South Africa. Eek!

[newbiedoobiedoo]

DH is very close to being offered a job in SA. After over a year of unemployment we're not really in a position to say no.

We have three children (ds5, dd3 and ds1). I don't even know where to begin trying to organise something like this. Or even what it's like to live there!

I have been a SAHM for a while and run a small business now from home. But my business is not something I could continue there. So I have no idea what I'd do with myself! :(

Er...help?!

imoniker and yeah both speak sense. Listen to them.

I'm British and lived in Joburg 3 years and I go back quite often on business. My best mate is also British and has lived there now for 12 years (near Cape Town). We also have relatives in Durban.

It is quite possible to have a lovely standard of living and enjoy yourself out there, but you end up living in a bubble. If you go in on an 'ex pat' basis (which you should be aiming for) you should insist on all of the following:-

1. House rental in a gated community
2. School fees for children
3. Car allowance - you will both need cars
4. removal expenses both ways (one shipping container minimum)

With all of that you will spend your days driving your kids to and from a very pleasant gated community to very nice private school (excellent standard of schooling), before driving to mall to stock up on groceries. You'll meet other mums from the gated community and then there will be horseriding, golf, spas, etc (just google Zimbali lodge for an idea). And you'll have a live-in maid to do all the housework and possibly a nanny as well. Restaurants are lovley and the scenery is spectacular. Yes, people will come up to your car to ask for money but you can ignore them. And yes, at night you won't drive through the CBD (or indeed much of Durban itself), and at night you jump the red lights so you're not hanging round at junctions. But chances are you will neither see nor experience crime.

It can be nice. But never forget it is nice in a TRUMAN SHOW way.

You don't see the lives your maid and nanny lead when they are not with you - their townships and poverty. If you ask you'll discover that your maid may have kids somewhere else being looked after an aunt. She may be responsible for feeding 10 kids including a couple of orphans whose parents have died. You don't see the 80% youth unemployment. You will one day realise that you only walk when you're playing golf or on holiday. And that when you are having business meetings you and your husband can play 'racist bingo' where you bet on how many hours into the dinner party someone round the table will say "Now, I'm not racist, but...." followed by shedloads of offensive ranting about state of crime/cleanliness/education and all other ills. We made many many SA friends who found this behaviour offensive too, but TBH when we were out on business this was the prevalent attitude.

When we lived there my DH had his watch taken at knifepoint, but that was his own fault (wrong area, at night, having had a few beers). A friend had their dogs poisoned then their house robbed whilst they were out. Another friend got car-jacked. So yes, crime is bad, and this stuff happens. We also went to three funerals for really young people (32, 22, 19), all related to the appalling standard of car driving in SA (but that really only affects you on the motorways). Counter that with experiencing the most amazing place, living like kings for a while, and being able, in small ways, to help some of the people around you in a profound way (eg we put our maid's son through university and it cost us peanuts but changed his whole life). And the weather is truly truly glorious and lifts you up hugely.

I don't regret going for an instant, but I don't regret deciding to come back either. I don't think I could have lived with myself being in such an unequal society for much longer than the 3 years I spent there. My friend would second all of the above and would also point out that there are more electricity cuts now and cost of living has risen sharply (when I was there last year I found that food in their equivalent of M&S cost more than in the UK). The school fees for the two orphans my friend has taken guardianship of (long story - AIDS related) are higher than the UK school fees at my DCs private school (yet salaries in SA are a qtr of ours). She'll also second that the experience is amazing on an almost daily basis. Her house backs onto mountains and she has photos of a leopard near her border. She feeds wild birds by hand (not so wild now, obviously..) and her 'kids' have every luxury going - space, wildlife, beach, pool.... it can seem like paradise.

If you are not offered an expat package with bells and whistles then DO NOT TOUCH IT WITH A BARGEPOLE.

Yes it's the against doctors' advice unfortunately crumpet. He can travel but not really for more than a couple of hours. My parents were in Portugal this year and he couldn't walk for the first 3 days (he has very bad arthritis among other things). But, I could live with visiting only once or maybe, a couple of times. I'm not sure what I'd do though? I don't think I'd get work and once the children were all in school (because they will all be school going age before we could think of coming back) I have no idea what would happen!

Thanks for that StillSquiffy

I know dh won't even entertain a move unless it affords us a high standard of living, otherwise there's no phere's no point in us leaving here! But I would be like you I think, it would be lovely for a while but to live like that, with such a massive class divide? I'd feel horrible!

Gun thing is a red herring - ignore that.

My friend has her parents out for three months every year to escape the winter in the UK, so she doesn't 'miss' family.

Thought I'd mentioned everything then realised I had forgotten to add another key thing - working day is from around 7.30am to around 4.00pm (everyone gets home before dark. Seriously.) It means your DH will be around for the kids quite a bit more than if you lived in the UK - a big plus. Weekend working also very unusual in professional jobs in SA

Okay dailymail but this is the article I was referring to

As with the others, insist on the whole expat package benefits and compensation

The devil is in the detail though. In the Uk if you get punched it's a violent crime. In SA the police would not even put it in the incident book.

If you read further down the article, you see that there are more than 25 as many murders in SA than UK. Per 100,000 population the murder rate in UK is 2, whereas in SA it is 35.

And of course that rate would be even higher were it not for the precautions that you take in SA that you would never take in the UK (avoiding many districts at night, gating communities, electric fences on property, never walking anywhere, etc). Some areas around the garden route and the cape are of course relatively light crime-wise (eg my friend has no need for security around her own property despite being close to a small township), but I'd thought that most of Durban was heading the same way as the JoBurg suburbs - gating and extra security as standard? (agree though that places like Ballito probaby fine and v low crime). Maybe a Durbanite living there now can confirm how things are at moment...

Hi I emigrated to Jo'burg 5 years ago and have been pretty happy here ever since. we have a high standard of living, nice house, pool, can afford help around the home. the weather is fantastic and therefore it is a very outdoors culture, we are in the pool, at the park most weekends, going out for breakfast is quite a big thing here ( it gets a bit hot later on in the day) and there are some lovely places to go with great play parks for the kids.

We go down to Durban every year for a week or so and I love it, if I could live anywhere in SA it would be there, Umlanga and Balito on the North Coast are the nicest IMO, beautiful beaches, very laid back lifestyle, like a nice surfer type community.

My salary here is probably a bit below what I could earn in UK but we are much better off as child care is very cheap. I have a full time nanny for about 400 pounds, also a cleaner and gardener 1 day a week so I actually get to spend time off with my kids rather than domestic stuff.

with regards to a package for DH, he needs a comparable wage to the UK as well as decent relocation allowance. check website for rental prices along the North Coast, to buy you will need at least 2 million, prefably 3. Renting can be expensive and most rentals are completely unfurnished. some things are a lot more expensive here - cars -you will both need one and will need to allow at least 100 000 zar for something vaguely decent.
Check discovery.co.za for prices of medical aid, it's expensive but far better quality than in UK. You also get very cheap gym, cinema and other benefits (25% off BA flights home) with vitality from Discovery.
white goods are very expensive to buy so try and get a furnished rental. there are no free schools here, you get what you pay for, allow 30 - 60 0000 a year depending on the age of your kids so make sure you allow for that.

Crime yes it is bad and can be violent, I've never had a problem but know plenty of people who have, armed robberies and car jacking are not uncommon. I don't have a gun and don't know anyone who does, asking for trouble IMO. I get the sense that Durban is much safer but I have only ever visited on holiday, I would always live in a gated community here, but none of my other friends do and they seem quite happy.

Schools are very good quality and very multi cultural so your kids should fit in just fine, they will also get exposure to lots of different languages and cultures which I think is a good thing

with regards to inequality, yes it is massive and can make you feel uncomfortable. however my view if that I employ 3 people who wouldn't have jobs otherwise, I pay a decent salary, give them all my old clothes and stuff which if they don't want they can sell, lend money if they need etc. Also if you are not working then you can potentially get involved in volunteer work and really make a difference, there are tons of humanitarian organisations who would love to use your time. so if you have the right mindset then you can actually make a meaningful difference.

I would definitely come, you'll have a great time, learn lots, start to look things differently your kids will enjoy a great outdoors lifestyle. But come with your eyes open, live someone sensible, be careful etc etc

please PM if you have any more questions, I can point you in the direction of more websites if you are looking for any specific info.

Re the gun thing - we were in Joburg, we were in a car with a SA local (white) and he showed us the gun. He said he had been subject to an atttempted car-jack at lights,and he shot the guy in the foot. As i said this was joburg.
And squiffy reminded me - yes you will have staff! Most people have live-in help, nannies or maids. The family we were stayingwith in joburg had a lovely black girl. I gave her my clothes when i left, as i couldn't fit them in.

The mother (of 2) couldn't beleive i look after a house, i work, cook and clean and look after 3kids on my ownin the uk!

The crime and poverty are heartbreaking. The country is beautiful, and only 12 hours away. I would jump at it, with a decent package.

Hi all. Just a quick update, though nothing to really tell! DH is meeting with the company tomorrow afternoon so I will hopefully have a lot more info tomorrow night.

C0smos if you don't mind, I will take you up on the offer to PM once I know the lay of the land.

I have been doing a little research and I am starting to warm to the idea I think! The driving thing still scares me and obviously people have had bad experiences but I'm beginning to think if I pick the right place to live and the right schools etc. we should be ok!

I am so grateful to all of you for taking the time to reply. It's really helping me to sort through my feelings etc so thank you! :)

Happy to help and yes feel free to PM me.

Re driving, don't panic we drive on the same side of the road and the roads are good quality. There are only 2 roads from the North Coast to Durban central, a brand new motorway toll road or a lovely scenic drive along the coast on an A type road. The traffic is really not too bad in Durban.

The main thing to get the hang of is stop streets, locals also never know how to use roundabouts so they tend to treat them as stop streets. Always give way to taxis (mini vans) as they don't care if they get in an accident.

Buy a sat nav if you're worried about getting lost, but you'll soon find your way as you'll always have the sea to check your bearings!

Any news?

Hi

We live in Cape Town and love it!!!!!!!!

If you do move here, rent first on very, very short term rental and check out the area.

Where I live we walk everywhere, leave windows and doors open all the time and are less crime aware than when we were living in central London. Honestly!

But the key thing is living in right place. Get somewhere on short term weekly/monthly rental and check out area first. Then move somewhere longer term.

I would always recommend security estate/complex to expats.

I know our experience of SA is so different to "locals". I don't want people flaming me for a narrow expat view. I work in our local townships 4 days out 7 so I know the world here is very different.

If you have a bit of money (and most expats do by definition) then you can live a great life.

I have no idea how you can PM me but send me a response on this thread and I'll send you my email address.

Good luck what ever you decide!

Think OP's gone, Indaba (love the name BTW!) think she might have been scared off Durban! Cape Town would be a different option tho, I was in Cape Town last year and absolutely loved it. The division between rich and poor is unsettling tho. Wedrove down to NAtures Valley too, spent a week there, and it is my official 'happy place'!

Where abouts in CT are you?

Hi
We moved from the uk with two kids aged 11 & 15 to Pretoria last year.
I love it here, TBH it's not the country or the fear of violence that cause me problems it's the complete lack of (promised) company support and the loneliness that have affected me.
The way of life here is so very different, I could talk for hrs on the subject. I blog over at www.chickenruby.com about life here, visas, car insurance, opening a bank account etc. I'm also on twitter as @chickenruby. Let me know if I can help you in anyway. No one helped us, it's been an unnecessary learning curve.

Did the OP ever come back? Would be interested to know what happened.

We have been in Joburg 3 years now and very happy (although we might be relocating to Cape Town at the end of the year which is a rather exciting prospect!).

I don't have any more advice/experience to add on top of what is already in this thread.

We spent 2-3 years in Cape Town back in the 1980s and loved it. We decided not to stay out there as we missed family but it was a beautiful place and a great experience. We keep threatening to go back for a holiday to see how it's changed, believe Cape Town is very different now.

Hey