What are your PROs and CONs of living in France?

[theQuibbler]

DH wants our family to relocate back to France. He's French, has had enough of the UK and basically wants to go home.

There are quite a lot of issues that I am uneasy about, but they are not necessarily insurmountable. DH would, ideally, like to go back to his village which is very small, rural and full of his family. I grew up in London and have always lived in big cities, (Manhattan, London, Geneva) and I don't particularly care for the idea of village life. We've been together long enough and I have visited there often enough to know that I would struggle with such close proximity and what it would entail. A small town would suit me much better and I would argue the case.

But what really concerns me is the French educational system. My little boy is 6 and it has become obvious that he has mild learning disabilities. I don't think they are enough to get him a statement, but he needs a lot of extra help with phonics and maths and he needs much patience and repetition to understand what is expected of him in the classroom. He is a very slow learner.

He is at a brilliant school that picked up his difficulties very quickly and have swung into action with his IEP, sessions with a SALT, extra lessons with one on one teaching and just a high level of intervention and support and encouragement to bring him on. We've stayed where we are (in our heinously expensive bit of central London), even though we would quite like to move to somewhere less crippling, because I'm not sure this would be so accessible at another school. And that's one of my biggest worries about France. From what I've heard and seen, it's more about supporting the best and well, almost sidelining the rest. DH is not much use because he went through the system without his difficulties (which he says he recognises in our son) being addressed and so did not have a good experience. I'm concerned that even a year out (as a trial period in France) could have a negative impact on his learning.

I just wondered if anyone had any experience with children that might have LDs and how they are treated by the system? Or any info about where I could go to find out more? (He's bilingual in that he can understand everything in French, but won't really speak it unless he's forced to - after a week or two in France when we are on holiday and he's playing with his cousins, he starts to forget English words! But I think that's quite normal at his age).

Also, I'm just really interested in what you like about living in France, wherever you may be, and what bits of it that you are less thrilled about, if you don't mind detailing them.

Wow! Sorry for the essay
TIA.

[marthadm]

Hello,
I have just seen your post and wondered what happened? I moved to France last year with very similar reservations and similar circumstances and am still not sure whether the school system is right for my son. If you did move, it would be good to hear about your experience to date.

[Bonsoir]

is not surrounded

[Bonsoir]

My DD is surrounded by the same culture of reading that I was surrounded by as a child, that's for sure, but she does like to read - she'll read a quick chapter before school if she is ready and dressed before time and she always reads in bed at night. There are other calls on her "story time" that there weren't on mine - she loves DVDs (period drama type especially) and she loves listening to CDs of children's classics while playing eg with her doll's house.

[pinkhousesarebest]

Yes mine are the same Bonsoir. But they don't love reading, at least, not the way I did and do. They love me to read to them at night still, but will never go off and get a book and read without prompting.

[Bonsoir]

pinkhousesarebest - yes, all children (from MT English/bilingual to beginners) are not supposed to read or write at all in English until CE1. Fortunately I knew that was all a load of B* so got DD started off on reading in English in MS and she has done beautifully with no stress at all. Her English reading and writing are better than her French reading and writing.

[LeBFG]

[hattymattie]

Just to underline what you quoted on transfer of skills BFG my son in CM1 just got 20 for his comprehension - which was the first they'd done as a class. He said his teacher asked him how he knew what to do and he said he did it all the time in English. (one happy mamma ).

[LeBFG]

Starting to read a foreign language at 7 doesn't seem too late to me. Hell, I belong to the generation where we didn't start any French at all until 11.

Bonsoir's DC are in a bilingual school so I'm shocked they don't start reading the two languages at the same age. The quote above shows they do better at reading in BOTH languages if they learn to read both languages at the same age.

I was vaguely aware that lower ability DC do better when the have tasks are repeatative, things like copying, learning by rote...but it was a while since I did teacher training now. With the french system, I have to admit I have some reservations about stretching more able DC, rather than meeting the needs of lower abilities...

[Greythorne]

I went to see our GS teacher on an issue unrelated to reading and in conversation mentioned that DD1 can read in English. The teacher - who I like and respect - looked sceptical and said, "en classe, elle ne demontre absolument pas qu'elle sait lire". Be that as it may, I replied, she can read in English.

That night, she pulled me aside and told me she had tested DD and yes! She can read!

Er, yes, I replied, I know, that's what I told you.

But, even though she knows DD1 can read, she has made no attempt to get her started in French reading, no extension work, no encouragement, nothing. Which I expected. Because, as I know, CP is when we learn to read.

It is very odd to my mind that there's no scope to treat children in any way as individuals who progress at a non-linear pace. I feel lucky that my DD1 seems to be above average so she is sailing along very nicely but I am still baffled by thelack of flexibility. And that's why I agree with Bonsoir and others that the French system is ill-suited to those with LD.

[pinkhousesarebest]

Do you mean Bonsoir that they will not read in English until CE1? Blimey that's very late.

[pinkhousesarebest]

Our pretty enlightened directrice advised me to teach ours to read in English in MS, to avoid any confusion the following year with pre-reading in GS. It worked well, and if anything made reading in French easier as they seemed to transfer their skills from one to the other without too much complication.

[mummytime]

Btw the English NC is not becoming more like the French. First the foreign language thing was supposed to come in with the last government, this one scrapped it and is now reviving it (having created chaos over it in the meantime). Learning a poem, well my DC have learnt various things off by heart at their infants, despite it not being trendy or thought desirable, it's just the clock turning back again, I doubt the next generation will learn to recite Longfellow as my Mother did (maybe a pity?).
Finally whatever Gove does will have limited impact, as he is also pushing schools to become academies, and academies don't have to follow the NC.

I have a dyslexic son, who is now doing quite well at his GCSEs. At one point we nearly had to relocate to France, I was very concerned about him coping in the French system and would have wanted him at either a US school or another private school I found near Paris. But he would have especially struggled as his greatest difficulty was writing, which I don't believe French schools could have handled.

[LeBFG]

I have all this to look forward to. A quote from an interesting study:

In the study, the bilingual children were all learning to read in both languages at the same time, [they] thought it might be the additional practice of learning to read that accounted for the bilingual children's advantage. But the results surprisingly showed that the bilingual kids' advantage was independent of instruction time in the other language. ..[there was an] additional advantage of applying the concepts of reading that they learn to their two languages, enhancing both and boosting their passage into literacy."

[Bonsoir]

I know, hattymattie. What really annoys me is that the school makes DCs who are much better at English than French learn to read in French first, which is so difficult for them, and actually tells parents not to let their DCs try to read in English until they have mastered reading in French. Madness, and it clearly creates lots of difficulties for the children who end up learning to read/write very slowly and with great difficulty in both languages.

[hattymattie]

Hello Bonsoir - Nearly all the children I know including my own have had no problem with the two languages. I've seen this attitude in purely French schools with inexperienced teachers but am shocked at it coming from a bilingual school. Even the dreaded 'Ermitage' starts them off in English in the maternal.

[Bonsoir]

hattymattie - DD is at a "bilingual school" that likes to pretend that it is too difficult and confusing for DCs to learn to read/write in two languages simultaneously (actually, it's just laziness on the school's part). By teaching her to read/write in English I show the school up... Not good.

[hattymattie]

Bonsoir - shocked at your teachers scolding you for teaching your DD to read and write in English. My Directrice lets me give my kids workbooks which they do in the back of English class. She has always been great about this. I'm in a private catholic school.

Thank you also for telling me that "surdouee" just means bright - I just realised I may have surdouee kids . I can never believe the amount of French parents who want to tell me about their gifted children!

Our experience of the French education system has been relatively good - but I think in Paris West they are used to mixed nationality children and so more open. I cannot comment on SN but I did have a friend who had a dyslexic child who was told to leave L'Ermitage, she then tried the Steiner School at Chatou - same story and in the end went back to the UK.

[walkthedinosaur]

I live in rural France and have a DC with SEN; ASD, dyslexia and dyspraxia. He goes to a private catholic school and started school when he was 31/2.

His years in maternelle were fine but it was obvious by the time he got to CP that he was having problems. I personally requested that he redouble CP because I didn't think he had got to grips with the basics, but the teachers assured me that he was fine to move to CE1. CE1 was a horrendous year for him and for me (and I expect for his teacher) and many times I considered moving back to the UK, however it was in this year that school began to make the necessary steps to get him the help he needs. The directrice was wonderful, she did everything for me because of my language problems, she helped me get DC1 enrolled with an organisation which helps autistic children which he attends twice a week (and who have worked wonders) she also, with the help of the educational psychologist and loads of other parties involved in the care of my DC got him a special AVS for 1:1 attention in the classroom. His dyslexia was so bad that they were allowed to scribe for him, but DS was determined to have a go himself and they've never needed to do that.

His results for the tests in CE1 the first year were dreadful because he simply wrote his name at the front of the booklet and then only did the maths questions.

We agreed he would redouble CE1 with his AVS to help him and what a difference two years have made. He has gone from undoubtedly the bottom of the class to the top, he now has confidence in his schoolwork and joins in happily in classroom activities, he has his AVS and we have been awarded funding for another year. With the help of orthophoniste and psychomotricienne and also the infirmieres at the local hospital, he can hold a pen and write, his co-ordination is much better, the AVS helps him concentrate and he is now able to form social relationships with his peers (he still can't catch a ball though). His spelling is still rubbish though and he'll never get 10/10 on a dictee, although these days only about 3 faults is the norm, which again is brilliant for him.

When my son redoubled the school made every effort to keep him with his classmates so that he did not feel left out, so he has always stayed with his peers while slowly being introduced to other children now within his school year. The school took into consideration his problems with change and have handled it sensitively and compassionately. At no point was he told he had redoubled because he was stupid.

However, no concessions were made for him until the school had the piece of paper with his diagnosis in their hands and like I say his first year of CE1 was an absolute nightmare and a very stressful time for me.


I have friends in the UK with a child with ADHD and they had to take their local authority to court to get their DC 1 to 1 classroom support that he needed.

So having a child with SEN in the French system could be difficult at first, for me it has worked out well and I really don't think I or my DS would have been given the support that we receive in France in the UK. I would say speak to the school and listen to its policies, my DS was the first child that they'd ever made an application for an AVS for in my school, I'm so glad that they did.

[Bonsoir]

Thank you

[Greythorne]

theQuibbler
your DH sounds like a good chap. It would be horrible if he were intent on coming home to France and you had reservations about your son's education.

Sounds like your son is in the right pkace to get the support he needs to fulfill his potential.

[sommewhereelse]

I heard on Radio 4 this morning that there are plans to change the National Curriculum. It seems like it would be more like the French one afterwards:
Independent article

We got our CE1 results on Thursday (during the meeting).

[pinkhousesarebest]

Actually I have just checked, and it was from last Monday.

[pinkhousesarebest]

From what I understand, it should have been sometime during this last week....

[Bonsoir]

Thanks, pinkhousesarebest. Do you know (being an insider and all that...) whether there is any kind of national timetable that schools have to adhere to for informing parents of results?

[pinkhousesarebest]

Gosh, didn't know it was so expensive now. I left in 2003.

We got our results on Tuesday Bonsoir. We have a class meeting tomorrow night to discuss results with the teacher, though I know it doesn't happen everywhere.