Which country best to bring up a child?

[whereforbest]

my first dc is approaching a year old. maternity leave is 6 months here, childcare astronomical, rent high. I also unexpectedly became a single mum. I lost pay last week as dc sent home from crèche but still had to pay crèche, obviously. I love my job and work hard but would love to be with dc more, to but need my full time wage as a minimum.

I'm highly qualified with a professional job but trapped - can now only afford student level accommodation for me and my child. or stop paying childcare but forget career. even primary school day is very short and no after school clubs - just expensive after school care.

Is there anywhere where (ideal wishlist!) childcare is good quality and fairly priced, accommodation matches average salary, attitude to having children with you is positive (in restaurants etc), plenty of facilities for children and families, support for working parents (flexible options)? and so on?

i live in Milan.
Childcare is good quality and affordable ( free from age 3).
But salaries are crap and rents high.
Outside of Milan the childcare offer is less reliable (not enough places).
Emilia Romagna has excellent childcare provisions and great quality of life

Move to Belgium. After school care is very cheap and there are loads of english speaking jobs around Brussels.

Apparently after school child care is virtually non existent in Germany, and as schools finish at 1pm every day, it's very hard for working parents.

I never really understand this question, to be honest and I say this as someone with a DH from the other side of the world, both of us having lived in each other's home countries...

There isn't some utopia where you can go and everything will be just perfect...

I mean, what's the point in moving to Sweden where everything's great in theory, but where you don't know anyone, you don't speak the language, your grandparents have to travel to have a relationship with their grandchildren, you don't understand how everything works and what the, e.g. school system is like, property situation is like, social scene is like, work life is like, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

It really, really isn't all just about childcare provisions and what you get for free from the government - there is so much more to an overall happy and contented life than the one little narrow bit that you are focusing on. With all due respect. :)

The UAE? We live in Dubai and it's very safe and great for kids. Depends on what your job is, though.

Having lived abroad for quite long time, I do agree with Sinking.
Moving to a different country usually brings feelings of loneliness and isolation, which have to be kept into consideration.
Belgo, i have a friend who recentlymoved to Germanbyand isn?t at all impressedby childcare provisions.

I like New Zealand. And luckily thats where we now live. I get 15 hours free childcare for my pre-schooler and also had her with achildminder which was reasonably priced. My job has been very accomidating to a part time Mum and there are great afterschool clubs which are cheap.
Its also a very family friendly country in general. Not perfect but suits us.

thank you everyone! I lived in a few eu countries in my 20s for my career, so it's not a "grass is greener" situation. I can speak a few languages, and my job translates well to any country really, whether I speak the language or not.

I don't think id be able to give my baby a great quality of life here. id love to be near xp but he may not stay here now that we've separated as not many jobs here. It's tough, and not a situation i thought I'd find myself in:-(

I have been very happy in my new country- the UK- but then I did have dh to provide an introduction and help me make sense of it, I spoke the language fluently on arrival and knew a fair bit about the culture, and most importantly I had counted on a few years of loneliness until I got my bearings.

Norway is great for raising kids. Like sweden

OP I think the UK offers liberal thought, a largely safe environment, and a benign, tolerant culture. Other countries offer more wealth/better weather/more space/cheaper housing/better free childcare/more outdoors but none offer all of them, so pick which is most important.

For the practical part of bringing up kids, nearby family/support plus ease of getting to schools/doctors/friends etc is the most critical.

Lived in Belgium, found it fantastic. Married, and both working, earning reasonably. Had short maternity leave but this suited us, and DD1. Healthcare is second to none, but you have to put your hand in your pocket for health insurance and often pay at the point of delivery, reimbursed later.

Now living in Sweden and childcare is unavailable under 12 months (often 18 months) which obliges me to be SAHM. This suits DD2 and has advantages for DD1 going part-time to pre-school, but has committed me to a life that doesn't give me a lot of freedom. However, family-friendly in that we can cope on one salary and childcare is currently totally free for our three year old.

What has been a huge let down in Sweden is the healthcare. I am reminded often that the UK is worse (which it may well be, I don't know, never lived there with kids) but it is p*ss poor compared to what we had in Belgium and with two little ones I am constantly ranting at the poorly organised system with long waiting times, never seeing the same doctor twice, no 'customer service' and such regulation on medication that we never get anything effective when the DDs are sick.

Swedes can be kind (we live on a wonderful street where we have made loads of friends) but when we first arrived and lived in a bigger town it was horrible, lots of staring when I spoke English to the girls, and people very rude.

The kids have a fantastic life here, and DH (who is Swedish!) is in his element. But I would be wary of idealising the Swedish lifestyle (can't comment on other scandinavian countries).

We have recently moved to Sweden and one of the main reasons for the move was a better life for the kids. We didn't know anybody here and learning the language has not been that difficult so far (courses are free).

The kids are much happier in their schools and childcare costs are very good. DS2 spends 28 hours a week at dagis and it costs us about £65 a month. You are also entitled to parental leave which is 480 days per child which can be used up until the child is 8.

The taxes are higher and the weekly shopping is more expensive but somehow we seem to be better off than when we lived in the UK!

I've heard a lot mentioned about people feeling isolated in Sweden but have not experienced this at all. I have found the Swedes to be extremely friendly. We really love it over here and my only regret is that we didn't do it sooner!!

iI?d say that on average European countries offer a safe environment and liberal thinking. Even here in Italy, you know, it is not just conservative and narrow minded people.
We just have to fight more to improve standards, it can be fun!

Norway? no....

My sister is living there right now, it is a very closed society. She has been there for 2 whole years, before a Norwegian colleague sat down next to her for lunch. She had been having lunch alone for years, in the work canteen, and was thrilled some Norwegians are now saying "hello". .
That is how far you get after 2 years. I guess after 15 years someone may invite you for a coffee, but not very likely.My sis is quite sociable and has always had an easy time making friends but Norway proves a hard nut to crack, which mirrors my experience in Sweden. Lovely countries, nice people, but you just remain an outsider even if you speak the language...

Good skiing though.

I agree that the availability of practical support of friends and famiy nearby is important.

Whatmeworry, I couldn?t agree more. The UK is a great place to bring up children as they get older it gets easier, most schools offer breakfast and after school clubs for working parents. I have lived abroad trust me it?s not any easer its harder.

Oh, and it's snowing... again here on the West coast of Sweden!

Glad you like it here Hippo. I do too really, on balance. It's just that there have been some very tough parts. What prompted your move, out of curiosity?

There are several studies on this subject that you can search.
As our background is partly dutch with a lot of family living there I did pay attention studies focusing on the Netherlands. I think it is worth reading.

And this one. Overview of child well-being in rich countries...

Chandon, I guess it depends on where you live? Dh did a full time Norwegian language course, and got to know lots of other foreigners. They were discussing friendliness and ease of integrating, and many said that it was harder around the capital than further north. He had no problems making friends with neighbours, and the dads taking their sons to football.

OP was asking about raising children. From that perspective it is good.

Maternity leave is either 10 months at full pay, or 12 months at 80% of full pay. You register your interest in a nursery at the birth of your baby. Children then start nursery at either 10 or 12 months when maternity leave ends. Paternity leave is one month full pay.

All nurseries are state subsidized, even private, or parent owned co-operative nurseries. The set fee nationally is £250 per month, and includes care from 7.30 till 5pm (when most people finish work, there are government guidelines that working hours should not be more than 35 hours per week), this includes lunch at 12 and snack at 3pm. Children bring packed breakfasts to the nursery, and eat together, getting juice and milk from the nursery.

The nursery had parents breakfasts, and "parties" such as St Lucia, Easter breakfast, Christmas party, Midsummer fest, Automn get to gether, along with carboot sales, and also there is the concept of dugnad, where all parents have to spend 15 hours of forced voluntary work at the premises, such as cleaning, raking leaves, painting playground equipment. These events were really popular as it brought parents together, and the community spirit was fantastic. The fees were kept low because everybody mucked in. The dugnad could also involve baking for occasions such as UN coffee morning, which was basically a fund raiser.

Both my kids are really happy and healthy and not to least outdoorsy after spending 3 years there.

However, there is a problem of how bullying is tackled in primary. It is all very wishy washy, and no real consequences, so no incentive for the kids to be nice to eachother.

(My problem, and one of the reasons we returned, was double taxation issues as we were, and are still, running a uk business)

Raise them in the UK... but not in London or the Home Counties. In the vast area of the UK that is outside of the M25 there's everything you're looking for. Reasonably priced accommodation, great schools and universities, family-friendly natives and an increasing number of companies relocating & looking for highly qualified staff. Plus all the other advantages of terrific scenery, a sparser population and lower costs of living. Sweden's OK but they hate foreigners.

We had been thinking about moving to Norway or Sweden for about 10 years but just never got round to doing anything about it. It's a bit of a long story but we were becoming very unhappy with the UK in terms healthcare/education and anti-social behaviour. DH's employer gave him the opportunity to transfer over here and so we took it!

Hi, we've moved this into Living Overseas.

we live Germany, and for the children it is ideal. The schools are excellent, and there is none of the choosing school nonsense that you get in England. (NB most of my experience of UK based on posh London, so not net true for all of UK) all the kids in the street go the the same school which is 5 minutes away. All the kids walk to school without an adult.

The children have a lot more freedom and a lot more free time. The academic expectations are higher for brighter kids, and ime they rise to the challenge. The drinking culture of the UK does not exist where we are, and that is for me really important. I don't want my sons growing up thinking a good night out is getting absolutely hammered. I see this every time I return to the UK, also even with adults.

The health care is excellent.

On paper, for me nearly everything is better.

BUT

you can't beat the british SOH
and I'll always feel like a foreigner, and feel like an outsider and there will always be a barrier. i feel my options are so much more limited, to the point of being non existent, and I have no family support.
And my kids get in just after 1, so I am much more hand on than I would be in the UK. The plus is they have me around and we are close.

I think where I am in Germany is much better than many place in the UK for many reasons, but it#s not such an easy decision. For the kids it's better. I'd say for me it's mixed. Cold hard facts are one thing, but feelings are another...

come join me in Australia. Child friendly, good weater and no language barrier!