Want to move to UAE but something bothering me...

[FortyCoats]

Hi,

We're seriously considering a move to Dubai or Abu Dhabi next year. Job prospects in our field are great, they're beautiful cities, lots of expat community events/clubs etc, lovely weather, great nightlife, outdoor activities. Basically loads of pros.

We've read up on the laws and are happy we can live with them, they're nowhere near as strict as some people have made out when trying to scare us off the idea. I have one problem though...

We have friends over there and during a Skype discussion the other evening he mentioned a few things that made me sad and angry. Apparently if I wear standing in a queue in a shop with several different race people before me, I would be called to the front of the line because I'm white. Also, where he lives, the houses all have separate accommodation for maids comprising of a small room and bathroom which have no access to the house. That part doesn't bother me as I'd never have it in me to employ a maid but the shop things bothers me immensely.

Anyone living there know if this is true and if so would I be frowned upon for politely declining the offer to jump the queue?

I really can't go if this is the case so DH would have to go alone.

I just said have a nice night forgetting that my watch is on Uk time, not local time, and the night is almost over in the Uk.

Primal Lass, Weebirdie is giving the situation as per the laws of the land, however the reality is much different and more in line with your Mums experience even today.

Particularly in the summer months when families leave for 8 or 9 weeks at a time and the housemaid is sitting in a big house twiddling her thumbs, and the neighbour's house or dogs or cats might need looking after, and the housemaid is delighted to make some extra cash, it happens all the time.

ML - why cant the maid sit in the house twiddling her thumbs because its a quiet time at work? Or be given a ticket and paid leave every year so they can go home if thats what they want to do. And if they don't want to go home then give them local leave?

Why is putting them at risk of prosecution preferable?

Why not pay a maid enough to begin with so she doesn't have to make her wages up to a decent amount by being at risk?

I lived in Dubai and Abu Dhabi and I found it increasingly intolerable the longer I stayed there.

Not all maids rooms are bigger than a box room you'd give an au pair. Every apartment I lived in had windowless holes as maids rooms, and I didn't live in shitty apartments, far, far from it.

I didn't have a maid but most of the people I was friends with didn't have miss either - cleaners occasionally was the preferred choice. The people I knew who had a maid would tell your they loved their maid, that their maid was their equal, part of their family etc etc. yet the maid wouldn't be living in one of the spare rooms. The maid would be in the windowless hole, with one day off a week and their passport kept in madam's safe. I did view a few villas with outside maids rooms but they were always far from salubrious.

I loved the lifestyle there but hated the place. Glossy on the surface and a hypocritical mass of contradictions and questionable morals underneath. I loved living on the beach, but hated the racism and the way that people would happily spout extremely racist views as if it was normal. I'd hate driving to work down the extremely dangerous roads knowing that I'd pass signs to "labour camps" signposting the way to the hideous hovels that the Pakistani and Indian men would live in.

I hated being cheated by estate agents, the energy company, the TV/internet company. The awful sexism I encountered at the initial local company I worked for and the subsequent Iranian company I worked for. I was a senior member of staff yet there were all sorts of little prejudices, from not getting the school fees on time ("woman get fees at END of year, man get fees before term" etc) Most of all I hated the apologists, the people who pretended it was all ok, that it wasn't a grossly unfair society, that it wasn't actually downright dangerous there, that the jails weren't full of women whose sole crime was debt, or pregnancy, or about to be deported because their husband has falsely accused them of adultery/working without permission. My friend hasn't seen her daughter for six years because her husband falsely accused her and abducted their daughter. Her british husband. She was arrested and deported and is fighting like hell to get her daughter back. There are people who pretend things like this never happen, that it is a crime free society. It isn't.

If you go, go with eyes wide open to what actually happens, beneath the surface of respectability and glitz. My friend (who lasted four years there) always said that the UAE didn't take tax, but took 40 percent of your soul and he has a point. That what it felt like to me.

There are people who will say I'm not giving the true picture, that they are helping people out of poverty etc. That it's a great life. That's their opinion and they are entititled to it. I honestly couldn't stomach it past two years.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Oh and the weather isn't lovely. It's way too hot for at least five months of the year. It's unbearably hot in the summer, really hideous.

Everyone has words to say about the GCC and maid culture but the very similar arrangements all through of Asia and less frequently In the U.S. and even on the sacred soil of the UK.
Some employers are positively awful no matter where they hail from or where they live.
In London, neighbors had a live in housekeeper who slept on the floor of in the basement kitchen instead of being allocated one of the many rooms in the house .

I employ a nanny /housekeeper in Qatar . She is an absolute gem and we couldn't both work there without her.

We get health care , accommodation , school fees and annual flights from our employers and provide the same for her.

Neither she or we are in the country because we love sand .

We are both there because the same opportunities to save money and provide a future for our families do not exist in our home countries.

If you live in a society where you can afford home help, you should. It's creating employment for someone and in many cases bettering their lives. If you treat them well you are sparing them from a more harsh employer. I come from a culture where domestic help is common - there is no welfare system in that society, when you bring someone poor into a good job you help their entire family. It makes no sense to me to refuse to hire help on principle, instead of giving someone a job.

And as mentioned this is not just a UAE thing, you find the same in Singapore, Hong Kong, South Africa, etc.

I've lived in UAE for a while (8+ Years) and there is undoubtedly societal imbalance, although not always in the way you would imagine.

In a country with a broad spectrum of cultures, ethnicities, religions and financial status all these things, along with gender, can work for or against you at any given time.

Maids are a part of life here and conditions have certainly improved collectively as more westerners employ FT live in help - e.g. salaries have increased significantly in the time I have been here.

I do feel sensitive about being seen as some sort of slave master and whilst I can't of course speak for all employers i will clarify my maids circumstances which are not unusual.

She works 5.5 days per week - housework only

Split shifts 6-10 & 2-7. She babysits approx 6 times per month.

She has live in accommodation consisting double bedroom, en suite shower and small kitchenette.

Toiletries, food (she cooks her own as preferred), health insurance, TV package and wifi are paid by me.

She receives 1 month paid holiday + her religious holidays + national holidays

Annual flight home country or cash equivalent plus 1xmth salary as bonus.

For this she receives approx £550 per month. There is no tax so that is in her hand. For comparison this is about 50% more than the average teacher earns in her home country (which of course she is not qualified for).

In real terms she is far better off than she would be in her home country but also I believe her UK based cleaning counterparts.

To answer some of your questions, from my recent experience.
There are "ladies only" queues in Government offices and sometimes banks, in Dubai. Otherwise, locals may occasionally push their way to the front of queues, but no nationality is "called" to the front in a supermarket. In some nationalities (not local, in my experience) more than others, if you are a woman of whatever race, you are considered beneath men and treated as less than them, unless you are local. We have a maid's room, with a bathroom en suite, inside our house, which we happily use for guests. We have a regular "maid" (cleaning lady to me) from an agency who gets a good tip every week. It would be tempting to employ a neigbour-sponsored maid "part-time" but we do not wish to get anyone into trouble.
If you have children in education, there are no state schools for Western
ex-pats and you are obliged to go privately. Those considered the "best" schools are mostly very expensive and have huge waiting lists. Children of ex-pats may grow up with huge senses of "entitlement" and get a massive shock when they return to Blighty, depending on how their parents have educated them.
I would suggest Dubai rather than Abu Dhabi, I believe housing is slightly less expensive and more available and there is more going on here in Dubai. Mind you, if you both have jobs, you will be keeping your noses to the grindstone for 5 or 6 days out of 7 and won't have much time for anything else except saving money (hence employing a maid). People are expected to work very long hours here, longer than in Europe, in my experience. The cost of living is going up and there is talk of new taxes being introduced for Expo 2020. If you do decide to come over, you will need to be aware that there will probably be a huge outlay for setting up costs. Some landlords require a year's rental in advance. If you are lucky, you can negotiate to pay in three or four cheques, in advance, but the rent is then higher than if you pay in one cheque and you need to be sure that there is sufficient money actually in your bank account on the day the cheque is presented, or the bank will freeze your account and you can land up in all kinds of trouble if the cheque bounces. So I hear.
Good luck with your decision.

I would agree with some of your points Dumdedumdedum but would definitely say in our case DH works a lot less hours than he did in London plus he now only has a 10 minute drive to work versus a 1.5 hour long commute. Housing is expensive but its nowhere near the scale of London pricing so its easy to find somewhere close to your workplace thats affordable so for us the difference is incredible. Being so close its also much easier for him to pop out for an hour for a class assembly or sports day, something which he could never do before. We also find there's more of an appreciation for work/life balance but maybe we're just lucky!

Rent is usually payable a year in advance but majority of employers will either pay your housing upfront or provide a loan for rent which they then take off your salary each month. A lot of landlords will consider 2/3 cheques too.

JoandMax - I am thinking of couples who both work full-time here, and have children, it seems to be a juggling act with very long days for all of them. My own husband is a workaholic, even working from home he works ridiculous hours, though a lot of it is travelling in the Middle East and India. Also, not all employers necessarily give you a housing allowance or loan up-front.
(I am deliberately not commenting on the labourers, it is an extremely touchy point.)

Apparently, ITV did an interesting programme on Dubai last night, I've not watched it yet, but here is the link to the iplayer: www.itv.com/itvplayer/travel-guides

i'd love ladies queues in the banks and government buildings here in egypt sorry that's not very helpful.

i'd say the reality of living in countries like that is you need some degree of ability to switch off your compassion sometimes or be able to 'not think about things' sometimes. sounds awful doesn't it but there you go - the reality is that most people cope with these things through some degree of cognitive dissonance. for some that means imbibing the racist kool aid eg. well it's their culture isn't it, group x is lazy or group y refuses to lift themselves up because they like living like that, group z would rather cheat and steal than work etc. for others it involves living in ways that bring them into minimum exposure or contact with the underbelly of society and denying it's existence. the best you hope for is an acceptance of how things are, doing what you can whilst being able to cope emotionally and pragmatically with the limits of what you can do without getting yourself arrested or causing further reaching problems for others etc.

you have to be able to cope with seeing true poverty and cruelty at times trying to remain a compassionate honest person but still having some boundaries that allow you to cope. that's a reality. you will also need to be able to cope with entirely different attitudes to human and animal rights - perhaps their non existence. if you want to help with things you will have to accept the limits of what you can do and ethical dilemmas like well if i do a i'm helping b in the short term but encouraging c to continue with this practice. i've found that in helping feed starving horses for example.

there's also the massive frustration of wanting to help people but having to balance that with the reality of the number of cons and rip offs that have been accomplished by some who understandably perhaps see the foreigner as a cash cow in a place with few opportunities for social mobility. so wanting to remain open and friendly and trusting whilst being suitably guarded and having your head screwed on. i also know many people who have ended up feeling incredibly hurt by people who they thought were friends but were just after something. there is a wealth disparity and it happens. again some cope with that by sipping from the more racist expats kool aid about all 'x's' are thieving lying bastards don't trust them', some remain naive and might as well have a sign on their head saying 'use me', others keep trying to find a balance, get to know decent stable people and develop a better radar and a slower more deliberate approach to getting to trust people.

you also have to have respect for people and practices not being the way you'd have them eg. as said an household employee might not want to be your friend, they might prefer a simple professional distance, might not want to be 'friends' with some woman they have nothing in common with and might actually find more dignity in that 'ma'am' relationship that in a pseudo friendship when they're quite clearly not equals as the woman is her boss.

sorry i've gone on for ages and will stop.

I often get called to the front of queues in banks etc for the simple reason Im a bit older now at 57 and its done as a sign of respect. Its something Im quite happy to go along with because I know why its been done but in my younger day I would have refused and not allowed anyone except an older person to go in front of me in a queue.

There are ways to say things that doesn't cause upset whilst getting a point across quite nicely.

TheHoneyBadger - cognitive dissonance - exactly right.

Hi again,

I had forgotton about this thread as it disappeared from my watch list.

Thank you all for your replies. The perceived quality of life for every individual, group and race is obviously subjective as is, how one chooses to align their life and experiences with their knowledge of human conditions, rights and worth.

There's plenty of food for thought here. Thank you.

ok another point that tonight has just reminded me of. occasionally you will find yourself turning into a spitting hissing ball of resentment at the latest person who tried to charge you three times the right price. when you are tired, picking up large amounts of water and bits and bobs with a child in tow and just want to grab a taxi with full wilingness to pay them above what is reasonable for the small journey and then they announce a ridiculous price... sometimes you have the humuor and oompf to laugh but sometimes it makes your blood boil and you find yourself quoting relevant suras of the qu'ran at them in arabic like a crazy woman.

we've just done a walk that wasn't far but felt epic in these temperatures carrying a 6litre bottle of water. that's me and my 8 yo negotiating how far we will each take our turn before the other takes over. we are home, the air con is on and all is well but for a few minutes there i was murderous towards some newly arrived greedy haram bastard who made us walk out of our way to his car before announcing a ridiculous piss take of a prce he expected.
and assumed we'd be stupid or desperate enough to pay.

and breath :)

Cobbler Bob, I lived your post. Your quote about not paying tax but taking 40% of your soul is one that will stick with me! It sadly resonates.

I haven't lived in the ME but SE instead, and although women's rights are better where I lived, I also struggled with the hypocrisy, the shiny exterior and crappy morals underneath, the treatment of maids and cheap foreign labour. I got sick of people telling me to get a live-in maid, but nothing would make me want to support that practice, even if I am the type of person who would have treated them kindly and with respect. I got tired of (particularly non-working) Westerners justifying their decision to hire one, which was really a smidgen of guilt and shame but then quickly forgotten once they were able to go out and pamper themselves whenever they fancied and made OK because "that's just what people do over here" - erm, no it isn't, it's what you choose to do and you don't have to do it if you don't want to. Too much peer pressure.

Expat in a blingy fakey make money fast place = not for me.

*loved not lived FFS!

Hi. What you've been told about queue jumping is completely untrue. I have lived in Abu Dhabi for the past nine years and am moving to the UK in less than a week. Part of me will really really miss AD.
Things that will bother you:
-the traffic and the aggression of certain drivers, it can be seriously intimidating;
-the heat is a killer;
-school places are like gold dust (if you have school age children) and you will mostly not get what you pay for;
-if the 'maid' issue has bothered you then come prepared for stories of serious abuse of domestic help. Having said that there is an equal number of stories where house help has developed a wonderful relation with their employer's family;
It's a great place to live for a few years. You will be living in a veritable melting pot of nationalities and will make very interesting friends. My DD's primary school had children from 57 nationalities and it was an incredible experience for her. It is super safe. No petty or opportunistic crime. Do it, is what I'd say. Good luck.

It's not for everyone Op. It can challenge your norms and view of the world. No shame in realising it's not for you and staying at home.

Hi, I live in UAE. The queue thing is total bollocks -although there are ladies queues in some government offices etc.

We don't have a maid. It's not that common if you don't have children here.

And be careful about the 'fantastic salary' - yes there's no tax , but a LOT of hidden costs especially when you first arrive. Cost of living is high and temptations to spend abound. Many people leave the UAE having saved very little.

The conditions for some of the construction workers and other laborers here are pretty appalling. I'd say maids have a decent life if their employers are reasonable, but the manual laborers have it pretty crap. And yes there is prejudice here, although it's not usually based on race so much as 'status' - i.e. if you are a smartly dressed, professional-looking Pakistani you will rarely encounter problems, but if you are a Pakistani who is obviously a laborer then you may well be treated like shit.

But these things happen all over the world. We fuel this abuse in the UK by buying cheap clothes and goods imported from Bangladesh, Cambodia etc, as much as the UAE fuels it with their construction work. I don't think it's worse here, just more visible.

And by the way, what makes you think Dubai and AD are beautiful cities??? I know there's no accounting for tastes, but both are bloody eyesores.

" Job prospects in our field are great, they're beautiful cities, lots of expat community events/clubs etc, lovely weather, great nightlife, outdoor activities. Basically loads of pros. "
Well you can't have your cake and eat it too.
You worry about feeling inadequate about white privilege?
Why are you going in the first place?