What are your PROs and CONs of living in France?

[theQuibbler]

DH wants our family to relocate back to France. He's French, has had enough of the UK and basically wants to go home.

There are quite a lot of issues that I am uneasy about, but they are not necessarily insurmountable. DH would, ideally, like to go back to his village which is very small, rural and full of his family. I grew up in London and have always lived in big cities, (Manhattan, London, Geneva) and I don't particularly care for the idea of village life. We've been together long enough and I have visited there often enough to know that I would struggle with such close proximity and what it would entail. A small town would suit me much better and I would argue the case.

But what really concerns me is the French educational system. My little boy is 6 and it has become obvious that he has mild learning disabilities. I don't think they are enough to get him a statement, but he needs a lot of extra help with phonics and maths and he needs much patience and repetition to understand what is expected of him in the classroom. He is a very slow learner.

He is at a brilliant school that picked up his difficulties very quickly and have swung into action with his IEP, sessions with a SALT, extra lessons with one on one teaching and just a high level of intervention and support and encouragement to bring him on. We've stayed where we are (in our heinously expensive bit of central London), even though we would quite like to move to somewhere less crippling, because I'm not sure this would be so accessible at another school. And that's one of my biggest worries about France. From what I've heard and seen, it's more about supporting the best and well, almost sidelining the rest. DH is not much use because he went through the system without his difficulties (which he says he recognises in our son) being addressed and so did not have a good experience. I'm concerned that even a year out (as a trial period in France) could have a negative impact on his learning.

I just wondered if anyone had any experience with children that might have LDs and how they are treated by the system? Or any info about where I could go to find out more? (He's bilingual in that he can understand everything in French, but won't really speak it unless he's forced to - after a week or two in France when we are on holiday and he's playing with his cousins, he starts to forget English words! But I think that's quite normal at his age).

Also, I'm just really interested in what you like about living in France, wherever you may be, and what bits of it that you are less thrilled about, if you don't mind detailing them.

Wow! Sorry for the essay
TIA.

"This is time consuming and expensive."

wordfactory said it.

We moved to France from the UK nearly 6 years ago. DD was just 9, and left in year 4 and arrived in year 5 because her birthday is October.

About a year ago we realised that she may have PDA - an asd. She has progressed through the French system without redoublement, although she is quite immature for her age and won't be 15 until after she goes to lycée in September. She was regarded as having special emotional needs in the UK and had been a school-refuser.

hth

Bonsoir do most people in France recognise the need the supplement? Or do they not worry?

The shadow education industry is massive here. Some aspects are totally upfront: conservatoire, sports clubs etc are a normal part of life and children have always been signed up to these on Wednesdays when there is no school. But the aspects of shadow education that supplement school are more of a well-kept secret (or collective denial?). I'm an odd-woman-out in that I make no bones about all the extras we buy for our DC.

That's interesting. So there's a full scale acceptance that the system needs to be supplemented, but not the will to change the system.

I do not believe there is full scale acceptance that the system needs to be supplemented, any more so than the UK despite the fact plenty of kids get outside tutors in to get them into the best schools.

My girls do sports outside of school, but then I guess there aren't many UK schools that offer horse riding as part of the ciriculum. I certainly don't feel the need to supplement any further than that.(Nor do any of my friends). I don't think my drama class at school added anything at all to my education so it is hardly a great loss.

There is a different perception of the role of parents and the role of school. For many people, the system doesn't need fundamental change, just performance improvement (better, or more usually more, teaching of the existing NC). It is the role of families, not school, to ensure children are taught music, sports, art etc.

The shadow education industry grew up as a tutoring industry for those children who were failing to keep up. The way it is now developing, as an industry for those who wish to get a step ahead, doesn't mean parents want school to change - they just want to buy advantage for their own DCs.

DD does extra-curricular drama (offered, in English, by her school on Wednesday afternoons). It adds very, very considerably to her education IMO.

French my DD is currently rehearsing herole in the school production of The Tempest. I can assure you that she is getting huge amounts from it.

Perhaps you had very poor drama lessons?

I only have hearsay to add to the debate. In a previous recent job I had a French colleague who thought he'd won the lottery when he put his dcs into state school in the UK. He couldn't believe how much better they were compared to his experience of state schools in France. So much so that he intends to stay here until the dcs have left school, which wasn't his original intention.

Another one here with thriving dcs in the French ( state system). We were blown away by the maternelle, thought it couldn't be bettered, and dreaded the move to primaire. Which was just as nurturing. Packed with every sport under the sun - fencing, swimming, rugby, hockey, orienteering. Fabulous projets d'ecole, vegetable patch , silk worms, fabulous drama workshops, German .... I could go on and on. My dd refused to speak in psm, and they were on the ball straight away with a specialised teacher who worked with her on a one to one until she took off.

I taught for many years in the UK, taught in an International school, am now in a Bilingual school, and I know what to look for. I accept that we may be unbelievably lucky, though not unique, as many friends are equally delighted with their own schools.

I think this thread has illustrated that although recounting your personal experiences of a school can sometimes be helpful and comparing a whole system is also sometimes useful, you should really only rely on your own views on schools and schooling - what one person dislikes might be the next person's cup of tea.

The shadow education industry is not limited to France surely? My sister runs herself ragged in the UK ferrying her brood from pillar to post, and paying for various tutors. Don't most parents?

pinkhousesarebest

It's really great that your experience has been so positive. As for the not talking in PS, I know of many children of Anglo oarents who arrive in PS with little of no French. I know of at least two families who have had a horrendous PS year with PS teachers telling them to stop speaking English at home as the child cannot speak French and their bilingualism is hindering them. Luckily , these parents have i formed themselves and ignored this "advice" but it has been a painful and exasperating experience all round, not least for the kids. One of the little girls is now in CM1 and top of her class with fantastic bilingual skills, beautiful French, exquisite handwriting and a wide group of friends. So, she has thrived in the French system. But she had a very roughh start.

And my point is that deviating from the norm (by speaking two languages or having special needs or being extremely shy etc.) is not always easy in the Frwnch system.

My own view is that the sytem here works extremely well for those who are round pegs who fit into round holes.

But the thriving tutoring at home sector (Acadomia and the like) suggests that there is a real need for supplementing the hardcore academic side, which, in theory, is the one thing the French system prides itself on.

I have never heard of a maternelle / primary offering fencing, orienteering, hockey or rugby although our school does roller skating during the school day and after hours ballet.

Oh my children do their fencing and rugby now, in primaire, though I do have a friend whose child does horse riding at the local centre d'equestre in maternelle!
You do know, don't you, that the French system still relies heavily on redoublement for kids who do not achieve the pre-defined level? And then they re-do the year, using the same methods, same materials, often the same teacher and expect a different outcome. Even maternelle and primaire kids are subject to the threat of redoublement.

Things have evolved somewhat over the last three years. Redoublement still happens of course, but having been present at many conseils de classe, I can say that it is a last resort. Any child in difficulty will have two hours of extra help a week, usually in groups of two or three, and a stage remise a niveau during the holidays. If anything, many teachers feel that the system is heavily weighted in favour of those in difficulty while the more adept are left to their own devices.

I know of two children this year who are being threatened with redoublement of Grande Section. Both sets of parents are being told very emphatically that their children ne sont pas prêt pour le CP and, IMVHO, both children have special needs which are not being addressed in any real sense, but just being kept back a year. Both received non specialised soutien from la maîtresse.

But I suppose this goes back to the original question about how special needs are addressed in the French system. And sadly, with the scaling back of the Rased due to cutbacks, those with SEN will not have as much help as they need...... Unless things change now with Hollande.

pinkhousesarebest - redoublement is still shockingly high in France, as is the transfer of pupils to other schools when they fail to make the desired grade (the statistics for this are much harder to establish).

I think we find it shocking because it is something that doesn't happen anywhere else, and it often doesn't have the desired effect anyway. In my experience of my own school, and that of my children, there is a handful of redoublements, not a horde. The same for the infamous saut de classe.

Totally in agreement though with the cynical fudging and ousting and managing that produces excellent brevet/bac results in the private system. Am rather dreading this next stage.

For me, it us only the fact that redoublement rarely has the intended effect that makes me question it, not that it only happens here.

37% of French schoolchildren repeat at least one school year in the course of their education. That is not rare - and France is up there with a handful of countries with similarly high figures. 3% of British schoolchildren repeat a school year in the course of their education and the UK is one of the countries where repeating a year happens the least. There is every distribution in between across the globe - it does happen elsewhere.

Redoublement is a natural consequence of a school system based on a set annual programme of instruction that a pupil needs to demonstrate he/she has mastered to a minimum level before proceeding.

It is not redoublement that doesn't have the desired effect - it is the whole premise of the system (which TruthTeller put very neatly in an earlier post) that doesn't work, IMVHO.

Redoublement is not a punishment. It is a way of recognising that not all children work at the same speed and not all children are ready for the next step at the same time.

I have seen children positively thive after redoubling, and I have seen one boy suffer badly as his mother fought hard for him not to redouble his CP year despite the fact he really needed the extra time to master reading.

Thrive not thive obviously.

I did some research a while back and for French speaking Belgium, it was around 25% of children had doubled a year by the end of primaire aged 12 and around 50% had doubled a year by the end of secondaire aged 18.

The figures will improve in Belgium, as now special permission is needed and also with the parents' agreement to repeat certain years in primaire and maternelle. Just a brief read of the FB group linked to "on acheve bien les ecoliers" shows that attitudes amongst parents and professionals in France are changing against doubling as a means of helping those children who are struggling. But we mustn't forget that the British system of differentiation within the same classroom is often less than successful too, ie those who start off struggling often remain struggling, but some of that may be down to the background that the children are brought up in, rather than a failure to help these children in school.