Living in the Netherlands: Bussum or Hilversum?

[irishmumonthemove]

Hello,

I have recently posted about education in NL and have that question pretty much sorted in my head. Now on to where to live. We want to live outside Amsterdam, close enough but not a suburb and are looking at the above two towns. I have spoken to schools in both that have places for my 3 children and we could get a rental house in both too. I will be visiting NL soon but would love some opinions from anyone who has/is living there. Both are excellent regarding public transport. Hilversum is a lot bigger- is this a plus or minus? Are there areas to avoid? Where's better for family life while still offering culture, sports, cafes, restaurants, parks, nature etc? Any thoughts welcome.

Don't. Even. Start. Me. On. Dutch. Ovens

Our last place we ripped a cupboard out to fit a proper oven in. Here, there's supposed to be one going in the bijkeuken but 3 years on and I'm still cooking in a bloody combi-magnatron. Tonight DH will have to choose between roast chicken with mash, or chicken casserole with roasties. It's impossible to do both. And as for Xmas........ Aaaaaargh!!!!!

Natation, do you mean you chose location over kitchen? It's not even that the kitchen was small-it looks very basic. But do I want a nice kitchen and to live out in the sticks or a basic kitchen and live in a good city location with all the conveniences? Answers on a postcard please....

Am looking at that house you posted again...

Ah I get you now Natation- didn't read properly earlier. There are a couple of nice houses in Loosdrecht, west of Hilversum that we will check out. Maybe living near the lakes would compensate for being in the city. I really need to get over there and get a sense of the place -would help a lot in narrowing down our choices.

Irish, Even living out in the sticks does not mean you will get a big kitchen. I was talking to a Dutch friend today who works in Bussbum, she said that Bussum is more expensive to live not only with rent but also for food in the market.

Is your husband planning to drive to work or use public transport because I think the commute from Lossedrecht would be much longer than from Bussum or Hilversum. My husbands company pay his train fare to and from work, it is something most Dutch companies do, he would not like to have to drive to work and would probably take at least a haf an hour longer.

The Dutch don't do big kitchens - the best you can hope for is open plan kitchen/living area, if the house is any older than mid 80s then small kitchen it is.

Loosdrecht is beautiful but expensive and you will have to drive - no way would I commute to Amsterdam from there for example. Hilversum itself is okay, especially if it's Zuid Oost Amsterdam or Utrecht you'd commute to.

I'm on the other side of Amsterdam, very close to the sea, and I love it here. We're considering a move to Groningen (city) to be closer to family but if we stay in Nord-Holland it's this side we like.

Pinkiemum, DH visited Bussum yesterday and viewed houses and we have decided to rule it out. So Hilversum and surrounding area is our focus at the moment. I don't mean the kitchen is the deal-breaker but it's hard to contemplate spending 2k and be only mildly happy with it especially as I enjoy cooking, baking etc and would like to have the kids involved too. Anyway, downstairs living areas seem small in the city even at that price. Hubby planning to use public transport.

Yeah, I just looked at commute time on google map from Oud Loosdrecht and it's over an hour at peak time. Not great. So we will continue to look around the city. What are the names of the nice, leafy areas in Hilversum?

Thx Katie, just saw your message there. DH is working south of Amsterdam.

Irish have you thought about Baarn, it is on the train line but more leafy although trains not so frequent.

All around by that I mean the outskits near the forest which basically encircles Hilversum it is leafy but you would be further out, the house natation put links on is a leafy area, near the media park is also quite leafy, but i think also quite expensive. Near the train station on the other side of the tracks to the town centre is supposed to be not a nice place to live. Hilversum North seems to be leafy we looked at a house there but the kitchen was tiny, plus the trains stopping at Hilversum north are slow trains that stop at most stations.

The Bloomen burt where I live gets nicer the further you go out of town, I can cycle to the forest in about 5-10 minutes and it is lovely reminds me if the new forests with an open Heath and then proper forest.

Sorry only really know the area we live in, I think most of the nicer bigger houses are further out of the center of town. Probably have not been that helpful.

I am assuming your husband will be getting a bike to ride to the station, it is sometimes much quicker to cycle than to drive because of the one way syestem in Hilversum.

system not syestem

Can I say that I love the idea that people can live in Hilversum. It was always just a word on our radio dial until I saw it on a motorway sign in NL and realised it was a real, live place!

Have you checked the map of rental houses on funda.nl ? It confirms that rental housing is a small market. The house I posted yesterday is the only 4 bed south of the centre, there are 4 other 4 beds in the north east and north west of Hilversum which look interesting, but that house south of the centre has the biggest floor space and it's 300 euro under your top budget. You can see the area east of the railway line is less desirable by the fact the prices of the rental houses there are a bit lower. The only thing I wouldn't like about that house south of the centre is the lack of grass in the garden, but remember that there are playgrounds everywhere and unusually forest nearby and lakes and you can make the most of the outdoors other than in the back garden! You can zoom out the funda map and see housing in other towns too.

Funda rental housing map

How about this house in Weesp?
nice Weesp house

On fundal.nl there are 3 houses with 4 or more bedrooms in Baarn, this one looks very interesting, very close to the train station, large garden, open plan kitchen-living room. It's 7 minutes longer by train from Baarn than Hilversum, same train that stops in both places on its way to Weesp. So travel time is not much different.

So on the upside, this house in Baarn has a much better kitchen and garden, based on what you can see in the photos. On the downside, you may end up travelling often to Hilversum, for that Scouts group or that mums and tots group for example, you may end up mixing in the anglophone community in Hilversum, even with children in Dutch school. Hilversum has a population of just over 100000, Baarn is less than a quarter of the size. Maybe it's just me, but we've 4 children, we live where we do so that the children can be as independent as possible, so I'm a mum's taxi service as little as possible. The smaller the place you live in, the more likely this is to happen. I just couldn't live somewhere where for the children to do activities outside school, they would require me to transport them constantly and simultaneously to different destinations. Sorry it's just me, for me location and convenience come first when choosing where to live - that's why it wasn't easy when we compromised and lived a whole 1.5km from school instead of the 400m I wanted and was used to when we moved last year!!!

Sorry forgot to post that nice house in Baarn.
Baarn house

Just be careful with any house which is offered for rental under 'de leegstandswet' (e.g house in Baarn), it means that you don't have the normal tenancy protection under Dutch law and the Landlord can evict you quite easily. You have the right to live their for 6 months, after that you are at the mercy of the Landlord (e.g. if he wants to sell or get you out for another reason). Personally I would not touch such a house with a barge pole.

I just noticed that several of the other links to houses also refer to a 'gunning voor de eigenaar', they are not specific, but you will need to check what type of local government approval the Landlord is trying to obtain. Again if it is under de Leegstandswet, be EXTREMELY CAREFUL. That is no doubt the reason why these houses are well priced and still not letting in spite of being available for up to 6 months in what is a very tight rental market. If it seems to good to be true then there is most likely to be a catch and hence they will try to flog it to expats.

I rang the agent about that house in Baarn today and she will check with the owner if it's available for 1-2 years. If these houses are for sale as well as rent, than we probably won't get a contract for longer than a year. Which isn't good but on the other hand, it would give us a decent house to live in short -term while looking around for a longer term home. Good or bad idea? I had no idea the rental market was so small. My head is melted from looking.

The 4 bed in Hilversum you posted Natation is now a strong contender and will get DH to look at it next week. If we take a house, there will be a contract drawn up and if the owner states we can rent it for say 2 years, can they change that if they get a potential sale?

Pinkiemum, we are moving independently- unfortunately- a settlement agency sounds like heaven at this stage but we don't have access to one. Do they have access to a rental market not advertised on Pararius or Funda?

Dikkertjedap, thanks for drawing my attention to this de Leegstandswet business.

If you go for a house under 'de leegstandswet' you may want to seek some legal advice/contact the local government.

I have never rented a house under 'de leegstandswet' but it is my understanding, that even if you have a contract for 1 or 2 years, you only have a legal right to live their for 6 months and the landlord can serve you three months notice (you can treat it as a break clause in the UK). Thus, once you have lived there for three months you may be given notice and at the six months point you would have to vacate, no matter what the term of your contract was (on this point you may want to seek legal advice/advice from the local government housing department as they will have to give the landlord dispensation from normal tenancy protection legislation, don't rely on advice of estate agent because that will give you no protection in Court).

A lot of Dutch people cannot sell their houses at the moment and are in financial difficulty. They will therefore ask for dispensation and let their house, hoping to find a buyer once the new government (elections are in September) has provided some certainty about what is going to happen with interest payments and tax relief, and other policies re housing market. The market is stagnant to a large extent due to political uncertainty.

Normally, when you rent a house in the Netherlands you are very well protected and it is very hard for a Landlord to get you out if you don't want to as long as you keep paying the rent, not so under 'de leegstandswet'.

You can see in the adverts that several of these houses have been on the market for 5 plus months, which is really odd, given how much demand there is and given that they are well priced.

There may not be a relocation package but maybe your husband can still ask his employer for some help?

Irish just thought you should know you can put in your contract a special clause which means you can give two months notice if you suddenly have to move I can't remeber off the top of my head what is was called I will ask my husband later tonight.

The settlement company helped us find the house, helped us find our doctor, dentist, internet access, residence permit, registering with the gemeente.

I assume you know all the documents you need and that you have to register with the gemeente ( local council)

Irish, I saw your other thread about education, and have lurked on this one to see how you are getting on. If I may suggest, based on my experience, you should definitely go for location rather than kitchen and garden. I'm afraid given the rental market, and the way the Dutch live, you are extremely unlikely to get a kitchen or a garden that is any way comparable to what you might get in Ireland or the UK. The Dutch do not have big gardens, unless you take a large detached house in a village, and these tend to be well above the 2,000 mark. I have yet to see a decent kitchen. Or a decent oven! It is more usual here, almost standard really, to have an open plan living room and kitchen. Frequently, the kitchen is along one wall only, with limited work surface area.

Life here is more like 1950s in the UK/Ireland. Children still play in the streets and in neighbourhood play areas. Therefore, the Dutch reason there is no real need to have a big garden.....(they are very sensible and logical at times).

Yesterday I picked up the 2012 Expat Survival Guide, a free publication by Expatica. It's full of useful information for when you first arrive - it's small booklet covering income tax, education, relocation, employment, healthcare, housing, finance, registration, transport, essential numbers etc. It's just the sort of thing you need when your internet hasn't been set up and you don't know who to call or how to find stuff out. I will happily post it to you if you would like to PM me an address.

Hi there, yes am aware about registering with the local gemeente. Must start getting our documents in order. Ok, have accepted the kitchen/location argument - finally! Thanks for helping me get my head to this point.

My two older kids play on the street all the time and call to friends on the next street so will be used to that. The garden is too small for them and their world needs to get bigger so I loosened the apron strings about a year ago. We live in a traditional, 1940's city suburb which has a defined conservative view of itself ( not so good ) and also a safe, friendly, neighbourhood watch type streak with a lovely park around the corner ( very good ). Quite 1950's really. So yeah, we would like something similar in NL.

I will PM you my address Gypsy. Thanks a million.

Irish the clause is called a diplomatic clause and it means if something happens and you need to leave the country quickly i.e. you have to move because of work, you are not stuck with a long lease.

I am trying to think of what else I can tell you. Once you are registered with the gemeente they will send your details to the Consulatie Bureau if your child is under 4, ( Health visitor) the first visit they will come to your house, children go until they are 4 and that is where they will get their vaccinations. This may not necessarily be where your doctor is.

Sorry if I am telling you things you already know.

Okay, now you've got over the shock of the kitchen/ garden/ pathetic excuse for an oven, I'm afraid there's a few more bombs to drop.....

The sink in the downstairs toilet will only have a cold tap - there will be no hot running water. Anything more than a quick rinse of your fingers and you'll have to use the kitchen. In fact, sometimes there isn't even a sink at all.

The windows may not be double-glazed, even on newer (1980's+) houses.

Bathrooms don't always come with a bath, sometimes just a shower, even in a 4 bed property.