Moving to France - school age children who don't speak French

[Mrsmoo28]

So, we're getting disillusioned with life in the UK. You've heard it before, I guess . We're worried about loss of family values, cost of further education, house prices etc etc.
We've sold our house and can't find an alternative after looking++. We could afford to rent / buy a good property in France and we could afford not not work for a year or so or could return home to contract to bring money in whilst we learnt the language / established longer term plans. We have 2 children 7 and 6 who are settled at an outstanding primary and are very bright.
DH and I speak minimal French but are willing to learn. We'd be thinking of putting the children in a French school.
We have had an itch pre and post children but don't want to scratch it to the detriment of our little people.
Thoughts please?
Positives and negatives, realities and correct/incorrect stereotypes welcome.
Thanks

I don't think you can assume children in the long run will be fine. It's an unknown and if it turns out great, you're responsible for the decision to move, if it turns out a disaster, you're also responsible for the decision.

Why would children have to learn Dutch in Belgium? That shows the unfamiliarity.

That's quite funny. Belgium is a bilingual country (officially trilingual but German isn't relevant to this discussion) and children in one language school are expected to study the second language at school. So in a French speaking school in Belgium the child will then learn Dutch as a second language. I have personal experience of schools in Belgium so it's not me who is unfamiliar with the system!

In the French community schools in Belgium, in Wallonia, you must learn Dutch in p5 and p6, but not if you are are new to Belgium, not if you are temporarily in Belgium, so not every child in Wallonia learns Dutch in the narrow period where it is normally obligatory. In Brussels, slightly different rule in French community schools, Dutch from p3 to s4, again not for those new to Belgium and not for those temporarily in Belgium, for those children, Dutch can be optional.

Therefore it s not the case children in public schools in Belgium must learn Dutch. It depends on region, on language community, on age, on status.

The OP isn't talking about a temporary move though is she? But you feel free to keep making irrelevant arguments for the sake of it if you like.

@spanishwife
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/romanian
"Romanian
(also Rumanian)"

I spent 23 years with one, two or three children in the Belgian system which I believe is very similar to the French system. I hated it - no creativity, too much learning by rote, too much discouragement rather than encouragement, constant testing, exams twice a year, repeating years (one of my friends has just told me her son passed the year but a third of them are retaking the whole year!). DS1 ended up having a breakdown and has had MH issues ever since. DD home schooled for the last two years. I have never been so relieved in my life as when she stopped going to school and I had no problems helping her in any of her classes. All three of my dcs have ended up in the UK despite having never ever lived there before university.

There are things I love about living this side of the Channel. However, as others have said, I think you need to take those rose tinted glasses off.

MyOtherProfile, dnephew went to school in Mons. He didn’t have to learn Dutch. They could choose between Dutch and English. They all chose English. And while it may appear irrelevant, OP might decide to look into Belgium as an alternative and then it’s best to have the information already.

There's a double taxation agreement, you will not be taxed twice.

Also not true that you have to be tax resident in France for school/healthcare. You just have to be resident.

More than six months a year in country, resident or not, you fill in a tax return.

School system is excellent, at that age they'll pick it up quickly. It's harder for you but you'll learn enough to get by well and if you stay a long time or really throw yourself into it, you'll get to very capable.

Pound is weak at moment against euro, so your currency power is down.

I'd recommend renting first (I really wanted to buy immediately), you get a feel for a place and areas, then can make a much better decision re buying somewhere. If I had bought straight away I dread to think what mistakes I would have made/opportunities I would have missed. Plus buying once you have some experience of the language and the system is much more sensible.

If you want to, just to be safe, move before certain dates too and get set up with a place to live and the paperwork for it, or your freedom to just move here may change.

I think it's a fantastic idea.

I would say that Scotland is a wonderful place too, people, culture, country, all very different to rest of UK, lovely property and may be getting ahead with kids age, but free university too.

Where do you live in the UK, op. There are other parts of the UK.

I wouldn’t want to put my children through the French secondary system. You think A levels are brutal? Try the baccalaureate

It's not the content (mostly pretty basic) but the number of subjects and the hours, and even those are manageable if you steer clear of the specialist language options and don't take extra courses like Latin.

All change for the 2018 lycée intake anyway. And at least with the bac you just have to pass, because your place in higher education is guaranteed by that point - no system of conditional offers that makes A levels so stressful.

Mistigri - the reforms under way to the bac and Parcoursup are all about ending the automatic entitlement to university enrolment of holders of the bac. France is moving to a selective university entrance system, albeit with offers on actual rather than conditional grades.

User: not really. I'm not sure you've understood the system properly. There is no grade conditionality with parcoursup (or with APB, the previous system) - all offers are based on the students' coursework marks and are unconditional except insofar as they require a bac pass. This is true even of the most selective courses - my DD is going to Macron's alma mater next year and she doesn't have to get any specific grades as long as she gets more than 50%.

The conditionality is all around "competences" and the conditions imposed have nothing to do with your bac results.

Mistigri - I have understood the system perfectly. I did not claim in my previous post that there was any conditionality on bac grades, either past or present. In the future of the new bac, however, it will not suffice to pass the bac (>10/20) to gain a place at university in France. Pupils will apply with their bac grades (except for philosophy and the grand oral) and be awarded places on the basis of the quality of their dossier. No more guaranteed places with a 10/20.

The Sciences Po admissioms procédure is also being reviewed and the competitive exam/dossier/interview procedure may well change significantly. The selection procedure for medicine is also being changed, marginally this year but much bigger changes are afoot.

These things will happen very gradually though user - there is no political will for a move to a UK-type system. And the new procedures do not appear to be working very effectively for the selective part of the French higher education system.

Try reading some blogs of expats living in France OP. WWW.LOSTINLYON.COM is very good. I would also add that it depends very much on whether you will be in a rural area or a city. The difference in France is huge, much more so than UK.

No, they are going to happen very suddenly, with no warning, in the way changes were implemented to Parcoursup this year and the way a few medical faculties announced there would be no second chance at PACES. The reformed bac ie for pupils leaving school in 2021 will go hand in hand with an almost fully selective university entrance system.

Anyone in Lorraine?

From personal experience, the children will be fine! It’s the adults who will have more problems.

Will you have to work in French? If the plan is to return to the UK to contract then presumably only one of you can do this at a time. The comments on tax above aren’t quite right. If you are resident in France, yes you will have to pay tax in France on your UK-source income, but you should receive a credit for the U.K. tax paid.

It’s a rubbish time to do it from a financial POV as sterling has tanked, but it couldn’t come at a better time from the POV of your DC’s education