Separated from my French husband, joint custody of kids and I want to move back to the UK.

[AnxiousinFrance]

Hi everyone, I am new to mumsnet and I am hoping to hear from anyone who can advise me, give there point of view or just symphathise with me (in a similar situation) on a very difficult decision I have been contemplating for a while. But I am scared it might not be the right one?

So here goes, I have lived in France 7 years, I am 40yrs old and have 2 children 9 and 7. I was a stay at home mum keeping myself busy with raising the children and learning the language. My husband helped create a confortable lifestyle for us working as a structural engineer and has set up his own company working from home. We were tenants and did not own our own home. Gradually with the move, raising the children and feeling increasingly isolated with the language barrier, I started to have problems with my health, sufferering from bouts of depression and anxiety etc. Which eventually took its toll on our marriage, communication became difficult and my husband could no longer cope with my unhappiness. In desparation I tried to convince him we needed counselling but after one appointment it ended in disaster.

It all came to an end Jan 2013 when I filed for divorce out of anger and hurt. I didn't want to divorce but I felt my hand was being forced, as my husband did not want to save our marriage. Its been 9 months now since we have separated legally with joint custody of our kids, but as time has passed, I have become more isolated and now suffer badly with anxiety worrying about the future. I can no longer cope with day to day life and looking after my kids. I have no friends or support here and yet I am supposed to be actively seeking work in order to maintain social security benefits etc on top of the pension alimentaire (maintenance). This is just stresses me out even more and I am locked in a viscious cycle. I feel incapable of doing anything right now and I think the best thing for me is to limp home back to my parents so I can sort out my life. But want pains me so much is how it will affect my children? I can't take them with me but I feel like I will be abandoning them. I have made my feelings clear wih my husband but he doesn't want me to go for the sake of the kids. He is a good dad and has proved he can do the parenting by himself and he is in a better position than me to care for them. I am utterly lost and so anxious I don't know what to do?! I hope this post is coherent and I look forward to any helpful replies! Thanks in ernest!

I plan on seeking help when I am over there somehow or other. Visiting my old GP is the first step I guess. But I don't know if there will be a long waiting period for counselling? Especially if I am only planning on being over there a few weeks or more....Access to help in England is alot slower, its not like that in France. Trouble is finding an English speaking one!

Anxious, I feel for you, BTDT. It's so hard with young children in a foreign country without friends. I don't mean to pry, but somehow you sound as if you're still very hurt about the breakup. Is it a done deal? Would it help to have counselling alone in the UK perhaps? I just speak from my own experience, but my DH and I could have easily split up when our kids were young, because he found it really hard to respond to my emotional needs. He just didn't get the isolation/homesick thing and made himself emotionally unavailable - I think because he felt so guilty and responsible for my anguish, which made him withdraw. We managed to sort ourselves out but it took a long time (been married nearly 20 years now). I guess what I'm suggesting is to get counselling to learn that it's ok to feel that way, and take it from there.

There is "Message" it's an English speaking parents' forum. It's very Paris-centric but there might be people who can help you with the legal aspects of your situation. There might also be some people on there from your area too.

Hi deadduck, I am finding it very hard to let go because my husband has not been willing to work through our issues and I still feel he should at least give me that. To go to counselling together and talk through our problems before it ends in divorce (we are legally separated for 9 months now). You have described exactly how my husband is behaving! I hope you don't mind telling a bit about the process you went through? Did you separate and how did you start to communicate with one another again? We have been married 10 years and known each other 13 years.

Thanks Mindboggle, I will check out the site "Message". There is a british expat group in Nimes that I have known about for years but always been shy of going to it. It might be time to make contact I think?!

Hi Anxious,

I'm so sorry you are feeling so low.
Have you tried using the AngloInfo website/forum to search for some English/English speaking counselling?
There might be people local to you that can help.

I'm in France too so if you just want to chat to someone English on the phone, pm me and I'll give you my number.

To get myself through the next couple of weeks, my husband has agreed to let me have the kids, up until my daughter's op. I don't know if it will help or whether it's such a good idea? I am not doing a good job of looking after myself and the house of lately, but my husband being his usual helpful self has offered to help out with the house chores etc. I suppose I should feel conforted that he is there for me on a practical level.

I haven't booked the flight yet. Still undecided if I should go home or try to seek help here? I feel like I am just running away again and when I come back I will still have to face the same problems?! I am starting to sound a bit repetative!!! Someone knock some sense into me?!

anxious, we didn't separate, but were just about to, with my bags literally packed. Something must have clicked in his head and he pulled himself together, but also, I started to hide my anxieties and homesickness more from him (because he wasn't able to do anything about it anyway) and somehow we muddled through. In our case, it was at the beginning of our marriage, and we had the benefit that he really wanted to make it work (he was divorced already and didn't want to repeat the experience).
I don't know, but I just wonder, if you think there's still a chance, would it be worth looking at your husband from the angle that maybe it's his inability to change these fundamental things for you (like homesickness) that makes him paralyzed rather than him being unwilling to talk to you about it? Of course I don't know your exact circumstances, but I think if you are still invested in this marriage, it might be worth doing the counselling on your own to explore your feelings further.
I'm glad I stuck it out now, but it was hard as hell.
As for your initial question of leaving the kids behind, don't. I believe that you even consider it means you're depressed, and need help. Going back to the UK without them might seriously jeopardize your chances of getting them back into your care at a later point. I agree with everyone else, you need time out, counselling, but don't do anything radical. Stick it out until after your DD has recovered from her surgery, take a break then and talk to someone, ideally a professional.

Just to add, it's great that he's supportive on a practical level, and it doesn't matter if you neglect the house a bit. Going back for a bit is not running away. Stay amicable with him and be kind to yourself. Don't underestimate how hard an intercultural marriage and living in another country can be.

You might want help from both sides.
In the uk you will have the chance to talk to someone with the same culture references.
In France you will get long term support.

Re councelling you will have to go private. No way the NHS will be able to get you some sessions with that time frame.

deadduck, thankyou so much for sharing your story with me, it has helped me enormously. I know I do more damage to our broken relationship when I pore out all my emotions on my husband. Its hard to stay amicable with him at times and just recently he decscribed my behaviour like Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde!?

As for feeling homesick, I am not really homesick as such but my parents represent home for me, a safe place. I have just struggled to intergrate because all my insecurities hold me back from getting anywhere in life. I am amazed I even got this far?!

I can see a possible happy ending to all this but at the moment it all seems so far out of reach. If I can get my life together, perhaps my husband will want to give it another go? Is it wrong of my husband to only want to consider reconcilling on the principe that I find employment? He just wants me to be more independent and not a stay at home mum?! There's another thought to ponder over?!

I'm glad it helped, anxious. Of course if your husband phrases it like that, it sounds horrible. I've not got much experience with French men so don't know how to interpret that with the right cultural reference, if you know what I mean. I am guessing he wants you happy and settled, and not emotionally dependent on him. Maybe he thinks work would get you out of isolation, because you'd be forced to interact with people? I'm not condoning this, btw, just trying to look at it from his perspective. In any case, any reconciliation should be on mutual grounds, and he can't be calling the shots!
Just a suggestion, why don't you open up a thread in the relationship section on mumsnet? There is much more traffic there and some really brilliant people who give great advice.

Good Morning Anxious, how are you feeling today?

Personally I think it is wrong of your husband to only want to reconcile if you find a job. If this is the case and you accept that than the least he can do is help you with your CV etc. I imagine (could be wrong) that it is difficult enough finding employment at the moment in France and even more so for a non-native, I think most people need all the help they can get. And anyway if you are feeling low, anxious and lacking in confidence then I can imagine what a struggle it will be. I think you need to reach an even keel emotionally first before you embark on a job hunt and not viceversa. Does your husband realise any of this?

I am sorry if I sound harsh but his comment has really irritated me

Hi Bebespain, still the same feelings of anxiety every morning when my mind starts racing, all the things that need doing that I have let go recently. Stressing a bit about having the kids from tomorrow, getting into the routine again etc. My husband has promised to help with getting in shopping and help with some housework tomorrow too. So he is realising I am struggling but he doesn't necessarily understand why it stops me from concentrating on other projects etc?!

Whats hanging over me right now is the Pole Emploi. I feel forced to complete an accompagnement back to work! A weekly RDV one to one and group sessions! I have already missed one with a letter from the doctor explaining poor health but it only covered me for that one RDV. I need to contact them to find out what will happen if I don't continue?

On a more positive note, I have made the RDV to see a Psychiatrist next tuesday (21 jan) and my husband will come along just for the initial assessment etc. Voilà, thanks again for your support bebespain!

just to clarify, bebespain, I completely agree, the comment IS wrong. I was just trying to think what on earth could go on in his head to come up with something like that!
Anxious, well done, great you've got an appointment with a psychiatrist. That's a good start!

Hi deadduck, its good to know I am not paranoid about this issue! My parents don't understand it either, and as you suggested it probably is cultural. I haven't mentioned before, but my husband did explain the reasons why, that being, his mum never worked and he suffered years listening to his parents arguing and subsequently they divorced after he left home! So its understandable he has this strong principle, he doesn't want to repeat history! Its just seems so unfair, that he can't get past that, he would rather walk away than fix what went wrong in our marriage. I am to blame alot really because I have become emotionally dependant on him. I could go on forever about this, trying to analyse everything. Anyway, that should help clarify whats going on in HIS head!

Hi Anxious,

I am not sure I can add much to the good advice that you have already had. I am English, living in England, although we do spend a lot of time in France, so I do understand some of the cultural differences.

My mother was Irish, lived in England and didn't work. Partly because of the times, but when we were at school, and then away at university, she was so bored. She was depressed and drank. I strongly wish (with hindsight) she had more interests, and yes, a job. Might not have solved all her issues, but would have been worth a go! This may not be relevant to you, so apologies if it is upsetting.

I can identify slightly with what your H says about working or getting a job - although it does sound as though he is a bit tactless. I was off for 3 years before going back, and had lost confidence totally in my abilities. My DH strongly encouraged me to go back to work, have interviews etc, and ultimately it was a good decision. Most of the work on CVs was done by me, but he did help and we did interview practice etc. 6 years down the line, I am very happy. However at the time I was definitely a bit depressed and couldn't see a way out of it.

You don't have a job, and it doesn't sound as though you have a great social life - you must feel very isolated, lonely and sad. If he supported you in achieving these goals, would it help? He does sound as though he has many good qualities, perhaps you could meet him half way?

Hi Johnogroats,

Thank you for your insight, I know in time I will eventually get there in achieving these goals. I just hate the fact that I am making it a long tortuous process!? My first goal is to stop these feelings of anxiety (at least manage them) so I can cope with the daily routine again!

My husband is a good man and I know he will always do the right thing by me. I know it's down to me to make theses changes I so desparately need. I have hit rock bottom and managed to build a life for myself once before, so I can certainly do it again! Doesn't make make it anyless harder though. I am just scared that IFI do make all these changes, my husband STILL won't want to reconcile? And how will I cope then?

But that's the anxiety, anxious, the thinking about ifs and buts. You can't figure out what exactly is going to happen, no matter how hard you try. Reality is if, you pull yourself out of this, things will fall into place and you WILL cope either way. With or without your husband. Don't make your getting better dependent on what he might or might not do.

Hi, so sorry to read you are going through this. I am English and have always lived in London but do have the experience of going through a divorce. I found it emotionally shattering as I really loved my ex DH even though the marriage was not good at all. There was no one else involved and he still left even though I begged him to stay. There were two DC of the marriage at the time 2 and 5. He has now remarried to a much younger woman and has 2 new DC. TBH I have never really managed to get over the split, I have not had any proper new relationships, mainly due to being too busy with the DCs and also terrified of being hurt so badly again. I have continued to work hard and life wizzes past, I think I am too old and fat to have a new r/ship now! However although things have been hard I do derive some satisfaction from being a gd mother and bread winner.

My recommendation is anti depressants - don't be ashamed to use them. Take a break back in the UK for a couple of weeks to re charge batteries. Life will be very hard for a fair while I think but you know ultimately you have to be there for your DCs, they need their mum!! It sounds like your marriage is over to me, I totally emphasise with the despair that you feel, this is perfectly natural so all you can do is accept it. I know it is harder being in France but what you are going through is similar to what millions of people go thru and you probably would have been just as gutted and unhappy in the UK (I know I was). Accept there are no easy answers, just concentrate on yourself and the children and slowly start to learn French. The only other tip I have after 10 years of being divorced is that the less contact you have with your DH the better. I leant on my ex emotionally for years, hoping that the relationship might start again, I dreamt of him and discussed everything with him. This is a MASSIVE mistake, you need to be polite and discuss matters re the DCs constructively but other than that no contact. I would also recomend that you leave the marital home behind asap - too many memories I think. Bit of a stream of consciousness but I really wish you all the luck in the world!

I am just scared that IF I do make all these changes, my husband STILL won't want to reconcile? And how will I cope then?

Whatever changes you are going to make you need to do them for yourself.
For you because yo are 'worth it' (Hollow laugh) because you deserve to have a life where you are happy. And because a happyish mum will also be so much better for your dcs too.

If your DH then want to reconcile it will be a bonus. and he is likely to be keener of being with you if he sees you moving on wo him anyway

Hi Londonlad48, thankyou for sharing your thoughts. I think what makes this all hard for me is I don't know who I am without my husband?! And I can't fonction without him either! I did think it would be best to keep minimal contact to help me detach myself emotionally but my husband hasn't made it very easy. What with joint custody all the hassle of sharing the kids belongings etc! And we still go out and do things together as a family so things are as normal as possible for the kids. Its probably doing more damage having all this contact with him because it still feels like we are together but living in separate homes. And as you said it isn't easy staying in the marital home with all the memories etc. I hate that my husband lives in a new place and can start a fresh.

I have to accept the fact that France will be my home now, and I have to get better, find a life and a way of supporting myself for ME. I get it. Just seems so hard when all I want is to be a family again! Sad I know.

You definately need to stop doing things together as a family. It is confusing for the DCs and very unhelpful for you. The sooner you disconect with ex DH the better. You can and will start a new life for yourself. I made a big mistake spending hours talking with my ex DH for years. Result of that was that I never moved on emotionally whereas he had long time ago. I dare say it was nice for him to know that he had an adoring ex wife talking to him so why should he stop things and I craved the comfort. I can't say what a big error I made in this, it was my fault not his. Who knows perhaps I might even have been able to make a new relationship while I was younger and reasonably attractive.

Iy sounds like your ex dh is a decent guy who wants to establish civilised relationship with you for the sake of the DCs. This is really good and bodes well for the future - there are plenty of people around with crazy/horrible exs which is a nightmare. Like me you have to carry on for the sake of the DCs and you also need to start regaining a bit of dignity for yourself. Sometimes marriages don't work out however much we try - it takes two to tango and if one person decides its over, its over. All the left person can do is accept that they have lost and retreat from the scene so to speak to lick their wounds. This is one of the hardest things in life I know, if I was speaking to my 38 year old self now I would say: move out of the marital house at all costs, cut off contact with my ex DH as much as possible whilst retaining polite constructive relationship regarding DCs. Look after myself better and try and get out there and find a new partner once the dust has settled. Also seek out some form of counselling and take anti depressants rather than hitting the bottle which is always very tempting.

It's not sad it's normal Anxious.
And spending time together as a family isn't good. Not good for you but not good for the dcs either. How on earth are they suppose to understand that you're separated, don't do things the same way etc... if you carry on spending time 'as a family' on such a regular basis.

I would suggest you post on the Relationship threads too. The fact that you are abroad is an issue but there are also some issues there re your divorce and how to handle it. I am sure you would get some good support there too.

Agree with FreshCucumber on this - relationship threads are a really good place to talk about these issues. The feelings are the same whatever country you live in and totally normal, you are not "sad" you are just experiencing an unwanted marriage breakup which is one of the most stressful things humans can go through. There will be loads of French ladies going through exactly the same thing (some of them even go to hospital for a week!) - perhaps you could try and meet a few? This would help your French and there is nothing like bonding over a traumatic experience to bring people together whatever the culture. Personally I think the cultural difference thing can be overstated.

France is a fantastic country, better health care and social benefits than UK that is for sure. If you ex is being decent could you ask him to pay for tickets back to UK several times a year for you and the DCs? This would be a practical thing he could do and I think it would help you having something booked in the diary. What about a week at Easter and plans for a few weeks over the summer? To state a total cliche, all we can do is walk on with hope in our hearts, things will get better for you but it will take time. Good luck!!