s his home country. We don’t have kids and would be living to CT so I am not sure how helpful I can be.

I think it must be slightly frustrating for the OP to have so many people on this thread who haven’t even lived in SA saying how someone they know had x or y experience and it was awful etc etc. The few posters who have talked about the positive sides of SA have been more balanced, I think.

OP in terms of schools and costs, there are fees even for state/ public schools. They are minimal though. We got DSS into a very, very good private boarding school and the fees were very low compared to UK school costs. I will ask him later how much we paid. Obviously day school costs will be less. We were, of course, paying the fees from UK salaries so for people on an SA salary the fees can seem expensive. Many of our friends (of all colours - DH is not white) have kids at private school, from reception onwards.

Our reasons for considering a move are very different, but don’t let the horror stories necessarily dissuade you. There must be ex-pat Facebook or other online groups that could give you a more balanced perspective.

Baie geluk/ good luck!

Olikingcharles · 04/05/2019 19:27

My company has a couple of Managers from SA most recent one employed came to Australia around 6 mths ago the things his family and some of his friends who are still there have been through would be terrifying. He says anyone who can is getting out and in no uncertain terms would he entertain returning. He says it's not safe his teen daughters were both raped when the family car was high jacked and he's told similar stories of others. He personally said anyone considering a move there would be insane.

Dubbadubbadumdum · 15/05/2019 12:48

Having lived there previously myself, and with family members who are in the process of leaving SA, I think you're mad to entertain it. Without a doubt, it is a stunningly beautiful country, and it has a very dear place in my heart, but there is no way in hell I would ever live there again. Crime is rising steadily, job's are increasingly hard to come by, education is lacking severely-especially in high school, food is expensive, cars cost a fortune to but and run, houses are expensive to buy and generally poorly built/maintained.