Permanent move North of UK to Auckland - how on earth do I choose if it's the right thing???

[IndecisionCentral]

DH is considering a job in Auckland. We currently have a good standard of living in North of England with young DC. DH has worked in oz before but many years ago, and has always been keen to return to Australasia.
We both work in healthcare and are disillusioned with the gradual erosion of the NHS.
Attractions are new challenge, better summers, beautiful country, better childhood for kids (?)
Concerns are kids feeling unsettled (both at first and later - will they hate us for taking them away from the opportunities in the UK), missing family (they're supportive and we don't see each other that often anyway), whether we'll ever feel we belong, if we will actually get a better quality of life in NZ, the dismal wet winters.

I've been reading loads, for weeks and weeks. I have a few questions for anyone out there who has been in our shoes and made the leap and would really appreciate some help.

Some people say education is great, others that class sizes are huge and not close to UK standards. What's the truth? DS is currently in private school which we would consider but had hoped class sizes and standards were reasonable enough to not have to.

Auckland seems very expensive for housing and there's is a lot of mention of v expensive foods and day to day living costs. Is this considerably worse than the UK?

If you live in nz and particularly Auckland as an immigrant what would you say are the best bits about living there? And the worst?

It's so so hard. I don't want to make the mistake of a lifetime, nor miss the opportunity of a lifetime. I know no one else can choose for me but I'd really appreciate some views from those further down the line. Thanks.

Thanks chipping and wherehas, I'm lovely all the positivity about schools there The kids are a big reason we're considering this move, to give them the best childhood we can, and I guess that's why school feels such an important deciding point.

I love online shopping and would miss the ease of it, but I'm sure I'd soon get used to a bit less choice. We do love cooking from scratch and do so most days, so lack of ready foods won't be an issue.

Like the idea of a motel for a month or 2 until the shipping container arrives, then perhaps rent if we haven't figured out our plans. Not sure we'd be able to get DS into school until we have a permanent address though so depends a bit when we arrive and how their summer holiday fits in.

Feeling more positive than when I posted, so thanks all and any further thoughts much appreciated.

My brother emigrated to NZ and lives in Auckland OP. He has older children with some at primary and others at secondary. He met his wife after he had left the UK.
What he likes is the outdoor life and lots of facilities for sport. The schools start teaching rugby from a young age (girls as well as boys) and there seem to be a larger variety of sports taught than in the UK (where it's mostly football). He likes rugby and cricket but still gets teased at work when the All Blacks beat England! He has met plenty of people from England out there so you won't be alone!
He hasn't encountered any problems with racism even though they live in one of the more diverse areas of the city.
If you have any questions please send a pm.

The education system here is actually very good. My DS is going into year 2 and has been in classes of 16-18 (we're not in AKL; rather in the capital).

There have been some changes to primary education recently, with the introduction of National Standards. There was quite a furore back when they came in, in 2010 (I only moved back with my London-born DH and DC in 2011, and neither of the DC were yet in school).

However, that furore has died down, and I am very aware that there were/still are a hue number of misconceptions around the Standards, and actually, they're a force for good.

In any case, the education system works very well for the vast majority of kids (with a great curriculum), and our top-performing kids are amongst the best in the world.

Where we do have an issue is with regards to equity, and the fact that a minority of kids aren't served quite so well by the system. However, lets just say that of you're a supportive family, and in any way engaged with your child's learning, this really doesn't apply to you.

I work at the Ministry and am happy to answer any questions you might have, happy to be PM'd, etc. I should note that we're off on hols for 10 days today, to the Abel Tasman for a spot of beaching, tramping (hiking), camping and kayaking and our holiday spot is pretty remote! Not sure what the Internet connection will be like, so may not be able to provide a quick response!

We lived in AKL for a year on our move back here, and then uprooted to our beautiful capital, and are much happier down here. It took me a long time to settle back in, I admit (was in the UK for 13 years). Some parts of the North Shore are pretty soulless, some parts most definitely not (google Devonport).

However, nearly 4 years on, and we're feeling settled. Our kids love it, and are having the same idyllic childhood I had. :)

Apologies for typos - am on my phone!

Oh, one other point of reassurance - the list of things kids are expected to be able to do on starting school? Dress themselves, look after their belongings, etc. is actually a good thing, if you think about it (let kids be kids).

Most children (around 95-96%) do participate in early childhood education prior to starting school, so the vast, vast majority can actually do more than just the things on those lists.

And bear in mind that in many countries (including European ones) the school starting age isn't until 6, sometimes 7.

My DC not starting at 4, as they would have done had we stayed in the UK, was a massive 'pro' in my mind.

Not sure we'd be able to get DS into school until we have a permanent address though so depends a bit when we arrive and how their summer holiday fits in.
It is the school Summer holiday in NZ now OP. Schools start back in early Feb.

Thanks catslife and japanese. DS is quite sporty so hopefully he'll continue to be and that'll help him settle. It sounds like pretty small classes at least to start with so that's good. Our local state primary has 32 4 year olds per reception class which is why we opted for private.

i do think it's better to start formal education later in general, it's just that since DS has started already I was worried it'd be just another difference, but it sounds like he'll be much the same as the others.

Can I ask why you weren't happy in Auckland japanese?

I wouldn't worry about the price of fresh produce, I'd just buy at farm shops instead as much cheaper and lasts longer ime. I buy 2kg of apples for $3 all yr round, bananas about $2-3 per kg, potatoes are cheap, and in general just buy in season. Blueberries for example are $2 for a punnet at the moment, but out of season can be $6, same goes for strawberries.

Yy to cooking from scratch, they don't really do ready meals. We find take aways pretty cheap though (although rarely get them!)

Some children in dds class could read when they started, others couldn't. Dd1 couldn't but progressed really quickly and at the end of year 1 is almost at the top of the reading levels, so I don't think starting at 5 instead of 4 disadvantaged her, in fact it's a big plus for me too. I think it's a great life for DC here.

I've been looking at Auckland too due Dh's job and it is a massive area but with lots of different areas. We prefer smaller places so places like the Whangaparoa peninsula appeal to us, or Beachlands to the south east. You can't really generalise with Auckland as it is so big. All depends on where the job is too.

When we first arrived we had a motel for 4 weeks whilst we looked around. Wish we'd had more time to look really as we're now in a different area and dd1 is in an out of zone school, but this in mainly due to situation with rental property in Christchurch as we arrived just after the quakes. We rented an unfurnished house and just had no furniture for 2 months! We did buy a couple of new mattresses instead of bringing ours (I was heavily pregnant at the time so refused to sleep on the floor ) and it was fine. One of the suitcases we brought we just filled up with dc's toys so they had some of their own things. We bought a cheap crockery set and cutlery from briscoes (they are online briscoes.co.nz and always have a 20 to 60% off sale on a Thursday, so ignore full prices, it's a bit of a running joke here )

Christchurch can be a bit parochial, but I don't find racism particularly bad, it does worry me a bit though that dd1's school isn't very multicultural at all, but Auckland is much more diverse so should be better.

We transferred with DH's job at the last minute, the original plan was to go to Welly.

I dunno - a combination of things, really... being back in my home country, and it being familiar, but totally unfamiliar at the same time (I didn't know AKL at all).

Leaving behind a big circle of friends that we saw a lot of, and moving to knowing no-one.

The DC were very young - 2 and 9 months. They were in that extremely high maintenance phase and we had no support network. It was tough, lonely, and compounded our 'home' sickness a lot.

And the rain...! AKL is sub-tropical and can get a lot of rain. The year we arrived, after a (to be fair) glorious warm and sunny winter, it seemed to rain from August through to April...

We were unlucky, and in spite of the rain (which many summers don't necessarily have), it was still very warm.

We were living in D'port which is beautiful, by just could not see ourselves settling (my friends were down in Welly and in my home town).

Basically, we couldn't get out of there fast enough. Had our DC been school age, and had we been able to build up a network through that, it might have been quite different. Many Brits move to AKL and love it, so it was us, not AKL, IYSWIM.

Also school holidays are different, there are about 6 weeks in the summer (so dec/jan/feb), then two weeks in april, two weeks in July and another two weeks at Sep/Oct before breaking up about a week before Christmas. There are 4 terms which are roughly 10 week long, so no half terms. Sadly the public holidays aren't great here, you will get Good Friday, Queens Birthday Monday in June and Labour Monday in October, the rest of public holidays like ANZAC Day can fall mid week which means you can't have a long weekend.

I think Auckland is a bit of a 'marmite' city, you will find heaps of people who love it and others who hate it (especially the people in the south) but a quarter of NZ live in Auckland, so obviously heaps of people love it.

AKL can have amazing weather but like Japanese says, it can rain and rain till the cows come home, also there is lots of humidity and thunderstorms. (though it's better than a total fire ban and on restricted water due to drought which is going on down here)

Yes to the gangs mainly keeping to themselves - Porirua (just north of where we are in wellington) has a few gang issues but as PP said it is mainly just kept between themselves.

You may find it hard to get a private rented that is furnished but you should be able to find a motel/serviced apartment but that costs a bit more. Most rented places come with white goods only.

If you/DH are going to be working out of Auckland hospital or Greenlane then Epsom would be a fairly easy commute (an Aucklander may be on to correct me!). We had to use an Auckland specialist when DH had his heart transplant and stayed up in Greenlane commuting between there and Auckland City hospital when needed. I found the care we received magnificent and it seems that NZ is crying out for medical specialists so i assume you would be welcomed with open arms.

We spend time at the beach most of the year round, although the years do vary with some winters being worse than others.

Although NZ is a smaller country, with a smaller job market, in some ways this can be an advantage. You have to be more adaptable but people seem to enjoy that and employers are more flexible. My last team had people from a wide variety of background doing a similar job.

It can be easier to be a big fish in a small pond. Kiwi's do well around the world and I think it is down to their 'have a go attitude'. The optimism here is so refreshing.

We will probably send our DC to our local high school which has a good reputation but a pal of mine sends hers to ACG in Parnell and really rates it.

I had to completely switch careers on returning home, and it was tough.

Totally agree that we are crying out for specialists - very much so!!

Brother emigrated there years ago with small child. Sister in law = Kiwi - and they emigrated for better standard of living.

Yes - they certaintly got more bang for their buck than they would have in the part of the UK they were living in - and love the 'outdoor' style of living there.

But - general observations:

• schools less 'academic' than UK;

• good more expensive (and 'parochial')

• blandness of buildings and architecture

• yes, obviously weather better than UK - but the mild winters aren't all that...

TBH honest - I think brother prefers UK - but is nevertheless quite happy out there

Meant to say generally that also much more 'parochial' - television news and newspapers focussing almost exclusively on domestic issues. Have to make a real effort to maintain awareness of world issues.

Good safety and open friendly informal culture

* schools less 'academic' than UK

I don't actually know what this means. Kiwi graduates are everywhere. All over the world.

And I'm not talking about the elite, cream of the crop. But all of us, just regular people out there, living and training and career-progressing.

My brother moved to London 12 years ago. He's worked his way up to his third magic circle law firm, now a partner. Not bad for a state-educated boy from the provinces. And that's by no means at all unusual.

Perhaps our schools are less 'academic' (would love to see the research and, as I say, understand what this actually means), but this doesn't seem to have any impact success on actual graduate life.

Thanks for the new posts. I'm away from a computer but will look through and reply later. All useful, thanks

I love the north shore! It's where my dd is living at the moment. It has nice beaches, shopping areas and good access to the city

There is an NZ psychologist called Nigel Latta who has just made a series of 6 TV programmes about 'big' kiwi issues. One of these was about education. It was very good - see if you can find it on-line. (It was on TV One On Demand for a while - might still be there.)

Oh, and beach suburbs to the east of Auckland are nice alternatives to the North Shore. I have a liking for St Heliers.

Sorry it's taken me a while to get back - busy weekend!

Thanks donteven, I like the tips of buying mattresses out there and makes sense to fill a suitcase of toys. I suppose a couple of months without furniture isn't too terrible in the grand scheme of things.

Glad to hear it wasn't all about Auckland itself causing you to be unhappy japanese. Think we'll need to do some proper looking around for the right area for us. It would be greenlane/Auckland City hospital so thanks for confirming Epsom may be an ok commute whowould.

Thanks kakaka, the different attitude over there is one of the attractions. So often here people seem to want to sit back and complain rather than making the best of things. I think it would be great for kids to grow up thinking it's right to have a go and just do your best.

Thanks Aridane, good to hear the other side. I have been worried the schools may not prize academia as highly as over here, but the more I think about it the less I'm sure that's important. Better they have a good ethos to learning. Impossible to know without trying I guess.

Thanks plenty. I like the idea of the North shore, but also the idea of a short commute. Will have to have a look round.

I've had a look for that series byron and it seems to still be available so I'll take a look, thanks for the tip.

I really appreciate all the help, thank you.

I don't think NZ is any less academic, it's just not so snobby about it. You go to the UNI that best suits your needs. It's less about the 'name', more about the course iyswim.

With small children I'd definitely go for the North Shore. The beaches are great for kids and there are lots of clubs etc if you want them. Further north is nice too, but it depends how far you're (Dh at least!) is willing to commute daily. If he can work shifts or flexi the commute from the shore is fine. Rush hour it's a bit tiresome, but leave early, take coffee, find a radio station you like. It's no worse than the M4 here and worth it to live on the shore. It's beautiful scenery and the 'Ah' you feel driving back over the bridge at the end of the day will get him through the first few years of the commute!

Only bring mattresses if you have space to lay them flat, they tend to get ruined being stood on their side for weeks on end.

I'm going to post without reading all other posts so excuse me if I repeat what others have said!

Have been here 13 years. Married to a kiwi. Have 2 boys 15 and 10 so both at school. Let's get the negative over first....

It's a long and expensive trip back to the UK. You will miss out on key family events (births, deaths, watching nieces and nephews grow up). Family guilt can be huge. It's not the UK don't come expecting it to be the same. It takes everybody different time to settle and it took me a few years.

If you love culture - theatre, architecture etc... Auckland is somewhat lacking. You can't jump on a plane/train and immerse yourself in a different culture quickly and cheaply.

Now the pluses.........
Weather - yes it rains but summer is long and glorious

Auckland housing is expensive but like anywhere it depends on where you chose to live. If you are looking at AKL/Greenlane Hospitals you can live anywhere and easily commute. Everybody has their personal preference - I live South, we have a lifestyle block, commutable to City, train, ferry all within easy distance. I love the multicultural feel to the South (North and West don't do it for me). Could easily live in Mission Bay etc... but houses too close together for me, I love the feeling of space. I'm 20 mins from beautiful beaches, live semi-rural, so enjoy the best of everything. We paddle board after work in summer (tide permitting), have BBQs on the beach etc...Don't have a pool at this house, but putting one in. Boys have a few acres to run wild in (ponds, weeping willows, ducks, veggie garden etc...)

We have a beach house an hour away where we spend most of summer and odd weekends over winter. The boys surf, boogie board, we play tennis, bike ride. My boys enjoy everything I did growing up in the UK (many years ago!!! lol)

I have had no trouble getting work - have been head hunted for 3 jobs. I guess work depends on your field (I also work in health related field). I have been able to negotiate hours and work from home during school holidays.

Primary school is great, class sizes approx 20 children/class. I wasn't impressed with High School so DS1 went to private school for intermediate and year 9 (Cambridge system). He hated it. We moved him to a state school (with a good reputation) and he is thriving. Loves the subject choices and holistic learning environment. He's opted to take Electronics, Ecomomics, Business and Finance this year as his options.

Both boys play sport (rugby, soccer, touch and league depending on season), have had riding lessons, swimming lessons, the list is endless. Kids sports cheap and accessible.

Swimming pools in Auckland are free.

That's off the top of my head. I would tell anybody to give it a go - if it all goes wrong, you can go 'home'. For us it was the best thing we did for the family (NB if I didn't have the boys I would live in Europe and there is always the chance they will uproot and go to the UK at the first opportunity but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it....)

Will read rest of posts at some stage and see if there's anything else I can think of.

I was married to a Kiwi. Brother and sil have been in Wellington six years and have no intention of going back to the UK. Both DN's born there and they are very happy with health care and school. NZ has one of the most renowned primary school system in the world.

It has been a while since I lived in Auckland but I loved it. It is more expensive property wise but not extortionate everywhere. The main failing for me was the poor public transport and over dependency on cars. West coast Auckland oh I would live there again! North shore is lovely. Devonport is ridiculous but further up the coast is not so bad. I spent a happy year around Mission Bay which is Southend also rather expensive now but there are many areas of Auckland that are affordable and liveable. Shopping wise you can order most stuff from UK department stores if you miss anything, just be wary of a customs charge. The food is fresh and delicious and the wine there has ruined me for pretty much anything else customer service is fabulous.

The main downside was just really how far from everything it is. You really are a long way away and it's hard to appreciate that until you are there. Australia is a three hour flight. The arrival of Air Asia has helped open things up a bit but just popping anywhere asides from East Australia or some of the Pacific Islands is going to be a thing of the past. If you want to travel back to the UK /Europe regularly then budget for it.

On careers I found it much easier to find work than in the UK.

I'd go and try it out. What an experience you all will have!

Southend south it should say!