Anyone moved back to the UK from France. Am I mad to even think about it?

[Mselsasser]

For the past year I’ve been seriously considering moving back to the UK with my children but am so worried that I am being selfish and naïve and it will be detrimental to us all.
I’ve been living in France for 12 years (4 years in Germany and Switzerland before that) with my DH (we are both English) and 2 DC (11 & 12 in Feb). DC were both born here and attend local French schools. DH has a good job that pays well. I’ve been a stay at home mum since we have lived in France.
We live in a lovely house, in a lovely safe village with easy access to all the great outdoor countryside and activities. The climate is great (usually) and all in all it has a lovely relaxed feel. The schools my children attend have a very good reputation and are just a short walk away, however the French schooling system is harsh with no extra support for those children who need it and with my inadequate level of French It is so frustrating and difficult to get my point across to the teachers let alone support with all the homework etc. DC1 isn’t struggling but I do think DC2 is a little. I think they might both manage better in their mother tongue. Clubs for the kids here are limited and I feel they are both missing out on going out and socialising with friends etc. They have a lot of interests but there just isn’t the opportunity for them.
I have been offered my old job back (in a different part of the country as previously) and as I’m now 48 I’d really like to take it. The job will be near my family, but after some research I’ve discovered that ALL secondary schools are oversubscribed so this may mean DC going to a school miles away from where we end up living. This worries me.
That isn’t all that worries me. I’m wondering if the enjoyment of working will quickly fade, and I will regret the decision to return. Also, DH will stay here as work in the UK for him just isn’t an option. We will have to sell the house so it will all feel very permanent once the decision has been made.
If anyone has any advice for me or any words of wisdom, I would appreciate that so much.
Oh and then there is Brexit...Ooh la la!

I would stay where you are. The UK is going to shit. Also, could you not improve your own French language skills if you need to communicate with their teachers?

I understand what you are saying. We are in France too. I go through periods of loving life here and periods of wanting to give up and go home!!

Dd is in 5eme and I often feel like I am failing her as I find the system bewildering at times and where I think I would have a better idea how to help if we were in the UK , here we are both winging it a lot of the time.

That said my dd would be heart broken to leave. She is as much French as she is English, her life and friends are here.

Have you tried talking to the school? I am guessing your dc are 6eme? My French isn't great and I cringe when I need to speak to the teachers as I know I don't have the variation I have in English so I come across as very blunt. However dds teachers have been fantastic and very patient when I have been to parents evening or needed to talk about something with them?

We are also considering a tutor and that might be an option for you too? I think it's a lot more common here that you realise people just don't really talk about it (I teach English and I sometimes prepare lycée students and they usually have other tutors too) I know that pp were surprised that their school language is not as strong as their home language but it has definitely shown since dd started college. Last month she had a German test where she had to translate a text. One of the words was attic. She knew it in German and English but not French so had to translate to the 'space between the ceiling and roof'

Also do you have a friend who can come with you to school and translate if you are not confident? I wonder if you are in a similar area to us as many of my French friends work in Switzerland and speak fluent English and are always happy to help.

With Brexit on the horizon I wouldn't do anything yet anyway, can you afford to give it a little time and see if things get better?

Hi. Another Englush person in France here. I understand fully what you mean about the school system in France. The style really makes me nervous for when my 2 start secondary. Saying that, I would not go back. Especially now.
I think the key to your worries may be the integration, probably made more evident because you live in a village? I live on the outskirts of a city, but still far enough away to have space and a forest nearby. Here there is an excellent choice of activities. As a result the kids have lots of socialising time. Have you considered a move within France?
To help your french, could you invite more other mums for coffee and play dates? That has helped my French no end.

You've lived in another country for TWELVE years and still have trouble communicating in the language there?

Wow, I thank everyone for all your comments. I’ve read them all with interest and have been brought back down to earth with a massive bump! It’s good to get opinions other than from family who want me back in the UK or DH who tells me I should go because he sees me unhappy here.

Hundredmiles I agree that probably the main reason I want to return to the UK is the language barrier and you are correct, I have definitely not integrated myself into the “French” community, which I now regret. I live in Alsace on the border with Germany and Switzerland. The locals speak either Elsässerditsch or Schweizerdeutsch both weird German dialects but very different and in my experience they don’t like to speak High German or French. Many of the French here (including our friends and a couple of the DC’s teachers) speak English as do the Swiss. I speak High German at a decent level so it’s been easy for me to neglect French. I can read and write within reason and communicate verbally when I absolutely have to but feel very uncomfortable and lack confidence in this area and just cannot imagine that I’ll ever be fluent. Let alone give the necessary support with DC’s exams.

Both DC’s are fluent in French yes, totally bilingual for sure, but their vocabulary is much weaker in comparison to their peers. We speak only English at home and most of their screen time is in English and they read mostly in French. Just to further confuse things my eldest spent his first 8 years of schooling in the bilingual (French/German) system, however interestingly, he claims he can’t speak German.

I have hired a tutor for both DC’s who is absolutely brilliant and I suppose It would definitely be an option (if we could afford it) to hire her for more hours per week when necessary. I’ve signed my eldest up for the 'devoirs faits' too so maybe I’m worrying prematurely in that area. `

sagelynodding I think I’ll try and speak (in my appalling French) with the teachers. Can I ask, in your school, are there any English children?

Mondaytired I take your point. I loved my job, I would love to return. you are right, things will have changed. What would I do if I didn’t enjoy it again after uprooting everyone? I have a very specialised job and there are no opportunities within commuting distance in France. Switzerland maybe, there is currently an ongoing battle to get me a permit, which I can’t see coming through if I’m honest with myself.

Anyway this has been a very long post, my apologies. I think then, for now I have concluded that I need to hang on in there don’t I and get some French lessons!

I live in Belgium with 3 dc. I wouldn't move back to UK with Brexit tbh. The Belgian schooling system is v similar to French and yes it is harsh and tough. My eldest is not doing v well (16), other 2 are great. But I am not sure he would do well in English system either ..... as doesn't do any / little work! Brexit is a nightmare and I personally don't want to live in UK and not be part of Europe.

Should add my kids are bilingual french/English but their mother tongue is English but they would seriously struggle to do GCSEs in English I think. And culture shock! For you, I would take intensive french classes to get confident in the language. And maybe a french tutor if the children have difficulties. But the grass is not greener in the Uk I think !

Is there any aspect of your job that you could do remotely? Fly home once every couple of months for meetings? Use Skype etc. Increasingly your location isn't an issue particularly for professional roles. At what point would the dc have the right to French citizenship? Could you encourage the dc to watch films they are already familiar with in French more? Mine sometimes watch Harry Potter in German, so when the call comes they will know how to say Muggle in German.

I wouldn’t move back. You’ll find everything has changed, the NHS is broken, ambulance services are even more broken, austerity has hit hard, homelessness is massive up (and back to being very visible), police forces are run on a shoestring and barely investigate crimes (but still useful to get a crime number for the insurance), and schools have zero money and have been pared down to the bone.

And if you want to help improve their language I think you need to reset everything in the house to French by default. Netflix, all electronics, radio stations, everything. The level of English at home seems to be blocking progress, and it’ll help you improve too.

You will find things a lot worse than when you left. The grass is always greener. In your shoes I'd stay, work on my French and look for employment there. I hope you find happiness whatever you choose.

I agree putting tv, films and radio into French will make a difference.

The other thing that could make a massive difference to you is a job, even a small part time one.

I am always surprised by the bashing the French Education system gets on here. I think it is great and produces young people with a far better level of education than they would get elsewhere.

What worked for us was putting everything into Spanish with English subtitles if needed on TV, making sure radio was in Spanish ensuring I was getting at least two Spanish lessons a week, ideally one in a group setting. We also talked to our dc in Spanish, albeit very badly! After a while dc can correct and help you. Our Spanish speaking friends pushed us to practice for at least part of any meal with them. Yes it was embarrassing because they all had fluent English but longer term living in the country unable to communicate was more embarrassing. Good luck.

I lived in the back of beyond in Alsace but it was only/mainly the older people who still spoke the local dialects. Very jealous though OP I'd rather be back there!

Hi, another English person in France.

I sympathise with the pull towards home.

Very sad to see so many people saying that England is not a good place in which to live.

I realise that public services have been butchered - deliberately, IME, by ideologically motivated policy, so as better to convince the electorate they need selling off.

Really want to believe it's still possible to fight to protect health, education & social care.

I have a similar decision to make, although I'm younger. Despite speaking good French, having qualifications, skills & experience, the chances of me ever having a fulfilling career here are slim to none, unless I were to start from scratch. Not appealing as we want to start a family & I'd like to have options after mat leave. Another consideration is time with extended family. Holidays don't beat regular meetups for me.

It always seems to be the Mum sacrificing her personal and/or professional fulfillment for the family gain. No judgement, just an observation.

Good luck with your decision making. Hope you find joy.

Shouldwestay I couldn't do my job remotely, I wish I could, that would be a game changer. I will have to re think the job side, and look for alternatives I think. I can apply for french citizenship for my DC's once they reach 13 I believe as long as they have not been out of the country for longer than 6 months...which is another reason for me regret taking them to the UK.

Chocolala.. I certainly had no idea things were that bad. Visiting for a couple of weeks at a time doesn't give a real picture I guess.
The idea of all electronics in French is good and appeals to me very much. I have done it before but it didn't last long. I know my DC's will fight it as will DH . I think I'll just have to put my foot down.

BlamchM I thought it would just be the older generation but no, not here. It's very much alive and kicking with most the locals my age. I suppose to some that could be classed as the older generation.

Langmay Well that is exactly how I feel. There may be a job opportunity for me in Switzerland but I doubt that I will ever have a fulfilling career again if I search in France. Friends of mine have just returned to the UK with her older teens. They have seriously struggled for work since leaving lycee and didn't really see any other option.

That has intrigued me! I'm from a city just outside the area but grew up there before moving to the UK. Alsatian was used almost exclusively by the eldest villagers or sometimes by the younger ones but usually around people they viewed with suspicion like from cities or towns. I thought it was dying out as we all just spoke French but there must've been a revival in the last few years.

I agree with the person who suggested a move within France. I must say I think Alsace with its very specific language situation must be one of the hardest areas of France to try and integrate into. I would look at moving to a more urban area where there will also be more work and socialization opportunities.

I also wonder if a move within France would help, although it might be out of the frying pan into the fire especially if you are reasonably happy with their current school. My best friend moved north (Dunkerque area) and has found it much easier to integrate than further south.

I don't mind the French secondary system - though was lucky with collège (small state school with good teachers) and my kids are academically able so lycée has not been too painful. Oldest chose to stay in France for HE due partly to brexit.

You might find that going back to the UK with secondary age kids is quite hard work - quite apart from the language and GCSEs, English schools don't seem to be very happy places (at least seen through the mumsnet filter).

My opinion would be do not even think to move away until they have French nationality.

Yes, switch all media and electronics to French, and you’d be amazed also how much you can improve by regularly reading in French (can be just novels from your local library).

You say you have no job prospects, but have you actually signed on at the Pole emploi. Once you are within any company it’s easier to move up. Consider something in tourism.

You may not love it, but your region is incredible, many people would long to have that access to France, Germany and Switerland, the countryside and snow, ski stations.

The people above who are criticising for not speaking French / being French enough, to properly communicate with the teachers, are naive and probably have no experience of living in France as a non-French person.

Definitely carry on with a tutor or get a new one, the French curriculum is so standardized that a young tutor can easily teach it : look for someone pedagogic who has recently got their bac with mention TB.

Good luck with your way forward, however moving to England at this stage seems unfeasible unless you and DH both want to and can work there.

What do your kids think about their school? I ask because my kids have been entirely schooled in the French system - to DH and I it appears utterly brutal at secondary level, but my DCs love it - they know nothing else. They accept the long hours, they don't expect to be praised, (we give them lots of praise and encouragement at home to make up for it), they accept there's not much time to squeeze in any extra-curricular stuff, in short they fit in and it is what they are used to. Whatever you do don't reduce the amount of English you speak at home - you want them to be properly bilingual so the pressure is on you to keep up the English. If you keep up both languages with the German as well then they will truly have options when they finish school. My DD is currently applying to British universities who recognise that the French Bac is tough test (AAA equates to 14 in the Bac). If your DCs are truly struggling then that's a different matter, but don't pull them out because it seems tough in comparison with your own experience of school - this is their normal and they may even be enjoying it. You needn't rule out moving back the UK one day, but let your DCs have this massive opportunity first. Your post resonated so much with me (I even have a DS who spoke German before French, but now claims to have forgotten it all!) - what you need is a fellow expat so you can roll your eyes at the French system together.

mselsasser sorry, I didn't see you had asked me a question! Yes, I'm in the south of France and there are a few British children in each year group. I have one in one of my classes this year, but I have had more in the past.
It's a totally different part of France though!

Are there English kids in your children's classes? (This can delay progress with French).

I recommend encouraging reading in a French but disagree with more French in the home. It's not necessary and they need exposure to English to be properly bilingual. We have never used French with the children at home, although everyone in the family is bilingual, and they have no issues with French at all (DD even got 20 in her French baccalauréat paper lol).

Lilliangish I had no idea about the 14/AAA equivalent - really? surprises me having had one child do her bac last year and one currently in 1ère - but have never looked into it because Brexit ended their interest in UK unis.

I was surprised too Mistigri - and also strangely reassured that British universities could appreciate what a massive slog the Bac is compared to three A levels. I'm not suggesting A levels are easy, just that it is easier to shine when you are only judged on your three best subjects.