Moving with a pre-teen

[reluctantbrit]

DH and I are Germans, living in the UK for 19 years. DD is 11 and born here.

We originally said Brexit is no reason to go, citizenship application is sent.

But, we are starting to have second thoughts. So, the idea to go back is coming up more and more but the biggest hurdle we see is how DD will take it.

Germany is a distant country for her, she speaks German but does not write or read it well. She enjoys being there for holidays and seeing the grandparents but I fear the idea of a move would be causing a disaster.

So, those of you who moved with a pre-teen, how did you manage it? What are the biggest hurdles, what can be done to deal with the fear, anger and frustration DD will have - rightly so.

Nothing is set in stone but I just think it is an avenue I like to explore.

I think you are worrying too much. Your DD will need support (from her parents or a tutor) to catch up in written German, but it won’t be difficult if she is a native speaker of German. I know children who have done similar (France to US, France to Italy) and the catch up is very easy compared to that of a child who doesn’t speak the language of the new country in his/her family.

Can you enroll her in a school with other DC who have made a similar move? I would be much more worried about cultural/psychological isolation than about language.

Thanks. We think about sending her to an international school instead of a German Secondary so that hopefully will mean she is not feeling too lost.

I agree, catching up on written German would be a must before we go. We are this year in August in Germany for our main h9liday and Dd will spend a week on her own at a horse camp so I hope she will think German girls are not strange aliens. Unfortunately with no cousins of her age she doesn’t meet lots of childrenwhen we visit the grandparents.

Depending on Brexit and my job we wouldn’t be able to re-locate before end of the year or so anyway.

I am a worrier, so it could be that I make a mountain out of a molehill.

You might want to think twice about the International school. Being a foreigner in your own country isn’t necessarily good long term IMO.

Plenty of our friends have done this both ways and their kids coped really well - the hardest bit will be keeping the English going. All of our eligible international friends here have taken citizenship to make things easier.

I expect that keeping the English going won’t be as hard as all that - by 11 it’s pretty well anchored and English is much easier to access when in non-Anglophone countries than other languages in English-speaking countries.

Friends (German/Irish) have both sons in an international school and it seems to work well but they do have local friends from hobbies in the town they live in and playing with neighbours kids. So I would think it depends on the set up.

A German colleague has her daughters in a bi-lingual school, I think I am conscious about keeping the English up to mother tongue standard and also her not being utterly bored in a class where 99% just lean to say “My name is”.

But I am more concerned about DD being angry, anxious about a move. She is not the best with changes anyway and whenever Brexit came up she would really worry about us going and so far we always said we try out utmost to stay, she knows we applied for citizenship. I feel she will feel betrayed.

But it seems now my job is in danger in the event of a no deal, i work for a German bank and all plans to do business as usual are suddenly in doubt. Job wise it would be very difficult for me to get something decent again if lots of banks cut down or relocate my type of business. So a transfer back to HQ or a German branch would be a way to go. DH is easy job wise luckily.

Come on March and May, get your act together and I know what will be.

While I understand your DD may be anxious about a move, to a large extent DC have to adapt to their parents’ lives, especially when their constraints are work related.

Thanks all,

I'm British, in NL. My kids are in an international school. I agree that I'd think twice about going down that route. It's a weird way to grow up, and your friends are always leaving.

Since you are German, you know how the system works and could help her navigate it.

I know this is going to sound insane in the context, but we've just read When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit. (I know, I know...) Kerr is very positive about her (forced) moves, but doesn't underplay the hard work she did to learn languages and fit in. I wonder if there's anything similar with less 'running away from Hitler'... Anyway, what I'm saying is, I don't think the international school will help. If you're moving for good, I'd really think about using the German system.

reluctantbrit where are you / would you be moving to? Perhaps there will be Mners near by...

We're in rural Bavaria and my eldest was the first bilingual child her kindergarten teachers had encountered (although tbh I think bayerish/ German should also count as bilingual ) but now she's at secondary school in a bigger town, and having chosen to concentrate on modern foreign languages, at least half her class speak at least two European languages at home plus school languages. Some of her 8 Klasse classmates are very, very good at English despite only learning it as a third language at school. DD is a native English speaker who reads a lot and writes her own stories in English, but there's a certain intellectual challenge to only using the vocabulary and grammar she's learned in class during tests and written assignments, and a real skill in speaking your native language to non native learners to keep her on her toes

I wouldn't put your DD into an international school - I remember being a permanent outsider in your own community due to private school and that'd be even worse as a German-not-really-German-not-really foreign girl at an international school. Its a recipe for life long imposter syndrome! I swore I'd send my kids to neighborhood schools and I'm 100% sure it's been the right thing, they are part of the community in a way I've never been in my life!

Good luck!

We moved from the UK to our home country 5 years ago. Dd was 6 then (she is 11 now).
She still speaks English perfectly. Ds was 4 and is 9 now. He still speaks English too.

We opted for them to go to local schools. The standard of education at the international school is lower, it is expensive and kids leave all the time. We have had Englisch speaking au-pairs though. So that has kept them thinking in and speaking English.

Dd starts English in school next year. I know of 2 others in her class who are fluent too. So they will be geouped together and given advanced lessons.

Speak to the local schools to see how they work before you decide.

The standard of education at the international school is lower, it is expensive and kids leave all the time.

This. It happens everywhere, for perfectly understandable reasons. Not good when you are trying to settle permanently.

We moved home last summer for similar reasons. DD was also 11 and the move has been good for her. But, we went to Ireland, so no language issues and she's exempt from having to learn Irish. The school system is different so she's re doing her last year of primary, so academically it's an easy year. And she'll be starting secondary in Sept with her new friends.

I'd take the international school option or a bilingual school if you can find one. It's a hard age to move at anyway, throwing her into the deep end of Germany's rather brutal system could be a nightmare for you all.

age 11 in germany is difficult because of the streaming that happens after year 4/age 10. so maybe you need to consider tutoring.

is there a german saturday school near whereyou live?
or can you buy some grammar materials from amazon and practice?

Ideas are either Hamburg where DH is from and really loves or Frankfurt where my bank’s HQ is based. Def never again Bavaria (sorry, I survived 3 years there).

I know what you all mean about international schools. Depending on the state we would move to she would be in either first or second year of secondary. As all states do schooling slightly different, DH and I grew up in different states, we even had vast differences in our education 30 years ago, it would mean we would have to look closely to the state we would move to to make final decisions. Both cities do have large ex-pat populations, so a kind of outside-school English life would actually be possible. I think as long as I find a riding school she wouldn’t mind which language to speak anyway,

Still very undecided what to do. It would be a logistic nightmare winding down a life of 19 years.

Maybe I just need to hide under the duvet until Brexit day and stop reading too many stories, all contradicting themselves.

hamburg is supposed to have an easier curriculum.
maybe do international school for a year with the view of switching to german system after that?
gives a chance to adjust and immerse.

First of all I want to say I'm really sorry you feel you have to leave the UK. It makes me ashamed to be British where once I felt it was something to be proud of. I'm going to go against the grain and say I would go for an international school. We are both British, but my dcs have grown up in France, Germany (Berlin), a stint in London (but at a French school) and now back in France - in a French school with a bilingual stream. My dcs (now 17 and 15) are British - though not quite like other British kids - and also quite French (but not entirely so). Your dd will be similar I imagine - quite German through having two German parents, but also quite British having lived all her life in Britain. Being properly bilingual is never a waste - after a lifetime in the French education system my dd is heading to the UK for university and she may eventually top everything off with a Masters in France - the point is she has the option. Whichever way you look at it your dd will be different to ordinary German kids who have grown up in Germany and only ever been to a German school, I'm sure she could fit in if that's what you decide to do but why not let her embrace her differences which may ultimately turn out to be her strengths? I wouldn't worry too much about people coming and going at an international school - she will be a newcomer herself to begin with and in any case she can make friends outside school if she enrols in other activities - you mentioned riding for instance. For what it's worth, I don't think moving my kids has harmed them in anyway, on the contrary I would say it has been the making of them and I think it will be the making of your dd too - enabling her to fully embrace her German side while still keeping a handle on her Britishness. And for the record, our four years in Berlin were some of the best of our lives - you are very lucky to be German. Good luck whatever you decide.

Really, LillianGish? French families looking to return to Paris due to Brexit are applying to French schools in far greater numbers than to ASP/ISP/BSP.

Lillian just want to add to your comment. As a remainder I am so sad that this is what you are having to think about OP. In your shoes I would also be looking at leaving. This country is in a sorry state and it's appalling that people who clearly contribute to our society are seriously thinking about leaving as a result of a vote founded on lies.

That doesn't surprise me in the least Maria, but those French children were more than likely in French schools in the UK or at least following the CNED. As I understand it the OP's daughter has never been to a German school.

Maybe, but what happens to a German national educated in English in Germany when she wants to go to university and get a job? She’ll be screwed. That is the reason driving French families to return to France from England - fear of their children’s future.

Why will she be screwed? She already speaks German and I'm guessing she'd be taught in German, at least in part at school (difficult to be specific without knowing which school we are talking about). It's no different to my own dcs who have been educated in the French system going to university in the UK. It just gives them more options - and I'm pretty sure that being an English speaker in Germany is more highly thought of than being a French speaker in the UK.

It is incorrect to extrapolate like that, LillianGish. British universities are open to holders of the French bac. Try getting into prépa with A-levels! Or even IB. In lots of countries, having a school leaving diploma that is not your national diploma is a serious barrier to entry to HE and the Labour market.

Is that you Bonsoir with a name change? I'm not an expert, but I'd be surprised if getting an IB at an international school in Germany would prevent you from going on to a German university (just as those getting an IB at the international school in Fontainebleau have no problems going on to HE in France).

Fontainebleau does the OIB, not the IB. The OIB is the regular French bac with added language/culture to make it a bilingual qualification.