most inclusive European country for people with disabilities

[catinasplashofsunshine]

Does anyone have an opinion or live in a European country they've noticed is really forward thinking on disability rights and inclusion (in terms of education, employment, infrastructure, society in general, or just one element)?

I live in Germany and am nearly at the end of a 3 year course leading to an impossible to translate qualification, but essentially all about supporting anyone whose needs exclude them from mainstream society (so effectively this boils down to mainly people with disabilities, but also asylum seekers and to a lesser extent young people who've fallen through the social net due to poverty, parental addiction and family breakdown etc)

We're in Bavaria and aware of being very behind on inclusion (still lots of big institutions, over 75% of children with even mild learning disabilities are in special schools).

We have to nominate destinations for a 5 day study trip next year. I wanted to suggest places in the UK but Brexit may make that problematic especially as we have 2 Russians on the course.

Does anyone live / has lived in a country or state, or city, that might be a good place to visit to see how inclusion is being achieved better?

Bit of an off the wall question but maybe someone has an idea?

• I'm nearly at the end of the first year, not nearly at the end sadly - bit of wishful thinking there, there are far too many exams and essays...

Sorry, no experience but just stumbled over this report, which you might know already!?
www.european-agency.org/data/cross-country-report

Maybe it's useful...

I'm living in Bavaria and was coming on to say certainly not here! But I see you are already well aware of that. I have also lived in Switzerland and Italy and would steer clear of those too. Frankly I think Britain is second to none in terms of disability inclusion.

Sorry not to be more help. I'm interested in what others come back with though.

Scandi countries are supposed to be very forward thinking

How exactly would Brexit make it difficult for you to visit the UK?

Honestly I would say the UK. That's not to say we're perfect of course but the difference between here and other European countries I've live in is marked.

If the UK is definitely out (not sure I fully understood why!) then maybe the Netherlands or a Scandinavian country?

I find Italy is excellent as a tourist, the U.K. not so much

Russians need a visa because Uk is not schengen area.

Try scandi countries. But Uk is best having lived in both. and you should be able to get a visa for the Russians - you just need to have an invite issued from someone like a higher education institution.

I say the UK too.

Dutch museums and attractions are generally ok as is public transport, but just the streets are a nightmare. Cobbles, no dropped curbs, bicycles everywhere. Very few restaurants or hotels have proper disabled access.

Scheveningen seaside town is good though. They have beach wheelchairs and accessible beach, including long concrete slopes over the sand down to the sea. Some disabled people use tricycles that can get around because bike paths are good, but bike storage facilities haven't kept up.

For inclusion, I don't know about learning disabilites. They're pretty good at greeting asylum seekers, but most end up ghettoised and the Netherlands is really poorly integrated.

Finland is good, according to what I've heard. Therapeutic support is easier to access and more comprehensive than in the UK, and respite for carers ditto. Afaik the fact that they have a specific disability inclusion policy helps, as it requires the rights of people with disabilities to have equality of opportunity to be taken into account in terms of planning and policy ie it codifies the social model of disability.

Have you included invisible disabilities in your remit? ASD, ADHD ,Dyspraxia, Dyslexia, Sensory Processing etc. etc. The provision for these in the UK is patchy to say the least.

and to a lesser extent young people who've fallen through the social net
www.livesinthebalance.org/

Don't know anywhere that employs these strategies, but it may help your coursework if you're asked to suggest different approaches.

I wish we could go to the UK, especially as I have some potential contacts as does one of the course leaders. The two Russians aren't really Russian but from Belarus and Georgia and both are absolutely sure they'll have trouble travelling to the UK and that it will be an unwelcome amount of hassle, expense and uncertainty to get visas when we don't have to visit the UK and could easily stay within the Schengen area. It seems unfair to inflict the expense and stress on them.

The trip won't actually take place til this time next year, and a few Germans in the class are sceptical about going to the UK after Brexit has happened too and expect it to be a hassle.

Scandinavian countries were suggested by others today, though we're a bit wolly on exactly where and why, it's just a general stereotype that they'll be progressive So Finland is worth looking into.

The Netherlands has been suggested by others too, so worth thinking about.

Woolley not wolly

I think your concerns about the UK are ridiculous. A lot of people are telling you that the UK is the best place for your remit and you're choosing to ignore them. For what it's worth, my DP is disabled and we have travelled to some of the places that have been suggested on here (Italy, Scandinavia) and he has really struggled compared to the care he gets at home.

LARLAR how is it ridiculous to be concerned that people from Belarus and Georgia who have Schengen area visas won't be able to get into the UK without going through a visa process? They will need visas. I can't control that and me not giving a shit about it wouldn't mean we as a group could go to the UK without visas.

The concerns of my German classmates aren't my concerns and I can't control them either. Even though Germans almost certainly won't need a visa boarder control might be more hassle than going anywhere else in the EU. If that puts people off it's not under my control.

I went to Russia a few years ago. I had to get a Visa. It really isn't a huge issue.

What about Iceland? Schengen area, good poverty reduction. Although they have 'eradicated' Downs syndrome which is another conversation.

In terms of disabilities you can't beat America and the disabilities Act. It's an amazing piece of legislation and it's why inclusion is done so well at the vast majority of schools.

I would also say America is much more supportive of immigrants than you would believe reading the press. There has been an absolute outcry over children being separated from their parents while being interned.

There has been an absolute outcry over children being separated from their parents while being interned.

I LOVE the idea that the outcry is the thing to focus on, rather than the detention of small children separate to their parents. Oh and let's not forget the 1.5 - 2 MILLION homeless people, many of whom (estimated 40%) have disabilities.

America is certainly a land of contrasts... I was reading about Morgan's Wonderland the other day, but it's in Texas ... All the contrasts anyone needs right there.

America isn't an option for this trip, too far, we'd all need visas, transport would be prohibitively expensive.

Iceland, hmm. That could be interesting.

We've had the eradication of genetic disabilities controversy as a topic and doubtless it will keep coming up. Abortion is illegal in Bavaria, to give it another twist. In my actual job half my clients have downs, but as we're "severe and complex" disabilities where I am they all have downs plus something else - downs plus autism is very common and sometimes very difficult for the affected person to live with. All my clients are over 35 and downs plus dementia in people in their 40s is heartbreakingly frequent. Downs on its own doesn't seem that disabling comparatively speaking and in my world of work I've come to view people who "only" have downs as highly competent.

Will look into Iceland. Finland also looks very interesting.

Iceland hasn't "eradicated" downs syndrome, it's not inherited. They just have a small population so when a high percentage of couples choose to terminate (as is the case in most countries where testing is available and abortion is legal) it's more likely to reach 100% than other places. It's not like it's illegal to keep a baby with downs syndrome.

I live in Baden-Württemburg and our provision seems pretty good here. There are a few supermarkets and bakeries staffed mainly by people with learning disabilities and there are lots of schools and daytime care facilities for adults and children. I don't know how integration is into mainstream schooling etc but I know people here who have disabled children who are happy with the provision.

Wheelchair access seems to be hit and miss. They are constantly upgrading all of the tram access and phasing out the old ones with steps. Most public buildings have lifts and ramps which don't look too steep, but some places aren't really built for it and some ramps seem better designed for bikes than wheelchairs.

Bertie I assumed MrsTerry wrote "eradicated" in inverted comments for the reason you mention.

Thanks for the Baden-Wurttemberg tip, I've also heard Saarland has no special schools any more, staying within Germany could certainly be an option.

I am amazed you have written off the UK because of Brexit and are considering Iceland which is not in the EU

I am amazed you don't know that Iceland is a member of the Schengen area
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations

What's your agenda LARLAR ?

I'm just looking for a practical option, the UK will require visas for two of our classmates and Iceland wouldn't.