Emigrating to New Zealand - partner who is Kiwi

[andantecantabile]

Hi everyone. I've read the MN boards for quite some time but this is my first post. I'm not actually a mum (hope that's ok!) although one day I hope to be. I wanted to post as this seems like such an amazing resource for sharing experiences and gaining advice.

My DP is from New Zealand, and has lived in the UK for 5 years. I am British. We have been together for nearly two years; he is 30 and I am 28. He makes me so happy and I know he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. We have been talking about the future for a little while, although more so recently. We rent currently as part of a house share, but are saving for a house deposit and would like to live just the two of us, either in a rented property, or our own house, when our current tenancy runs out.

However, I know deep down that DP would like to return to New Zealand in the future, and has expressed that us buying a house here would be a difficult step for him, as in a sense he is committing to living here for the long term. In an ideal world, he would like to return to live in New Zealand, and settle down there to raise a family. We have looked at property online in both London (where we currently live) and New Zealand (specifically Wellington) and what you can get for your money in NZ compared to here is just ridiculous. The houses in NZ look just beautiful, huge gardens, so much space. Total contrast to the cramped one bed flats with a share of communal garden for £250K...

I haven't yet been to New Zealand, but we are going at Christmas. I know that he is very keen for me to like it there, and from what I've seen and heard, it does look an incredible place to live. I know that if we were to have children, it would be a great place for them to grow up. In terms of employment, my DP would most likely be able to find a job quickly. I would be able to build up my work more gradually, as I'm self-employed.

However, it's just....... so far away! I wouldn't be able to see my family regularly, and if we have children, it pains me that my parents wouldn't be able to see our children grow up, except on Skype. (So as not to drip feed, my Dad would be unable to make the flight to NZ for health reasons, so the only times we would be able to see my family are if we flew back to the UK).

I've done some research into what life would be like over there: as I understand it, the exchange rate is quite poor, so any deposit we have here wouldn't be worth the same over there. I know that things like groceries are so expensive too, in comparison.

For what it's worth, DP hasn't put any pressure on me in terms of deciding where to live. And in any case, I can't make any decisions until I've at least been to visit NZ.

What I'm asking really, is for you to share any relevant experiences you might have that could help me organise my thoughts! Especially the logistics of visiting family on the other side of the world, and maintaining a relationship. I'm sorry for the essay. I've watched so many episodes of 'Wanted Down Under!' and it would be great to hear from others first hand. Thank you

Gennz mainly Palmerston North and Auckland. I was there in 1999/2000so hopefully things have changed for the better.

I still wouldn't take the risk of living there again given my colouring. Horribly racist country.

Can I just say to the person who referred to multi-cultural Auckland - well that is where I experienced racism at its worst.

Totally agree with thecrimsonqueen racism at its worst.

We're involved in Uni education which explains Wellington and Dunedin; big unis there. Heard some absolute horror stories from students mainly from their experiences in Christchurch and Auckland.

Have to say though, loved Dunedin. In our experience Auckland's up it's own backside, Wellytown's overpriced and cliquey, Christchurch is just wrong, Nelson is backwards but Dunedin's a bit special.

My husband and I moved to Christchurch from the UK 14 months ago for an adventure. It took me about 6 months to settle and feel positive about being here but now I do love it. We are having our first baby soon and have found the maternity care to be good. Pros are a much healthier outdoors lifestyle (walking, hiking, surfing, skiing all on our doorstep), an easier pace of life with less traffic and quick commute to work, people are friendly, and it is a stunningly beautiful place to live. Children have amazing opportunities here and the opportunity to do lots of sports. Cons are that it so so far away from family and friends, the clothes shopping is dreadful, food is expensive and there is little culture. Christchurch has amazing places to live by the beach but the city centre is a war zone still. Some aspects of kiwi life are quite backwards compared to the UK. We will probably stay for a couple more years and then go back home.

I lived there for a year with my ds1 and my now ex, I couldn't stick it out any longer so I came home, we were in Kumeu and I constantly felt like an outsider.

I found there to be a lot of racist attitudes and the cost of everything was mad expensive compared to what my ex was earning.

Wow, NZ is getting a bit of a slating from some here! And don't really understand the 'Christchurch is just wrong' comment...!! We live in Christchurch and have found it to be great as a city. We've been here 3 and a bit years and really enjoy the life we have here. We live right by the beach and the DC go to a great school. You have to adapt to the shopping here, it took a while, but I actually spend less a week now than I did in the UK. I shop at farm shops, and buy in season. Buying in bulk and freezing is a good way to shop here. You do have to eat a lot less processed food though if you want to shop cheaply.

I personally would not go back to the UK to live as we have a better life out here, but I do appreciate that this is very dependent on individual experience. My dh has quite a specific job which meant that he doubled his wage coming here, although the flip side of that is the job market is very small here so it is likely we will have to move to other parts of NZ at some point.

I do agree that it can be parochial, which can be infuriating, and there is some racism, but then there is in the UK too, and it's not all kiwis by any means. I have got a couple of very good kiwi friends here, but it can be tricky to break into established friendship groups, but then again we moved around in the UK too and I often found the same there too.

I think you have to try it for yourself and decide if it will work for you. We love it, but obviously plenty don't too. Good luck with it all

DH and I are kiwis. He is from New Plymouth and I'm from auckland. Before we left for the UK we lived in Auckland. DH thinks it's a better place to raise young children but we won't go back. There are no jobs if you are in a professional field. (We are PhD level engineer/scientist). There is a reason why so many young kiwis left for opportunities overseas. If you think it's great for your children, research why nz has a brain drain problem.

I'm ethnic Chinese and it's a horribly racist country. People might be colder and more reserved in the UK but no where I feel english are racist. At least I don't get random racist comments on the street. We left in the mid 2000. So things might have changed.

"There are no jobs if you are in a professional field" is a pretty sweeping statement. DH and I are both professionals (lawyers) and have had no trouble career-wise, though there were definitely more opportunities in my field in the UK.

We have a great quality of life here but I'm aware that we are lucky enough to have a good income to enable it. Being comfortably middle class is not as easy as it was 10 - 20 years ago, but I guess that's the same in the UK as well.

I've never experienced racism here (directed towards me, have definitely heard anti-Chinese sentiment) but I'm NZ European so I guess I'm not likely to. I heard plenty of racist comments in the UK though (black cab drivers ranting about "immigrants" - when we'd point out that we were immigrants "oh not you, you're one of us innit - I mean Poles") but I don't think Britain is a racist country as a result.

I feel like the NZ PR person!! I love it here, I'm glad we're raising our kids here but of course everyone's experience is different. I just wish we weren't so far away from the rest of the world, but of course that has advantages too.

gennz you can't deny the fact that many young kiwis have left for opportunities overseas. And that those with university degrees are more likely to go. Being a lawyer you would have more chances than those in the sciences. Career opportunities are poor and most of my classmates from my undergrad year in Auckland university is now overseas.

I also know the living standards of the other end too. MIL is totally dependent on state benefits. She is a British national who lived in NZ since her 20s. She couldn't make ends meet at all to the level that she can't afford the doctors. She has to pay for GPs, prescriptions, and hospital tests despite having no income. The worst joke was she couldnt pay for the ambulance charge that took FIL when he had his last heart attack. She left and came back to the UK last year. She commented how well she is treated by the NHS and the benefit system here. (She actually has spare money from just state pension, pension credits and housing benefit). She couldn't get a specialist referral at all in New Plymouth and within 6mo here she saw specialists for her heart, liver and skin.

Obviously we shouldn't decide where to settle based on benefits or the NHS. Because I think the UK is heading the same way on the NHS as NZ.

The youth suicide rates are high in NZ aren't they, does anyone know why?

gennz I'll join you in the NZ PR! I heard more racism in the UK myself, I went to university in a very multicultural city and had many negative comments from people back home about the place because of this, so whilst, yes, there is racism here, it is by no means a kiwi phenomenon.

twolittleterrors my dh is a well qualified professional engineer and had no trouble getting work here, and there is definitely work elsewhere in NZ for him, although he is quite specialised. I know quite a few very highly educated kiwis here who yes, did go away to work elsewhere for a while, but ultimately have chosen to come back here to raise their families and still work in their chosen field. There have also been quite a few kiwis coming back from Oz lately too. But yes, it is a small job market compared to the UK and elsewhere and you have to be prepared for everyone knowing everyone else, which I think could make it feel quite claustrophobic in certain industries.

I remember arriving in London 20 years ago. On the drive from the airport, my DH and I looked at each other and we were both thinking "What the hell have we DONE?!" We were driving past rows and rows of joined up houses, the likes of which we had never seen. We couldn't imagine ever living like that. Where we come from, there is space around homes - yes, homes, not "sheds".

Fast forward a few years, I was moaning about this and that crappy thing about London and a work colleague said to me "Why don't you just fuck off back home to NZ then?"

Please bear in mind that it swings both ways and that your comments about my home country are hugely offensive to me and probably a lot of other New Zealanders. I'm thinking the same as my old colleague about some of you.

I'm assuming people are trying to be honest with the OP NotIn. She's asked for opinions and they are giving their experiences to try and help her with her decision whether to move or not. Not to purposefully insult Kiwis.

My DH is a kiwi and I am from the UK. We have lived and owned homes in NZ and here. We are now settled in the UK. Here are my 2 cents - when I moved to NZ to be with my then boyfriend after living in a house share together for 2 years I was really excited about buying a house together after living in a room and paying £££. Had spent lots of time with other kiwis and was sure that it was going to be amazing and we would have a great life etc.

The first thing I noticed when I arrived was how few people there were! After NY/LA stop overs, and being a Londoner I could get my head around how small everything is. I was also a bit taken back by the cost of living (high interest rates, poor salaries, low job security, cost of food) and I was genuinely shocked how inward looking it is. It's like there is nothing outside NZ except Oz.

For me it was a complete culture shock and DH was also a bit unsettled as I think 2 years of travel had changed him more than he realised. We pushed on and bought a house and started renovating both got jobs (took me 3 months to find work).

One evening about a year into living there, DH turned to me in a traffic out of the blue and said "it's a bit shit here isn't it? Shall we go to OZ or back to London?" The house was on the market the next day

It is bloody cold in the winter - no central heating was like a zip back in time to my granny's house in rural Ireland - just 1 room heated with a log burner (yikes!!) to be fair we were in CHCH, so you can snowboard just a hour away in the winter but the summer weather was a bit like London too (ie unreliable and wet ) so not really what I was expecting.

As we were cohabiting we both saw a solicitor to protect our assets and she advised me that NZ has very strong family law and I need to be aware that if I chose to have a family in NZ and the relationship broke down, I would not be able to leave with my children. She scared the shit out of me actually! I was 26 and not really thinking about the long term - she really did us a favour because it's a huge decision and we had some really long discussions about our future and what we wanted it to look like.

When we were deciding where to settle DH and I considered all the options including affordability (to be able to visit family ie 1 trip a year with kids) job prospects and ability to travel. We would never have been able to afford for me to travel home on NZ salaries, so after considering all of the points above, we decided to move back to London and we've been here for 10 years now. We go back to NZ every year and every time for the first 4 days of the trip we are both all "we should live here, it's so nice, the kids would have such a good life etc." but by day 10 we are itching to get away - it's just so boring!

I don't have any answers for you, it has been the right decision for us. I love NZ in many ways, I just don't want to live there.

notin agree that many of us are just being honest about our opinions. And I would never said in front of another kiwi the negative things, except about the job market. That one seems to be acceptable. Unlike clothes, leaky houses, prices.

Ultimately if you ask kiwis who have moved and settled overseas, they will most likely tell you they prefer overseas than NZ. Otherwise, we would have gone back home. Same with kiwis who have done their OEs and went back. They will say there is no where like NZ for families. We are all entitled to our opinions. And I don't believe anyone have been 'racist' about NZ on this thread.

In my experience young people move away from NZ and most of them eventually move back. All of my friends moved to the UK in their mid 20s. All of them. And all of DH's too. We are all university qualified professionals. All of mine bar one (my best mate ) have moved back to NZ and so have most of DH's. About 4 are still in London and of those, two have married British women.

Yes houses are cold. Our 100 year old villa was freezing when we bought it. So we insulated it and put a proper heating system in. Not an insurmountable problem.

The summer in Auckland is nothing like London!! I swim outside in an unheated pool for 6 months of the year, it will be 25 degrees this week which would be what the equivalent of October in the UK?

I genuinely love London and I could definitely live there again, but quality of life in NZ far outweighs what we could expect to have in the UK, esp with young kids. In an ideal world I'd do 9 months in NZ and June - September in London!

The poster has asked for our opinion on her situation, there are many honest posts on here aimed at giving her some information about what it is actually like to live in New Zealand.

I actually think the posts are pretty balanced, unlike the information given at the various road shows to get people to go the NZ or some of the info spouted by the NZ government about living here. The reality is that it is at least 10 years behind Europe here and I can't see how this will improve. The brain drain is a huge problem for the government and I think less and less people will be attracted here (and Oz) from the likes of the UK.

It is a shame that one poster was told to 'just go back then', I think you get this everywhere if you are negative about a country you are living in though. The main point I would like to stress to the OP again is - think about how you will get back if it doesn't work. It is often more difficult to make the move back than get somewhere in the first place.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to write considered responses, I do appreciate them all, and especially the honesty within the posts. It’s important for me to know the negative aspects as well as the positives.
A few people have addressed the issue of having children in NZ and then not being able to leave with them, should I wish to. This is something that does worry me, and whilst I hope that we would be able to have a happy marriage and family life, and that no one hopes for their relationship to break down, these things happen. It needs to be a consideration, however scary it is to think about.

grumbleina your posts are very helpful, thank you. The information about housing especially so. My DP’s Dad is actually a builder by trade, so hopefully we wouldn’t be caught out there, but I will absolutely ask DP about the leaky homes thing. I had no idea that a dehumidifier would be so important either! A trial run is a great suggestion too, and thankfully I can drive - I’ve heard that the public transport in NZ is very sparse, which would be a big shock coming from London!

Underthedeepbluesea your post made me chuckle because my DP is from South Auckland! His parents still live there. I did have a brief look into Dunedin and it looks lovely, and I can see what you mean about the property prices too. I think my DP was thinking Wellington partly due to the house prices and being able to get more for your money, and also because work-wise it could be a good location.

Toastedorfresh I’m sorry to hear about your experiences and I hope that things begin to look up for you soon

specialsubject your post made me laugh, especially about my mum not appreciating a lunchtime call, and drivers randomly bumping into each other all the time. I do love cycling, and we have done lots of cycle-touring in the UK and Europe, and I would love to see NZ by bike. I didn’t know Wellington was directly on a fault line; after seeing the devastation the CHCH earthquake caused, that is a worry.

Shutuplegs thanks for the insight into your relationship with your sister. The losing touch and not being able to see each other in person would definitely be a big factor.

Gennz thank you for your post. It is amazing to me that you can swim outside in October! It is very useful for me to hear about the school system too, as I have heard a little about the decile system in NZ but wasn’t sure what it meant for the bigger picture. Rationalising the travel issue as being a day away, a horrible day but only a day was also very helpful and heartening for me. I hadn’t really thought about it that way. The expense and the jet lag is a big downside though. My DP is from South Auckland . Could I ask the reasons why you wouldn’t consider living in Dunedin or Wellington? (Just curious!)

Neenawnee I don’t know either, I suspect that Gennz is correct. I don’t know how relevant this is, but should we have children, we would want them to hold both British and NZ passports.

TheCrimsonQueen no problem, thank you for your honesty. I’m sorry to hear you experienced such racism.

ByronBaby thanks for the informative post. It is a great help to hear your pros and cons. I would definitely miss pubs! It’s interesting you are an artist, and I’m glad you have found some success with your work. My work is also in the arts sector (different field) and the kind of word of mouth thing would be important for me. Your last sentence made me laugh out loud, so much so that I had to explain to DP why I was laughing. It made him roar as well!

Athrawes I’m so glad you love living in NZ. The kayaking so close to your house blows my mind!

Kiwidoc congratulations on your baby! It’s useful to know that it took you some time to settle in and feel more at home there.

Dontevenblink thank you for your post! It’s helpful to have some insight into making friends and joining in with the community.

TwoLittleTerrors I’m horrified at your experience of racism in NZ.

Notstayingup thanks for telling me your story, it’s so interesting. Do you find it reasonably do-able to visit NZ every year in terms of finances and logistics? (If this is too personal feel free not to answer). If I was living in NZ I would want to visit the UK yearly.

Thank you so much for all the useful replies, I have read carefully and appreciate each one. There is a lot for me to think about here, but the personal experiences both good and bad are so useful for me. Sorry for the epic essay – it’s taken me so long to write it I had to save it in a word document!

Cheers all

I would closely consider ;
Your employment /career prospects in NZ and whether they will be in the same place DP will work / settle.
How much you will miss family and your friends.
Whether you will get on and be accepted by DP's family (have you met them ?)
What you love in your current lifestyle/city and whether it can be mirrored or bettered in NZ.

Good luck .

Hey op, not too personal at all. Am glad you found it useful as I wrote it and posted and then thought oops overshare!!

In terms of affordability we just prioritise. When it was just the 2 of us it was easy, once we had our DDs it required a bit more planning, mainly because it's a long way, now we are in school terms we have different challenges in terms of getting enough time off to do the 27+ hr journey worthwhile from a jetlag perspective. But we make sure, no matter what happens we are visiting regularly and when I was pregnant with DD2, DH went on his own for 3 weeks. We book the flights about 340 days in advance to get good fares (1k plus each for Christmas time each) and we do alternate Christmases to give all grandparents a fair go.

DHs parents have been over twice and are coming again this year - they come for at least a month at a time, so when we bought our house we made sure there was enough room to have extended house guests.

Feel free to ask questions, am happy to answer

Hi and

I'm an Aucklander so I'm always going to prefer living here!

I lived in Wellington for about 18 months immediately after I graduated from uni (first job) and before I moved to London. I really liked it at the time: it's a cool little city with great bars & cafes, very walkable, nice harbour setting. Houses are more affordable than Auckland too (though on the flip side you won't get the massive capital gain you could reasonably expect to get in Auckland). The climate drove me mad though - even on a lovely sunny day a southerly wind can whip though and it will be freezing. In Auckland you get great summer weather from December to April - in Wellington it can be coat weather by the end of Feb. Also, almost everyone is employed in the state sector in Wellington & it can feel quite small & parochial. I loved it when I was there but I visited after 3 years living in London & was shocked at how small I found it, obviously I'd been more changed by living in London than I realised.

Dunedin - again, too small and too cold for me! But if that doesn't bother you, and you can find a job there, it could be a good place to live: VERY affordable houses, cute little city with a bit happening (some good bars etc due to the student population) a beautiful part of the world - 2/3 hours drive to Queenstown/Wanaka area (which is pretty cool, esp if you like skiing).

Flights to the UK would be ex-Auckland which would be something else to think about. It's not a major but adding an extra 3+ hours to the hellish NZ - UK flight (45 min Wellington - Auckland, plus transfer) would be annoying.

I'm glad I made you laugh! I hope you didn't find it offensive.

I'm surprised about how much good press Dunedin is getting, normally it's the usual "cold, crap council and full of students". Gennz, I wouldn't even put my dog in the flats I lived in as a student in Dunedin in the '80s, they were that cold/disgusting I would go to the library as much as I could

I understand how cold it could be for an Aucklander like you as my PIL won't come down from May - Sept but it's normal for me as I spent my childhood in Invercargill/Dunedin and then lived 15 years in Queenstown. DD went for a swim in a lake in Alexandra yesterday and still swims at the beach from Oct-Mar but she is a lifeguard!

I am a Kiwi but I've lived overseas for the last 20 years. At times I've thought about moving back but can't bring myself to do it!

My thoughts...

Yes, it can be racist and parochial. But that depends on who you associate with. I don't find this to be the default, but sometimes I am shocked by a friend's husband or someone I meet in passing.

Pacific Island and Maori have the worst levels of health, the worst education, the worst housing and overall, the worst prospects in the country. The comment about positive discrimination was very uninformed. It's up to the government and the people to put right what has gone wrong for so, so long. It might be weird for people coming from the UK, but I would suggest you try to understand the dynamic a little better.

What I find hard is the turned-inwardness that a lot of Kiwis living in NZ have. The stupid animal stories on the front page of the national paper. The woeful journalism that is getting steadily worse. It's because NZ is so isolated, and Australia is where you go when you go "overseas", as someone mentioned.

People are superficially friendly, which is lovely when you're out and about, but it can be hard to break into friendship groups. You need to really make an effort. There's lots of community stuff going on so that would be a good way to start.

On the bright side ... in recent years a lot of Kiwis have been moving back from overseas. I hope this will change the country for the better. Places I originally wouldn't consider living (like Nelson, New Plymouth and Napier) are being re-energised by young families looking for places where they can buy a house at a decent price.

I really like Auckland and its variation and many beaches, but it's too expensive for us. Wellington is probably my favourite city, it's so cool, with nooks and crannies full of weird galleries, shops, indie cinemas, pop-up theatre ... it's one of the best cities in the world, especially when the sun is shining. When it's not shining it's pretty bleak. I wouldn't live there again unless I had a really decent home with central heating and insulation, or I could afford to modernise an older home.

DrRopata (love the name!), I remember feeling exactly the same way when I moved to London. Green, naive me had never seen anything like it. I couldn't believe that people lived like that and could be happy doing so!