Which country best to bring up a child?

[whereforbest]

my first dc is approaching a year old. maternity leave is 6 months here, childcare astronomical, rent high. I also unexpectedly became a single mum. I lost pay last week as dc sent home from crèche but still had to pay crèche, obviously. I love my job and work hard but would love to be with dc more, to but need my full time wage as a minimum.

I'm highly qualified with a professional job but trapped - can now only afford student level accommodation for me and my child. or stop paying childcare but forget career. even primary school day is very short and no after school clubs - just expensive after school care.

Is there anywhere where (ideal wishlist!) childcare is good quality and fairly priced, accommodation matches average salary, attitude to having children with you is positive (in restaurants etc), plenty of facilities for children and families, support for working parents (flexible options)? and so on?

Sweden? Seriously, I think the best place to bring up a child is wherever you feel happiest and have real life support, family and friends.

Scandanavian countries. Very child orientated and proper equality legistation. None of the half hearted malarky we have here. Sweden is particularly good.

I've lovely friends here, but always make great friends wherever I live. my family are in the UK but in a town i couldn't have my career in. id never move back there.

I'd love to be able to support myself and dc. Just the basics!

Yes, one of the the Scandinavian countries or the Netherlands.

hmm. is Swedish easy to learn? :-)

No, sadly - I lived next door to a pair of Swedes for several years - I can't even get 'hello' out sounding vaguely like it should!

What is the cost of living in Sweden though? Childcare may be cheaper- but what about tax rates and other costs?

i went to live in Germany in the 90"s prior to that i genuinely believed thatBritain was the top country in Europe , what a shock! i kid you not , they are years/miles in front of us in just about any sphere of life you could shake a stick at,health ,childcare,work community, they take a long term view of what is right for themselves/population,i lived very well on what in Britain would be regarded as below average wage, no one i met was even slightly interested as to weather i owned a house/car/isa etc, it was wonderful ! and now i"m back in Britain,( but planning my return to Germany!!)

I'm in The Netherlands and it's not perfect (52% tax rate, catholic schools, lack of mountains) but it's not too shabby either (big tax breaks on childcare, tax break on mortgage, schooling appropriate to the ability of your individual child).

But as was pointed out just last week to another poster looking for greener grass - it's really not so simple.

what saffron said

Sweden has very good provision for childcare and a positive attitude towards children, but it also has a difficult language and a rather closed culture: it is a place where it is very easy to feel lonely if you are not already part of a family.

You could try one of the asian countries where you will be able to afford a much nicer house, someone to look after it, someone to do your washing/cooking/driving/gardening if required and someone to look after your child in your own home.
The weather is better generally speaking, the work ethic is more relaxed (except china/hk) and you can do some very cool things at the weekends. And you will have a ready made friendship group of expats.
Overseas packages are usually very well paid too, including yearly flights back to uk and school fees.
Are you seriously thinking of it or is it a pipe dream?

Holland and Sweden (have lived in both countries) and possibly Denmark too?

In Sweden the State pays for your language course! (at least it did when I was there).

Sadly, in both countries it is really really hard to integrate. People are friendly, but you never get accepted as one of them (my experience in England is that you do! That is why I, personally, really like living here ). Maybe just move to a different part of the UK?

Move to Copenhagen! you can learn Danish from watching the killing and it seems like a fab city.

France is good for childcare - it is reasonably affordable and tax-deductible - providing you don't want amazing quality and don't think you are going to have any say in the way your DC is cared for.

Chandon - I'm in NL and I'd say I'm pretty well integrated! Dutch friends and family would agree Been her 8 or 9 years.

AlpinePony - Not all schools are Catholic, not by a long chalk. There are quite a lot in the south but a lot less in the north. I'm in the south, there are 4 primary schools in walking distance and only one is Catholic. IME Protestantism is the more extreme form of Christianity here, exactly the opposite to my experience in the UK.

It does dependon your personal circumstances as well. For example, do your dcs have sn or are you a lone parent.

For example I have read that the netherlands have a pretty negative view of young single mothers.

Will be watching this thread, we've been wondering about relocating and were looking at Sweden. I am worried about being lonely though.

hetty you're quite right, what with the whole protestant/Orange movement et al. ;) I am indeed in limburg and I'd prefer my pfc's not do communion just because all their friends do.

lesley that's not true from what I've seen - although you are expected to take responsibility for your life. It's astounding the rumours though, someone actually wrote on mn that they thought the Dutch state would euthanase their SN child - and don't even get me started on the US tea party claiming 10% of dutch deaths are euthanasia!

Well I am in Belgium and think it ticks all of your boxes. Tax is high though. The 50% rate starts at about 35000 euros.

alpine - I have read it in some stuff about why NL has less single teenage parents than uk. It saida lthough people always point to sex education,just as important is that teenage girls getting pregnant is seen as shameful. But only read it?

lesley without getting too deep in to the discussion, it is largely as I pointed out above - you are expected to take responsibility for your own life - and that means using contraception and not getting stuck in a benefits trap. Nobody wants to be 18, a single mum and living with their parents! It's a different lifestyle though in general, whilst some of my dutch friends have sewn their wild oats, a massive majority have been quite chaste and married the person they got together with at a fairly young age.

I wasn't criticising the view. I guess just trying to say that what might be an ideal country for a particular parent, might not for another. You have to consider your personal circumstances and that of your dc and how this is viewed locally.

For example if you have a transexual teenager a country that might be ideal for some could be a nightmare for you.

Would be interested to know which countries people think have good sn provision for kids?

I live in Holland, and tho not exactly "shameful", they are more like considered being dumbtoo young to start on children and should develop their career (and therefore independence) first.
You also don't automatically get a house as a teenage pregnant girl so have to stay living at home. You can imagine how well that goes down...

I'm a single mum and we don't get looked down on. (there's so many now anyway!).

Lots of different types of schools here, especially in the primary category. My son went to a Montessorri (sp?).

Anyway, OP, it depends where you feel most comfortable. Moving to a new country is a huge undertaking especially as a single mum. Especially if you don't speak the language.
Bottom line is you would need to have a job in place (with relocation package), I'd say.

Oh, and the 52% is the highest rate. For certain "knowledge migrants" from abroad it's possible to get a 30% deduction.

You should check out Expatica, different European countries, lots of info (and forum).

www.expatica.com/

Similarly, whilst I agree with most of DukeofPorks comments on Asia (it ticks a lot of the Op's boxes), I'm not sure how easy it would be to fit into the expat scene as a single parent. On the one hand, you'd have 24/6 childcare so no worries on that score, but at the same time there are just not v many one parent families (although tonnes of single childless people, esp women. However, those people party hard. Might be tricky to keep up with them when you've got to be up at 6 with a toddler). weekends can be very "nuclear family" especially Sundays.

Also, very hard to meet a decent bloke as a western woman. The numbers just dont stack up.

I would say if you live away from the South East and hot spots for second homes and are employed at more than the average wage you could have all the things you want in the UK. Plus is English speaking and relatively easy to visit your parents for the weekend.