Which passports should children have?

[allegretto]

Hi. My children were all born in Italy and have dual British / Italian nationality (I think!) DS1 has an Italian passport. The youngest two don't have passports and I don't know which to get! Is it a disadvantage for them to get British only? Do they need to get both? Should I be taking Brexit into account? (People keep telling me I should get the UK ones while I can - but surely that won't change?) I am a UK citizen in the process of applying for dual citizenship and DH is Italian btw. Help!

The new Italian ID cards already exist and have done for a few years, but it does depend how much money individual councils have. I have a paper one, DP had an electronic one but when he lost it and had to renew we'd moved house and the local council only had paper ones available. When we did DD's they didn't even give us the plastic cover!

cannot
I can order one but I was not issued with one
I have never ordered one so I do not have one
they were not standard when I was born

unless you're using Greek or Italian ones
Exactly! I'm using an Italian one - looks a bit like I made it myself. I don't think id cards will become obsolete but I do think there will be a crackdown and only digital cards with enhanced security will be allowed.

Melassa - my council brought them in and then went back to the paper ones again!

apparently the machines that made the electronic ones broke and no one could afford to repair them. This happened in Rome, although they may have shelled out for the repair guy by now. Up north the situation is more dire! At some point I fully expect them to run out of paper...

I don't think this applies to Italy but It may be something to consider. My DGS is British born with one UK and one Greek parent. He qualifies for both passports but he does not have a Greek one as they don't want him to be conscripted into the Greek army for national service/war. He has not been registered with the Greek authorities and was born in UK.

Melassa you are right. Italy attempted to introduce credit card sized ID cards in a few municipalities but quickly abandoned them in those municipalities and returned to WW2 design. However, Italy now has a "real new" ID card which should this time go countrywide, ha the optimist in me! These ID cards are up with the rest of EU chipped ID cards now in terms of technology and safety features.

There is no plan for a crackdown on Italian, Greek, Bulgarian, Cypriot ID cards however which are the least secure. EU/EEA/Switzerland group of 32 countries are obliged and will continue to be obliged to accept the national ID cards of member states. It's enshrined in the freedom of movement rights and refusal to accept another country's ID cards is against EU law. So border authorities live with the situation.

The new new Italian ID card was first issued in September 2016 and due to be rolled out everywhere by 2018.... as stated on the website of the company producing them. The other "new" type Italian ID card came out maybe 3 years ago and quickly became obsolete and abandoned, though those cards issued remain valid (don't quote me on that timetable, too lazy to look up exact date). It looks like the brown or blue or ?green Italian paper card should be gone by 2028.

www.gemalto.com/govt/customer-cases/new-national-identity-card-for-italy

It's kind of a pinky brown colour, very vintage! I quite like the paper, it's printed in relief and nice to touch, but then I do like vintage typography .

No conscription/national service left in Italy any more, it was abandoned a few years ago, so that's no longer an issue.

Ha - £46 for a child's passport! Yes maybe if you live in the UK. But us people living outside the UK get royally fleeced. DS2's 2nd child passport just cost us £72.86!

Amyboo - yes, the courier charges really hike it up and it's ridiculous that they won't agree to send them back together and save on costs. We have decided on getting Italian passports for that reason.

I'm not sure people are aware of the real cost of making a passport. The cost of a child's passport exceeds £46 and is subsidised by adult passport costs. The paper and technology placed inside the paper costs money.

As for courier costs, the UK government makes no profit from it, those are the costs for such a courier service.

As for sending back any required documents such as parents' birth certificates of translations of overseas birth certificates, no they cannot be sent back with the new passport for security reasons! It's not ridiculous, it is common sense.

The alternative to the courier system is to return to UK passports being issued via embassies around the world. That involves courier costs for mass transit of empty passports and it was decided that it was becoming too risky to continue with transporting such empty passports all over the world and that it is better to courier single made up passports rather than large batches of empty passports. More countries are moving over to centralized systems of overseas passport issues because now passports are more valuable and it means securing them when being in transit.

The 2 least secure ID cards in the EU are issued in countries with issuing posts into the 1000s. Their passports fair little better. The most secure ones in terms of misuse are from countries with smaller numbers of issuing posts.

There really is no-one making a profit from passport issue, other than the courier companies.

An adult UK passport is less than 8 pounds a year. A child UK passport is less than 5 pounds a year.

Any EU passport which costs less than 50 euro is being issued at a loss.

You guys don't want to know how much an Australian passport costs... especially if you need to get it from within the UK.

no they cannot be sent back with the new passport for security reasons! It's not ridiculous, it is common sense
This isn't what I was suggesting . I am applying for 3 passports - why can't they be sent together if it's a secure service?

Now that would sound a good idea, you could suggest it to IPS about passports to the same address being combined for courier service. I suspect the response might be that due to the "real" value of these passports, that it is too insecure to send together. A family of passports stolen in transit is worth far more on the black market than 3 passports separately stolen. Lookalikes is the biggest form of passport abuse and to get 3 together, well that would be the false passport suppliers' dream catch.

I've already asked them! They said they might be processed by different people so they couldn't guarantee they would stay together to be sent off- basically too much hassle for them!

44 euros for a passport here although there doesn't seem to be a lower price for a child's passport which I thought there was. Cheaper to get DD an identity card but with Brexit I don't know if they'll still be accepting them once its done.

I would not hesitate over buying a national ID card if you are entitled to one from the 28 out of 32 EU/EEA/CHE countries that issue them (think it's UK, Denmark, Liechtenstein, Switzerland left which don't have national ID cards). Brexit may well now be delayed and even if and when it happens, there is no reason why the UK cannot continue to accept national ID cards from these countries even if freedom of movement is removed. These ID cards will continue to be acceptable travel documents for the remaining 31 countries.

The UK travel documents issued to those UK residents who cannot or refuse to obtain their national passports - these are nearly always failed asylum seekers given humanitarian protection or leave outside the immigration rules - can buy black coloured travel documents which are valid for travel around the world but have greater need for visas due to the status of these people. The adult cost is £234 I think and the child cost is about half that. I was told these prices reflect the real cost of issue of the travel document, not just the paper document but the human resources and building costs, whereas the cost of UK passports reflect the cost of the government buying the documents off the company which produces the blank documents. It's the same company which produces UK bank notes.

UK is the place we travel to the most so just the possibility it might not be accepted makes it not worth it right now (need to do DD's passport now because it went old in February). Also annoyingly adult ID cards cost more than the passports.

We all have national ID cards anyway as you need to use them a lot in Italy just for day to day stuff and they don't cost much - 5 euros, I think? I want passports for everyone to though just in case we win a holiday to New York or something!

5 euros is a great price!

We have non-photo ID cards which are used regularly for accessing health care etc. but they're free.

Natsku ID cards to the UK will remain 99% certain until at least 2021 and possibly longer if there is a change. Just how long are your ID cards in length and just how much do they cost?

New issue Italian ID cards now cost 16.79 according to official link. I don't know whether municipalities are allowed to add a small admin charge on top.

In our country, municipalities can add admin fees so an ID card for +12 years costs between 20 euro and 30 euro. In our town it's 25 euro.

They cost 50 euros and last 5 years so passports are 6 euros cheaper for the same length of time.

I am normally an optimist but the Election/referendum upsets have focused my mind.
The world has been going through and has welcomed Globalisation however recently many are saying this may have gone too far.
Globalisation meant more open borders and easier travel (I am ignoring the difficult issues around refugees and immigration)
It may be the world will rethink Globalisation and border entry requirements might change.
My pessimism would make ME get as many travel documents/ID cards/Passports for myself and my family.
The world is changing and perhaps not in the way we expect.