South Africa. Eek!

[newbiedoobiedoo]

DH is very close to being offered a job in SA. After over a year of unemployment we're not really in a position to say no.

We have three children (ds5, dd3 and ds1). I don't even know where to begin trying to organise something like this. Or even what it's like to live there!

I have been a SAHM for a while and run a small business now from home. But my business is not something I could continue there. So I have no idea what I'd do with myself! :(

Er...help?!

Whereabouts is it and will you get help with housing?

Don't have a lot of details until he meets with them next week (in UK) but he would get a relocation package as well as his salary.

Oh it's Durban! :) or :( rather!

Does anyone live there at all?! This will be the first time Mumsnet has let me down!

Oooh Durban is lovely! I went there last year (onholiday ) and it's beautiful. In fact SA is beautiful, the climate is lovely, the scenery stunning, the people (mostly) friendly and helpful. The only fly-in-the-ointment is the crime. One of my best friends is South African, he's over here and would love to go back, but for the crime and violence- and the lack of jobs for white people. And lack of any safety-net like welfare. But some parts are worse than others, and the same goes for UK. I went to Cape Town last year and that was even better - could def. live there - except it's really expensive, due to the number of people who want to live there!

Oh thank you captainmummy it's nice to hear from someone who has been there. I'd never heard of it until now

I have heard a lot about the crime though and this worries me. Especially since dh will be in work and I have heard it's not safe for women to wander around alone which leaves me questioning what exactly I'd do!

Did you bring children with you?

At least it's Durban, not jo'burg! You'll be driving a lot, not walking. You'll get a membership at some sports club where the kids can swim, hang out and play. South Africans are fantastic people and you will be able to see so much. How long might it be for?

DH goes to Durban sometimes for work. I think there's one of the biggest shopping centres in the world there. I'll pump him for info when he gets home.

We didn;t take kids, just 4 adults. We were due to fly home the friday afterthe volcano (on the thursday) so wegot to jo'burg airport to be told there's no flights, just go into jo'burg and get a hotel. No-one 'walks' into jo'burg (and no, don't walk about alone, day or night if poss) so what coiuld we do? My SA friend phoned an army mate from 20 years before (met up with him and wife after 20 years only on the prev wed) and his wife's sister lives in a suburb of jo'burg. Her husband cancelled a meeting, drove to the airport and took us home and put us up on the floor of his study for 10 days until we could get a flight home. Friendly or what? 4 strangers, on the strength of his sister-in-law's old mate.

Everyone drives, and most people have guns. There is a fantastic out-door culture, very sporty, like australians. Loads of bbqs, parties, hunting/shooting etc. We lived like the locals, were taken to baby-showers and braais (bbqs) and shooting. Having said that, jo'burg is not a place i would choose to live. Every house is behind 8' high walls, razor-wire, electric wire, bars on doos and windows, dogs. Durban is not so bad!

The crime is endemic, all around, mostly black-on-black but not totally. There is no welfare system, if you are out of work there is no money for you. They have a system called AI - Affirmative Action, which means any jobs going will go to a black,normally irrespective of ability. If no black available, it will go to an asian. Then to a white. There is a huge problem in that young whites cannot get jobs. I often think that the young benefit scroungers in this country should go over there and see how lucky/pampered they are here. You don't have a job, you beg or starve. The difference between 'rich' and poor is heartbreaking. And i don't mean 'Rich' i mean getting by.

Having said that it is the most gorgeous country. I would go there like a shot, given a job and reasonable place to live.

Thanks so much for your responses! I feel better having heard from people who know what they're talking about! :)

I would think that it would be for maybe 5 years and then we would come back. What is the education system like? Are white children in danger going to and from schools? And what about healthcare? So sorry for all the questions!

Fraktal that would be brilliant thanks.

School system is good, better discipline than here! Don't think white kids are in danger - you'll prob be driving them anyway. I don'tknow how the South Africans aren't as big as americans, they have to drive everywhere, even just down the road.

Healthcare you will pay for.
Durban has some fantastic beaches- we stayed in a place just along the coast called umhlanga sands (pronounced Umshlanga) it's on Indian ocean so water is warm. Be aware that there are 'safe' beaches and others with strong currents/sharks (yes Great Whites and others) we swam off a beach called granny's pool, as it was calm and safe. Durban is home to the Sharks board, the worlds premier shark advisory. Very interesting.

And durban is only 40mins flight from jo'burg, and Joburg is only 12 hours direct from heathrow, so I actually think it's very accessible.

Wish i was coming with!

I grew up in SA, moved to the UK in my late teens, then back to SA in my early 30's. I have lived in Cape Town and Johannesburg.

South Africa is a beautiful, complex country. On the surface it all looks good - reasonable infrastructure, great homes, good schools etc. Scratch the surface and it quickly becomes apparent that the socio economic issues are overwhelming. Crime is only one aspect of life in South Africa. Sky high unemployment, scarily crazy drivers, rampant HIV, horrendous poverty, corruption and a lack of any sort of any sort of welfare are just as much an issue. These issues affect the entire country.

I love SA but I could not raise a family there. We moved to Australia 3.5 years ago. I will be honest and say that my born and bred Saffa husband doesn't even want to go back on holiday as the crime and roads worry him so much. Sorry this is negative but as somebody who has done this with small kids I thought you might like a balanced view.

On average 1500 people die on the roads in SA during the main holiday period (dec/jan)

Thanks all for your comments. I've told dh to have a look at the thread too as neither of us have a clue really!

iMoniker thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like exactly what I'm afraid of!!!

DH says don't go unless the company is paying for a secured compound or you're making very good money. Durban is okay but you need to be living in the right place (nice outskirts). And buy a big dog.

Plus points are great surfing, nice things to do like a massive aquarium and touristy stuff, things are comparatively cheap but it depends whether you'd be on a local payscale.

If its a multinational there might be a community from that company but DH says it really depends on the job. If you want to PM any slightly more specific but still vague details he says he might have more of an idea.

Slightly scary statistic is that about 75% of 18-30 women are HIV positive (DH deals with sailors ) and rates are higher there because it's a big port town.

Thanks so much Fraktal I really think it would be a no go for us. Sounds and looks gorgeous but not to move to with three small children!

DH is meeting with them next Tuesday so if you wouldn't mind I may PM with some details then? Thanks again :)

Oooh Durban, you lucky things!

My auntie used to live there and I've been out to stay with her a couple of times. I would second Umhlanga Rocks as being lovely and you can visit the Shark Board and watch a shark disection - gruesome .My favourite beach would have to be Scottburgh though, a half hour or so drive away down the N2. Lovely surf beach it was with waterslides! There was a place called Croc World there which was a fab attraction too.

She lived North of Pinetown in a place near Kloof Gorge called Gilletts. Very very lovely suburb full of extremely nice houses with pools.

However, I would add that this was more than ten years ago and I can't comment on how things are there now. But when I visited it was really really nice. We used to go to a shopping centre in town called The Wheel.

Newbie - what does your dh do? Maybe i could putmyself forward for Durban instead?!

Right he's definitely meeting on Tuesday afternoon so we'll know more then. There's also a possibility of work in the UK so it might be a no go anyway! I'm still very concerned tbh :( but I'll keep an open mind until I know more about what's going on!

captain er - he's a bit of a Chandler Bing to be honest. It's some sort of consultancy/managing director type thing...

Glad I've cleared that up for you

There is a lot of crime in South Africa, but it depends on the area. I read an article a few years ago about how the crime rate in the UK was higher than in SA

Remember how everyone was concerned about the world cup? It didn't turn out that badly did it?

Durban is really lovely. But you would not live in the centre, maybe Umhlanga or Ballito

What are your concerns about going with young children? You certainly wont be doing much walking as places and facilities are spread apart, so you'll be driving, no real public transport, and you just need to be aware of your surroundings

Schools are really really good. But one thing to to be aware of is school starts at 7, grade 1 but there are more and more schools, especially the private ones, offer pregrades

Yes there is blatant poverty but I think its to be expected from any developing country

I know many people returning to SA from the UK with young families as they are concerned about the quality of life their children will have in the UK...

The thing is to be sensible. Yes there will be areas to watch, but most people don't live in gated communities, so do take a look to see what looks right to you. My 75 year old aunt has lived just south of Durban for decades, and I have cousins in the area too. My aunt lives by herself in some flats and has pottered about on her own for ever. None of them are in gated communities.

Durban itself is not particularly attractive, but there are some stunning areas around it, whether up in the hills, or right on the coast (where you can watch the annual sardine run).

Not sure anyone in my family has a gun.

I'll offer my very biased view. I'm south African and grew up in Durban (eek totally outing myself!). It's a beautiful country with major issues but that's not to say I wouldn't live there with my kids, especially if I had the back up of returning here. Discuss with your dh's company as to how they will fund your children's schooling. Almost all schooling is private and I would expect your company to fund it - discipline is good, academic and sport attainment is actively encouraged with a strong ethos of competition. Durban is beautiful - most people drive, the beaches are relatively safe (the biggest crime that happens is theft of items left when you're in the water), sharks are a relatively non-issue (beaches are closed during the sardine run) and there is a big outdoors culture.

I would go into it with your eyes open. Yes there are problems but there are also huge pluses. Oh as an aside do not whatever anyone says buy a gun. You would only put yourself and your dc at risk - not only from accidentally discharging the weapon themselves but if you're not prepared to use it you are only arming someone else. Saying that I never knew anyone who was burgled or attacked in Durban.

"What are your concerns about going with young children?"

I'm glad you've asked that Sardine because I haven't really put much thought into that bar just 'being' concerned!

I suppose a lot of my concerns are general as opposed to being specific to SA. Moving so far from everyone and everything I know, going to a country that I have absolutely no knowledge of excepting what I've seen in the media. If it were dh amd I going I'd see it as a big adventure but taking my children into the unknown just concerns me. I worry about how my ds will fit in. The others are fine because they are 3 and 1 and so won't really know any different.

With the exception of a couple of years in my younger days I've always lived close to my parents. It makes me sad I suppose that my children won't know them. If we were moving to Europe there'd be a lot more visits. But my dad has health problems and is 70 so the chances are it will be a visit home once a year for us.

WRT SA, like I say, I'm just useless! I know nothing about it and I don't know anyone who has been. My parents' friends had a house there for years but left in the late 90s or early 00s.

I'm glad some of you don't think the gun thing is a necessity because I have to say, when I read that I said no way! I couldn't ever have a gun around my children!

Oh, and I'm a bit scared of driving there! :)

Outside of the city the roads are pretty quiet. Your dad might like the thought of a few weeks in the sun each year to escape the worst of the British winter. My aunt has airport assistance when she comes over here (transport to airport gate, help with luggage etc) so it can all be done unless his doctors have advised against air travel? My dad's a similar age and has already been to Australia less than a year after a quadruple bypass.

Guns only if you going out into the bush after game!