What are your PROs and CONs of living in France?

[theQuibbler]

DH wants our family to relocate back to France. He's French, has had enough of the UK and basically wants to go home.

There are quite a lot of issues that I am uneasy about, but they are not necessarily insurmountable. DH would, ideally, like to go back to his village which is very small, rural and full of his family. I grew up in London and have always lived in big cities, (Manhattan, London, Geneva) and I don't particularly care for the idea of village life. We've been together long enough and I have visited there often enough to know that I would struggle with such close proximity and what it would entail. A small town would suit me much better and I would argue the case.

But what really concerns me is the French educational system. My little boy is 6 and it has become obvious that he has mild learning disabilities. I don't think they are enough to get him a statement, but he needs a lot of extra help with phonics and maths and he needs much patience and repetition to understand what is expected of him in the classroom. He is a very slow learner.

He is at a brilliant school that picked up his difficulties very quickly and have swung into action with his IEP, sessions with a SALT, extra lessons with one on one teaching and just a high level of intervention and support and encouragement to bring him on. We've stayed where we are (in our heinously expensive bit of central London), even though we would quite like to move to somewhere less crippling, because I'm not sure this would be so accessible at another school. And that's one of my biggest worries about France. From what I've heard and seen, it's more about supporting the best and well, almost sidelining the rest. DH is not much use because he went through the system without his difficulties (which he says he recognises in our son) being addressed and so did not have a good experience. I'm concerned that even a year out (as a trial period in France) could have a negative impact on his learning.

I just wondered if anyone had any experience with children that might have LDs and how they are treated by the system? Or any info about where I could go to find out more? (He's bilingual in that he can understand everything in French, but won't really speak it unless he's forced to - after a week or two in France when we are on holiday and he's playing with his cousins, he starts to forget English words! But I think that's quite normal at his age).

Also, I'm just really interested in what you like about living in France, wherever you may be, and what bits of it that you are less thrilled about, if you don't mind detailing them.

Wow! Sorry for the essay
TIA.

[pinkhousesarebest]

As a teacher in primaire, I find the competences scolaires a helpful teaching tool actually, allowing me to really focus on how each child is functioning all the way through the year. It also helps me address any difficulties my dcs are having immediately.

We have just received a paper confirming the passage of the dc, and there is here too an option for parental refusal, in which case there is a tribunal of sorts. Who holds eventual sway I am not sure.

[pinkhousesarebest]

Pretty impressive figures, but then I guess redoublement figures in Saint Denis would differ from those of Neuilly. It would be interesting to see a breakdown of stats.

[Bonsoir]

One of the big problems that a system where redoublement is common and easy for a school to implement, and also a system where it is easy for high performing schools to manage their lower performing pupils out, is that there isn't the same onus on the school and on teachers to help children succeed. I don't think much of French teaching standards (and I have been subjected to them either personally or through my children for quite a long time now!) and I suspect one of the reasons that they fail to develop is that there just isn't the same onus on teachers to help their pupils through that there is in the UK.

[IndigoBell]

OP - it really does depend on whether you think repeating a year (or 3) is a good thing or not.

In the UK he won't be allowed to repeat a year - even if you want him to.
In France he may well be forced to repeat. And there is no limit to how many years he'll be forced to repeat.

There is no way I'd choose France for a child with SEN.

[pinkhousesarebest]

BonsoirIn my experience redoublement is a last resort, and teachers will take into account many factors before giving the ok. It is not a knee jerk reaction. If a student is consistently failing the competences scolaires, which are not exactly rocket science, there is a problem. If that is because of LD a redoublement will not be beneficial. If it is a child who has a birthday just before the cut-off in December, and who is massively immature, that can be a completely different story. I have seen some really successful cases.

I obviously find the teachers here to be massively motivated and professional. My dcs spend a few weeks every year at school in the Uk during some of the holidays, love it of course, and do well. But I have seen some pretty sloppy examples of classroom practice. I was there for ten years and things have not changed that much. Give me a bit of rigueur any day!

[IndigoBell]

If that is because of LD a redoublement will not be beneficial. - so what do French schools do for children with LDs??????????

[CoteDAzur]

As everyone else said, I would not consider moving to France if I had DC with SEN. Especially in a rural school, you will get no help from the system and won't even have private options.

My DD (7) is thriving in French system and we have recently been told that she can skip a year (I didn't realise this was such an honour although school was a bit weird when we declined). If she didn't, though, we have several international schools in our vicinity, where there is much better support for kids with different requirements.

If you absolutely need to move to France, start looking into SEN support in Paris. If you don't find it satisfactory there, I honestly don't think you will find better anywhere else in France.

[CoteDAzur]

However, if you find SEN support, one major "pro" of living in France would be that it will almost certainly be entirely covered by social security.

[Bonsoir]

I think you are talking about primary school, pinkhousesarebest, where redoublement is now much rarer than it was - though there are, indeed, cases of redoublement in GS and CP where children are clearly too (physiologically) immature to be kept with their year group.

Redoublement is much more common in collège and lycée.

[LeBFG]

I live in rural france, OP, and don't really agree with the SEN issues expressed here. In the local maternelles class sizes are so small that there is plenty of one-to-one help. And I'm sure the very lovely teachers I meet would be outraged to hear some opinions on here about how there is no obligation to help the DC - they do it because they care A local boy, for instance, has pretty important dyslexic needs and the parents are extremely pleased with how his needs are being met.

There would be two concerns I would have wrt education. The first: here, the collèges and lycées are pretty poor. They are catholic in the main and, because pupils board, they attract many city kids booted out of other schools. The second: english expats' DC very often take a year or more to settle in (even the young ones, though there is a general denial of this amongst expats). Simply this disruption with a SEN child would make me very hesitant to move.

If you are unsure, OP, about rural life, I would be very concerned about how you would settle in. Here in the SW, life is very rural, and not of the scale of UK rural either. We really wanted isolation - but even my DH has had to come to terms just how isolated it is (40mins from hospital, no decent jobs within an hour and a half's drive). There are pluses (more community spirit), but it's a compromise - many expats leave after a year or so.

[Greythorne]

pinkseahouses
In my experience redoublement is a last resort, and teachers will take into account many factors before giving the ok. It is not a knee jerk reaction. If a student is consistently failing the competences scolaires, which are not exactly rocket science, there is a problem.

which are not exactly rocket science

Well, this assumption exeplifies everything about the French system which is wrong. For some children, the prescribed competences scolaires are very difficult to achieve and yet the teachers, school and system treat them as if they are failures because, afterall, it's hardly rocket science for the majority of children.

A child does not need to have LD or SN to require additional support to achieve in the classroom. But support is usually in short supply here, because, the model of what is expected is so ingrained (children learn to count to 6 in PS, to 20 in MS, to 30 in GS, thw learn to read in CP etc.). This is the country of échec scolaire, a label appied to even small children.

The rigid syllabus and the relucatance of educators to go outside its perameters is a hinder to bright children, too. Either they skip a year. Or they stagnate. With a teacher who is not in the least impressed that a Grande Section child can read. As my friend found out when she mentioned her child could already read. The response from the teacher: " il faut surtout pas faire l'école à la maison". And this is not some apocryphal story from the dark ages. It happened a few weeks ago in a school in my area.

[Bonsoir]

Indeed. I got called in for a meeting with two teachers and scolded severely for having taught DD to read in English in anticipation of the school's timetable (which didn't allow reading/writing in English until Y3 equivalent). It was really quite unpleasant.

[Greythorne]

The OP has clearly stated that her son has some difficulties. I would hate for her to bring him into a system where the attitude is: "it's not exacrly rocket science" and if he can't keep up, we'll put him back a year.

[Bonsoir]

IME, quite normally intelligent children with bright and interested parents often have interventions by specialists during the maternelle and primary years because the quality and quantity of the teaching they receive at school does not allow them to keep up with the standards the school requires at year end. Speech therapy (which often seems to be remedial dictation classes), penmanship, psychomotricité... parents buy huge quantities of extra teaching, often on the advice of the school, to ensure their DC measure up.

[LeBFG]

Lots of older mums have told me they bought into that clap-trap, Bonsoir, though I took it as an extention of the famous french hyperchondria syndrome i.e. wherever there might be a problem, buy some gadget or specialist to fix it, rather than to measure up to school expectations IYSWIM. But then I live in underachievement central where school kids are told a 14 in a Bac is unheard of 'no one ever gets a 14' to quote the neighbour.

I hope you gwaffed rudely at the scolders BTW.

[Bonsoir]

No, I did not guffaw rudely. I very politely demonstrated with accurate data why the school was wrong in adopting that position, both from an educational perspective and from a market perspective. Which left them speechless and slightly sweaty

[pinkhousesarebest]

I think the OP's dc sadly falls between two stools. I have friends who brought their dcs back from the US and Switzerland because they felt special needs provision here was better. They are still here many years later and never regretted their decision. However their needs were severe, and both attended specialised schools. There is not enough help now for students in mainstream claases with moderate LDs. There was more help before with the dcalin.fr/rased.html. But this has been the first to suffer with government cutbacks.

If you are thinking of Paris OP, I know Marymount has a fabulous unit, where children have specialised help in the morning and join the mainstream group for the rest of the day. It is very expensive though.

It is not rocket science. It is based on work done to death in the classroom. And massively reinforced through aide personnalisee after school if needs be.

[Bonsoir]

And you may think it is claptrap, but if the school risks asking your DC to leave because their speech or penmanship or concentration are not up to the school's standards you might prefer to take a few preventive measures.

[pinkhousesarebest]

My dd goes to speech therapy to work on her vocabulary as we don't speak French at home. Has ever has done a dictation, but got 10/10 in vocabulaire in her recent evaluations nationales as a result.

[pinkhousesarebest]

Has never done a dictation.

[Greythorne]

pinkseahouses
marymount? Really??

[Bonsoir]

If you have a spare EUR 30,000 per year (after tax, of course) Marymount has good SEN provision for English-speaking DCs.

[Bonsoir]

When did you get the results for the évaluations nationales, pinkhousesarebest? We are awaiting ours...

[Greythorne]

The OP is thinking of moving to France with a DC with possible mild LD and your solution is one of the most expensive hors contrat English language schools in France. Hmmmmmm.

[Bonsoir]

French schools can be quite good for middle-of-the-road DCs who have plenty of parental back up. Maybe pinkhousesarebest's DCs are in that position? It is well established that the DCs of teachers do very well in the system, since their parents are in the privileged position of being "in the know" about how to tweak it. Getting information out of schools is like squeezing water out of a stone in France, so teachers and their DCs really are in a good position. And if your DC is neither SEN nor surdoué (which just means bright), French school can work quite well for them.