Tell me about family life in Germany

[BertieBotts]

Schools, in particular, I am concerned about. I know that home education is illegal there, for example, but not much about the schools/school system itself.

Plus, how easy is it to learn German? I know nothing except some vaguely remembered stuff from 2 years learning it at secondary school.

Other things would be childcare, healthcare, cost of living, general attitudes towards children/family type stuff and anything else I may have forgotten.

This is all a bit hypothetical at the moment as DP has only applied for a job there, not got it yet, and even if he does me and DS might not end up going with him for a while (or at all) - if we do, then DS will be around 4 when we go. Provisional plan at the moment would possibly be to stay for a few years and by then hopefully DP is high up enough in the company to be able to request a transfer back to the UK. Of course this depends massively on circumstances. My feelings at the moment are that I'd love to spend a few years elsewhere but couldn't see myself living forever in another country.

Ploom I had my 3rd DC here 11 months ago and there was no option for help at home after his birth paid by health insurance - perhaps it depends on your insurance.

Bertie You have to have health insurance, it's not optional (those on benefits get it paid for by the state, but you can't not have it). There is also "private2 and "public" insurance - we have public and it's always been enough - maybe explains the discrepancy with Ploom's experience though? I'd say far more people breast feed here than in the UK - really almost everyone except those who really, really can't. I think there is a lot of support but don't know first hand as I only had DC 2 and 3 here and had already BF DC1 so didn't need anything. On the other hand it seems to be pretty unusual to feed much past 6 months here - people express mild surprise if I mention I am still feeding an 11 month old, most people breast feed for 4-6 months I'd say.

We are in Bayern, so although my eldest is in school and my 2nd in KiGa there is no point me answering schooling questions as it looks as if it's totally different.

Good luck!

I thought that was the case caterpillar but I wasnt sure as I only know one dc in Berlin . He's just finishing his 6. Klasse in the Grundschule - thats a much better age to assess the dc for the next school.

thatis - it wasnt me that got the help but 2 friends so i've no idea which kind of insurance they had. I agree about the BF - it really is the social norm. Not so sure about BLW tho - seem to see a lot of very pureed food being fed to 6-12 mth old babies.

Well I'm still feeding my 3.6 year old but pretty much only at bedtime now anyway, so I doubt we'll raise any eyebrows.

I'm not married to DP and DS isn't his son (obviously issues with emigrating there, but if XP still hasn't got in contact with me/DS in a year's time I don't think we'll have too much trouble) - I'm guessing that will make insurance etc difficult? I'm guessing we could get our own though if it's compulsory.

No G&A? I've also read there are a lot of examinations during pregnancy - is that true? I'm wondering if the site I was reading was a bit outdated because it said most people stay in hospital for a week which seemed excessive.

I think its maybe different for people with German husbands (and German MILs), but as a foreigner married to a foreigner I don't ever feel any real pressure to conform or keep up with people. I always feel like I get a pass for doing anything unusual! My GP type Dr was very affronted about breast feeding for over 1 year, but I just laughed it off and that was that really and he hasn't held a grudge about it. Being the funny foreign family can be good, we've already made friends in the village we are moving to probably because we are memorable and some people want to practice their English.

WRT health insurance - your husbands company should sort it out. You can opt out of public health insurance and go private, which is often cheaper but once you opt out you can't go back to public if you lose your income or something so if you want to stay forever I'd stick with public. I think my health insurance was about 150? per month when I wasn't married, although I was still doing it via my husbands insurer. When DS arrived he was covered by mine and then when we got married, the whole thing went to DH's policy (we are on public).

Its amazing being able to see whatever Dr you feel like, waiting anything between 0-20 minutes at casualty and just generally having your concerns responded to. My cousin is always telling me about the UK Drs she has who seem to have no interest in illness or its treatment and just have posters in the waiting room telling you to not waste their time :) There is a lot of homeopathy and naturapathy going on but I just say I want conventional/chemical medicines and thats no problem. I don't mind a bit of accupuncture although you sometimes have to pay a contribution towards that. Germans love health and illness and vitamins and things, you'll never be made to feel like a hypochondriac here!

I was pregnant here at the same time my cousin was pregnant in UK and I must have had 4 times the appointments, with a scan at every appointment. I had a lot of tests and every little twinge or worry was treat with seriousness and a barrage of tests. I think you can chill out a bit more if you wish but it was my first baby and I was happy to go along with all that. Round here Drs tend to speak some English, Nurses often can't. This makes staying in hospital a bit lonely and confusing but if you are healthy you can bail out more quickly than a week, I think I got out 2.5 days after (begged and pleaded) There was no gas and air. I wish there were health visitors here - sometimes I really need advice about small but important things that aren't appropriate to ask the Dr. Its nice to have a FrauenArzt - woman specialist Dr because I always used to find it excrutiating having your GP looking up your flue or discussing sex and things.

Thats a bit of an essay but I hope you get the gist! Can anyone help me now, please? :) I have to move to Bochum (after I've moved into my new house here ) - has anyone lived there? Or near in Essen or Dortmund? Any info or tips appreciated (I have my own thread on this but noone has answered yet, thanks Bertie, hope thats okay :) )

I was in hospital for 5 days after both my planned c-sections here (babies 2 and 3) in a double room and the second time I had 2 room mates who each had straight forward deliveries of their first babies with straight forward deliveries and the first only stayed 2 nights, though the second was planning to stay longer and still there when I left. I think a week is the max health insurance pays for, not a standard stay for a normal problem free delivery.

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for starting this thread Bertie, and to other posters for contributing. It's very helpful! Can anyone with any knowledge of BW or German kindergartens generally tell me whether if say we moved in a few months I would be able to get a kindergarten place for my 4 year old, or would there be waiting lists? And what about the 2 yo? Would they most likely go to different places? Our intention is that if DH gets an interview the 4 of us will go out to the town where we would probably live and get a good feel for it, try to scope out kindergartens too.

PS Sorry Bertie also for hijack. Hope you don't mind!

We had no problem finding a kiga place for our 2 ds's - they were also 4 & 2 at the time. But then we do live in the back of beyond so it might different in bigger cities. Kigas here seem to cater from 2 yrs olds up to 6 yrs all in the same kindergarten. Seems a good idea to have a look round & decide if you like your nearest one or want to go to another.

I am on the outskirts of Frankfurt and got a place for my 4 yr old last August having first enquired in June - I think we were lucky and I only wanted mornings. I could not get anything for 2 yr old as I do not work. I know of one kindergarten that will take children under 3 but where I am most do not. I very much like living here but feel the kindergarten and then school system could be more helpful to women who want to work.

No I don't mind at all :) Please carry on!

I like the sound of the extra language help. There are a number of children at DS's nursery who don't speak English very well and I always wonder how they manage. The parents are very friendly though - there is a little girl whose Polish grandma I often exchange smiles/waves and enthusiastic gestures with

I just remembered something annoying and important this morning when I was thinking about banking! This was a big shock for me when I moved here. Unless you are putting over 1500? in per month, so working basically, they charge you a monthly fee for you bank account. If you need a new bankcard it costs 20? - not even through loss but if you have a name change or it expires (tight gits). You can't use other banks cash points, well you can but it will cost you 4.90? per transaction. If you want to buy stuff online you have to put in a code from a sheet of codes the bank sends you in a letter everynow and again - I can't even figure that one out but its totally annoying and medieval :) If any bank does it different then let me know - everyone I tried are basically the same.

I agree with the notion that its easier to get KG out in the villages. In our small city there is a 40% deficit on places so you have to put a child's name down at birth if you want a place under 3yrs. Priority will go to working mothers, it costs a fortune and you can't even go part time in some. I signed DS up for the village KK yesterday, he's 20mo and will start in September when they open a new class - annoying really as he'll only be there a couple of months.

Bertie, your husband's company HR really should be giving you advice and contacts. There will be others (I'm assuming, if the company is one of the ones I'm thinking of) with overseas contracts so they should have a procedure and other spouses they can introduce you to. Thats how it works here anyway.

Oh sorry - I just reread your OP, its a new job not a transfer.. Well I think the advice still stands!

"No G&A? shock I've also read there are a lot of examinations during pregnancy - is that true? I'm wondering if the site I was reading was a bit outdated because it said most people stay in hospital for a week which seemed excessive."

No, there's no G+A - I always love watching OBEM just to see the women sucking on that tube, what a novelty. I did both births with no pain relief at all, and I'm sure if I was in the UK I would have been offered (and probably accepted) G+A. But not having pain relief also meant I was more mobile, and that speeded things along.
I've not heard of women being a week in hospital unless they had a CS. 3-4 days is more normal, but here in Berlin you can also opt for a 'non-resident birth' (ambulante Geburt), when you go home after about 6 hours. I had both mine in a birth centre (Geburtshaus) and went home after 3 hours. The midwife who delivered the babies came each day for 10 days to check the baby and me, and supervise the BF process (obviously you're going to have higher levels of BF success with that kind of 1 to 1 intervention). We were also entitled to a paid home help (via the health insurance) for the first few days with DD2, who was there to look after DD1 whenever DH was at work. You're also entitled to a home help during the pregnancy if you're ill and have small children and nobody else to look after them.

Caterpillar - ooh, where are going to live in Berlin? And what schools are you going for? We consciously decided not to go for a grundständiges Gymnasium because DD2's Grundschule is actually academically demanding enough, but she's in year 4 now and is losing a few friends to the Siemens Gymnasium in August. The choice to send children there seems to be more to do with the parents' ambitions and less to do with the DC's academic suitability, to be honest.
And I'm peeved that the free Kita is now extended for three years, darn we only got one year free. Nevertheless, we got an excellent nursery for a fraction of the cost in the UK - we once worked out that our childcare was costing one tenth of what my cousin was paying in the UK.

"If any bank does it different then let me know - everyone I tried are basically the same."
The lists are supposedly to prevent fraud. My bank now has a different system which is supposedly fraud-proof, but you would probably find it even more unwieldy than the list of numbers. It involves a little card reader that you hold up to the computer screen and then it generates a six-figure number which you enter. Sounds strange but I can do an entire transfer now in two minutes.

I had a waterbirth with DS (although got out right at the end) but I did use the G&A pretty heavily over the last few hours, I think I'd miss it a lot :(

I have a card reader thing for my natwest banking account here! So no change there. The santander one is my favourite as it sends you a text message, though it's a faff if my phone is elsewhere. Less likely to lose it though.

To those of you who moved with small but verbal children, how did they cope with the language issue? Did you do anything with them, DVDs/CDs/rhymes etc? Or just throw them in and let them get on with it? Did you send them to Kiga (ooh get me with the abbreviations! ) right away or did you keep them home for a bit?

This thread is an interesting read - I'm in Austria, but there are lots of similarities between Austria and Germany, particularly in terms of schooling. We used to live in Baden-Württemberg but pre-DC so I don't have any experience of family life there. I did spend the first third of my first pregnancy there, however (and had about three times as many scans as during the rest of my pregnancy!). I'm another one who's envious of the women on OBEM sucking on their G&A tubes! (I had two births without pain relief and one C-section.)

According to this website, the cut-off date for starting school in B-W is 30th September. It also says they've made the cut-off date more flexible so that children who turn 6 between 1st October and 30th June can be enrolled at school by their parents "without any further formalities".

Art is right about ante-natal care - you can have scans at every appt, but you don't have to. You can opt for entirely midwife-led ante-natal care, or just have a few scans for peace of mind. I was encouraged to go for a CTG every week from 28 weeks pg which was a pita in terms of time, but I could have refused. I was also in hospital for 5 days following my cs, but know of people who went home hours after giving birth (they can't stop you if that's what you want!)

Banks are rather strange here, although I've never had to pay for a new card . What has irritated me the most is having to close my account and open a new one when I've moved to another town. The fees are annoying, too. At Sparkasse I used to pay something every month (?1.50 iirc) and then something per transaction. At Deutsche Bank I pay ?6.75 or something every quarter (?) but don't pay anything on top of that (I think I negotiated that, though).

I'm afraid I don't know anything about kiga/school in BW since I live in Thuringia. We are now guaranteed a kiga/krippe place from 14 months, but whether that's just this town, or Thuringia-wide I have no idea.

I love living in Germany and don't have any desire to move back to the UK. Yes, Germans are often abrupt and quick to say no, but they often then turn round and do precisely what they've just told you can't be done!

bertie - my dc were 7, 4 & 2 when we moved here. Dc1 went straight into the 2nd class of school & managed really well but she was the one who could speak most german when we lived in the UK.

But dc2 & 3 spoke little German despite being exposed to it from GP's and dh reading to them in German each night. They spoke all the time in English. But they started kiga a week after being here & coped ok. Well dc2 better than dc3 at the beginning but dc2 is a friendlier type. Dc3 didnt speak much when there for the first 6 months but both of their german language skills came on quite fast. We also only let them watch german tv when they watched tv for the first 6 months.

We've been here 3 years & I think they were all fairly fluent after the first year (shame I wasnt too ). Now their first language is definitely German - thats what they speak to each other in and its only my dogged stubbornness thats keeping their English going. If you can find kika programmes on youtube then that might be a good introduction to hearing german.

The antenatal care sounds brilliant. Thanks for the replies to my kindergarten question, and it's interesting to hear how DCs got on picking up the language. My 4 year old is not great with other children (tends to play alone, although loves playing with his sister), so I am a bit worried if we do go how he would get on. On the other hand, I feel that not having to start school in September would suit him, if it gives him a bit more time to pick up the social skills. The 2 year old is very sociable though and will approach all age groups of children to try and join in, so I would be far less worried about her.

But ...DH has not got an interview yet, so I am getting ahead of myself.

Had a bit of a revelation with DP today. I'm not sure whether this is going to cause problems later down the line or not.

Basically, I'm going into this with the mindset that it's for a few years, and then we'll see if we like it, and only if we really love it, would we think about staying longer term. My plan long term would always be to come back to the UK. However, he's seeing this in the opposite way - that it's a potentially permanent move, and it would take something significant for him to want to move back, either really missing home, or really hating it there.

Of course, neither of us will know what our feelings are long term until we get there and get to that point of having been there for a couple of years, but I'm just worrying this is setting us up for potentially very painful, lifechanging differences of opinion later on, having such different starting points.

I might post this as a separate question because obviously it's not Germany-specific but was just musing it tonight.

I see what you mean Bertie but on the other hand you could absolutely love it and never want to go back! I thought Germany was going to be brilliant before I moved here but then I found actually living here really awkward and annoying. It was so different to UK and where I'd lived before.

Three years on and I know how to get things done and how stuff works, I love it. I have even dropped ex-pat playgroup - I don't think its particularly helpful to DS because he gets English and Dutch at home, he needs German from Germans and I also get better at speaking/listening/acting appropriately when I go to big German groups. Hopefor I agree on what you say about people who don't integrate. I would only move back to the UK now for something like a massive job promotion.

There is no way you can predict so be optomistic! :)

I think it's more that I can't imagine living so far away from friends and family permanently. I'd want to try and integrate I think though, or it wouldn't be worth going at all really.

I'm echoing the opinions on the German health system, it is a lot better, the school system varies wildly from state to state. Here for example there is lots of after school care, and I can't second the Hausfrau thing, over half of the mothers I know work. Perhaps because it is a big city....

On the subject of childbirth, I've had two dcs in Germany now, and it has been a positive experience. Exams are up to you, if you dont want many scans for example, just tell your doctor. G and A is completely unknown here, but pain relief is on request, and no one will stop you having it if you want. You dont have to stay for a week, dont worry, you can just leave the hospital any time, even on the same day if you want. You will have a midwife who will visit you every day at home for a short period, after that she comes once or twice a week for a month or two. Breastfeeding is well supported, this is one of your midwifes jobs and there are a lot of open bf groups in hospitals etc.

Kiga is nice, although the fact that they start so late at school is a culture shock. They do learn stuff at Kiga, just no reading or writing at all.

I guess the whole experience will depend on the people you meet and whether you make frieds etc, and you will probably have to put some effort into that, joining things etc. Obviously if you want to meet Germans, that depends on speaking fairly good German. But it can be very nice, I ve been here for many years now, and dont think I will be going back to the UK.

Darrow, we will be living in the leafy northwest of Berlin, mainly because we did not want to be too far away from a good Gymnasium that offers German-French bilingual classes.
However, the fact that the last three Kita years are free has now created an enormous demand for places that cannot be met. In the quarter that we will be living in for example there are already no more places available for the beginning of the school year 2012/2013, in fact they were already gone by February!