Anyone moved back to the UK from France. Am I mad to even think about it?

[Mselsasser]

For the past year I’ve been seriously considering moving back to the UK with my children but am so worried that I am being selfish and naïve and it will be detrimental to us all.
I’ve been living in France for 12 years (4 years in Germany and Switzerland before that) with my DH (we are both English) and 2 DC (11 & 12 in Feb). DC were both born here and attend local French schools. DH has a good job that pays well. I’ve been a stay at home mum since we have lived in France.
We live in a lovely house, in a lovely safe village with easy access to all the great outdoor countryside and activities. The climate is great (usually) and all in all it has a lovely relaxed feel. The schools my children attend have a very good reputation and are just a short walk away, however the French schooling system is harsh with no extra support for those children who need it and with my inadequate level of French It is so frustrating and difficult to get my point across to the teachers let alone support with all the homework etc. DC1 isn’t struggling but I do think DC2 is a little. I think they might both manage better in their mother tongue. Clubs for the kids here are limited and I feel they are both missing out on going out and socialising with friends etc. They have a lot of interests but there just isn’t the opportunity for them.
I have been offered my old job back (in a different part of the country as previously) and as I’m now 48 I’d really like to take it. The job will be near my family, but after some research I’ve discovered that ALL secondary schools are oversubscribed so this may mean DC going to a school miles away from where we end up living. This worries me.
That isn’t all that worries me. I’m wondering if the enjoyment of working will quickly fade, and I will regret the decision to return. Also, DH will stay here as work in the UK for him just isn’t an option. We will have to sell the house so it will all feel very permanent once the decision has been made.
If anyone has any advice for me or any words of wisdom, I would appreciate that so much.
Oh and then there is Brexit...Ooh la la!

There are no hard and fast rules about equivalencies between the French bac grads and A-level grades. Each UK university and even department is entirely free to interpret French bac grades as it thinks fit. UCL, for example, thinks a French bac grade in an individual subject of 17/20 = A*.

King’s College London thinks AAA = 15/20 overall:

The Diplôme du Baccalauréat Général or the Option Internationale du Baccalauréat (OIB) are accepted for direct entry. The grades usually accepted vary from 12 to 16 overall. Where our online prospectus mentions compulsory or preferred individual subjects, we would expect applicants to be taking the most relevant Bac (for example, the Bac "S" for entry to science courses) and to achieve high marks (usually between 13 and 16) in specific subjects. Comparable entry requirements:

A*AA

Award of the Diplôme du Baccalauréat Général or the Option Internationale du Baccalauréat (OIB) with 16 overall

AAA

Award of the Diplôme du Baccalauréat Général or the Option Internationale du Baccalauréat (OIB) with 15 overall

I'm still a bit surprised that you say that your kids' vocabulary is far better in English than in French. We live in Belgium and only have English at home. The kids all go to school in French, and one child is in the first year of Dutch immersion (50% Dutch/50% French). I used to be concerned that their vocabulary was not as good as their peers, but teachers always tell me that they see no difference. DS1 in particular is in the top pupils in his class for French, despite being billingual. They were all born here and have grown up speaking/hearing both languages, and it doesn't at all seem to be a hindrance to them that they read, watch TV, listen to music etc in English at home. We do read in French at home though as well, and they do quite a lot of extra-curricular activities in French.....

Could it be that the area you're in is not used to billingual kids and the teachers perceive that the kids have certain differences vs. their French national classmates? In Belgium a huge chunk of the population grow up speaking at least 2 languages, so it's really not a big deal....

Perceptions of vocabulary development can vary quite significantly from school to school depending on the average pupil’s vocabulary development - which is largely determined by socioeconomic factors.

I’m sure that if I moved my DC from the current city centre private school to even a local state school, teachers’ perception of her vocabulary development would change. Why? Because we did the reverse move (state to private) and they had quite a lot of «articulacy» catch up to do.

@Mistigri why did Brexit persuade your DC not to go to UK uni ? What difference are they expecting it to make and why do they think a UK degree would hinder them ?

We are beginning to make preparations to move back to England next year after 13 years for me and 15 for dh in Belgium. I cannot wait to get home again. Whilst it is pleasant enough here, it is not where we wish to be once dh retires, and as we have a house in the UK to move back to, I hope to be there this time next year.

Ds chose to go to a UK university (prior to Brexit), but also chose to do his MA there, as did some of his friends who are from other EU member states, and had done their BAs at English universities as well.

lemonapple it is my understanding that eu students pay local university fees not overseas student fees. So there would be a huge cost difference when UK leaves EU. Currently in Scotland EU students pay no fees like Scottish students.

plaidlife - UK University tuition fees haven’t yet increased for EU students because the U.K. is still in the EU.

EU applications are holding up well and many EU students believe that the opportunity to study in the U.K. at a reasonable cost is not to be missed! Certainly, French undergraduate studies are across the board fairly terrible (even highly selective places such as Sciences Po mostly have random oddbods as teaching staff and no properly thought out curriculum) and the U.K. may well remain attractive even with higher fees.

But you can't compare French universities with UK ones without including the grandes écoles. That is where most of the top students go and where most of the money is spent.

I don’t exclude prépa from French undergraduate studies. But my point still holds. The intrinsic risks involved in prépa make prépa increasingly unattractive.

@lemonapple I think for DD it was about Brexit making the UK less attractive as a destination, plus the risk of some degrees no longer being recognised. Also from a practical point of view she wanted to delay specialisation, she'd have struggled to choose a UK uni course. She got 19.8 in her bac so she could have gone literally anywhere - and I think the fact that she didn't see the UK as attractive is rather sad.

Her brother despite identifying more as "British" than his sister also plans to stay in France. If he goes abroad it'll be to Germany not the UK.

19.8

@LillianGish To put it in perspective, a student in her class got 20.6

19.8 and 20.6 are both stratospherically good bac grades!

"Friends of mine have just returned to the UK with her older teens. They have seriously struggled for work since leaving lycee and didn't really see any other option."

That is interesting - is it the teens who have been unable to get work? is that a general problem for teens? I ask because I suppose you want to think ahead to the future for your dc beyond education (though obviously that is a long way off and things may have changed by then!)

One big issue is whether your dc would get a school place in the UK though, and it sounds as though that would be a problem. Can you find out if there are likely to be places? Or could you live a bit further away from work, closer to schools with places?

Finally, I know you say work for dh in UK isn't an option but are there any possibilities at all for that? Or could he combine working from home and being in Alsace for say 3 days a week?

I've been interested in the overall 'don't come back to the UK' vibe here - yes it has huge problems but there are also good things (but I haven't lived elsewhere so perhaps not the best judge..!)

Getting work in France is very difficult if you do not have strong social networks. All sorts of things in France operate largely under the radar: getting a spot in a desirable private school, getting a spot in a competitive prépa, getting good internships. All these things happen largely through networks.

That may be the case in Paris but in other departments none of those things rely on social networks. There are plenty of jobs round here, the main problem is matching the skills required with the qualifications of school leavers.