Leaving Comfort Zone, Moving To A Life Less Ordinary?!?

[SueDeNym]

Hi

Just hoping to chat out a few of our thoughts re a possible relocation, with those of you who have done it, please. Was it the best thing you have done, do you struggle, not ever properly able to feel 'at home'? Or is it now absolutely home? I like the idea of being a nomadic free spirit, travelling here for a year, there for a while, then somewhere else, but I also like my home comforts, familiarity, security, a base.

I have been in my home for eight years, comfortable, happy, lovely location. I am a SAHP to one DC, 16mo. TTC DC2.
DH is being considered for a job in Europe. He is bored of his current job, and the new job would be a good career move, even if it is only for the duration of one project (15-18 months), it will be a great stepping stone and experience for him. I am excited at the prospect of upping sticks, but also anxious. I don't speak a word of the language, though I understand English is widely spoken there. Not that I want to be one of those ignoramuses who don't try and learn. I also do like that DC1 will be exposed to a second language, what an advantage that would be, to be immersed in a second language so young, when they can pick it up so easily.

It would be a good base location in Europe from which to explore other areas of Europe, much of which I have not been to. I like the idea of well-travelled DC, I think it is good for them.

What should we be thinking about? Do you travel light? We have been dejunking, but after eight years here, and merging two homes as we both owned before we married, we still have quite a bit of stuff. I guess we'd have to put some things in storage/PIL's garage.

So much to consider. DH has not got the job yet, but if they say yes, they want an answer from him soon, so we need to think now.

Would appreciate some encouragement. Thanks.

dh is ex-military, so we moved around the world every two years for 16 years with our small people. we have now emigrated to canada.

i love that my kids have had experience of other cultures and i'm a little bit disappointed that we are theoretically now stable (but ssshhhh, don't tell dh) but i already have fantasy trips in my head of all the places we could take them. weirdly, mostly back to europe now that we have left it!

we have stopped because dd1 is now in high school. is it wrong to be contemplating home ed so that our travels can continue?

you will have a great time. i loved the freedom of new places and finding out what we could do, where we could go. i usually started planning with schools/ health etc about 3mos prior to each move (dd2 has sn).

even if you do it for a few years and then retunr to uk, it will be a fabulous experience for all of you. and a great way to pick up languages!

i'd like to say we travelled light, but we don't. we have finally gathered all of our belongings into one house from the various storage facilities... i could probably furnish several houses and this one is teeny. so decide from the off what your plan is regarding furniture - if you intend to rent furnished, then try to resist the temptation to buy too much as you go (except for those perfect finds you have to have). or take everything every time.

how exciting! go for it.

Thanks so much for the response, outofbodyexperience, much appreciated.

We have been planning to home ed all along, we will do so even if we remain here, unless the DC actively desire to go to school, or we feel we aren't doing them justice. But I feel pretty sure we can do it, and the DC will thrive. The language thing is a big bonus re home ed, as it is one of the few things that between us, neither DH or I are especially proficient in. Though hopefully that will change for us too.

I do like the idea of travelling light (Imagine!)! Well, not quite 'no possessions', but nothing hefty. Camera, iPad/PC, passport, credit card, wedding rings, done!

I went travelling when I was early twenties, that was easy, I had barely anything to my name! Now I am late thirties, I have furniture (beautiful antiques I've amassed over the years), a beautiful rug, nice bedlinen, wedding photos, baby clothes I'd like to keep for DC's DC! Stuff! Then I think, none of it REALLY matters, if there was a fire, all that matters is DH, DC, me! How nice to be free, and just GO!

Ah, but those beautiful things are essentials, really. A sense of home wherever you hang your hat, type of thing.

Have you researched he wherever you are likely to end up? I know in the Netherlands it was illegal at one point, although I gather things have changed. Have been looking at it seriously for a while as ds would benefit. The girls are well institutionalised though.

I'll try and remember to watch this thread so I can catch up on whether it works out!

Well they are, and they aren't! I do think it will be nice to break free a bit, I don't need most of the clothes I have, the music collection can be downloaded to the computers, furniture can be replaced. My husband and child are my sense of home.

DS is only 16mo, so our first stop won't be an issue. If HE is illegal anywhere we are considering going, we'd only be there for a short while, so the school experience could be chalked up to that - an experience. Or we just avoid that country, we don't have to go anywhere.

I will keep this thread updated, thank you for your input and interest.

I have been an expat for 17 years and if I were you would consider the following:
learning the language and how you will cope with pregnancy and birth if you are struggling with a new language
I put ds in a local school to learn the language and educated him at home in English in the afternoons (school was mornings only in Austria)
take your possessions with you - as out of body says these are essentials and give you a sense of home regardless of the country you are in.
We don't travel light - (it's more difficult with children's toys, books, bikes etc) had over 100 boxes shipped to China and have the contents of my house in store in Vienna.
Enjoy the opportunity to travel. DS was born in Germany and it was great to just get in the car and drive to Italy, Netherlands, Austria etc.

Thanks, Shanghaidiva.
I am keen to be able to speak the language, though I don't think languages are a forte of mine. I have given a lot of thought to being PG elsewhere, and giving birth, and I do have reservations. However, I am not even PG yet (well, in the 2ww, so fingers crossed! But if not,), I don't think we can keep putting off getting on with things. I may not even get lucky enough to get another baby.
If I do get PG though, have it stuck in my head that I'd like them born here at THIS home, where I feel very comfortable, where I had DC1, where the community MWs are great, known to me, supportive of homebirth. DH has said we could come home for the birth, we'd be renting out our home so could do so on a short-term let, which is doable in this area, luckily. But, and I'm not even PG yet, I'd have to have all antenatal care abroard. And then travel back to the UK heavily PG, DH getting time off work, wouldnt want him to miss the birth. Don't know how this works. Am I being silly and just obstructive?

You are right re the stuff the DC have. DS has so many books already, and he is only 16mo. Is it bad I am considering getting all his books from now on on the iPad!!! Or a Kindle? Toys, yes, he has loads. His stuff, we will take. Mine, I do think now may be a good time to have a huge cutback on worldly possessions, and feel lighter. Lead a more ascetic life. I will store a few things - my wedding dress, for example, rent this place out furnished, so we can always come back to to it. But for a new life, live minimally. Am I talking nonsense?

Update for oobe. DH was offered the job first thing this morning. Eek!!! I think we will give our answer on Monday. EEK!!!!! He sent me a text this morning 'Exciting times ahead no matter what. I will always make sure you are happy.' We can just come home if we're not.

Ooooo!
Exciting times.

Two out of three of my dc's were born abroad, one in an English speaking country, one not (also Germany lol). We decided to go back to the UK for the birth of dd2 -my only NHS baby, so returned when I was 28 weeks pg as it was long haul. (we figured it would be easier with three under five to have family in the same country for a couple of years!). As it turned out, dd2 suffered a birth injury and spent a long time in scbu and has a disability as a result. there's a small part of me that wonders what would have happened if we had stayed o'seas for the birth, but there's no real way of knowing. She might not even have survived. Soooo, I'm kinda meh about the whole childbirth in the UK thang.

I have a friend who was trying to get me to have babies everywhere we went and then write a book about pg and childbirth around the world.

Enjoy your weekend! I suspect you are going to be on a roller coaster whilst you decide!

Have fun!

Thanks, oobe! :)

Really sorry to hear what happened to your DD2, :(.

It is actually Germany where we'd be going. And I am sure their hospitals are similar to ours in many ways, but I am hoping for another homebirth, which right now, I'd like to happen in our present home, where it feels really homely, the MWs are great and pro-hb, and we are very close to hospitals should the need arise. I also have it in my head that my DC should have equal starts and both/all have the same place of birth! The sensible bit in my head says this is daft, but still, it is there! :)
I've also read that Germany have strict rules re what you can register your baby's name as, and let's just say, DH and I have less than traditional tastes in babynames, that might not pass the German rules! :)

I think we have actually pretty-much decided to go for it!

I am busy thinking of the hundreds of things we will have to do to get sorted.

• Contract builders for loft conversion, ideal time while we are out of the house, will increase rental income, so very worth it, despite initial hassle. We have already started the ball rolling re planning permission etc, need to get things completed. DH's new work provide accommodation for us to start with, until we find our own, so no pressure there, at least.
• Get passport for DC
• Cancel various DDs, bills, subscriptions etc,
• Dejunk
• Store treasured items with PILs
• Pack

We get over the 'equal' thing by shipping everyone back to the uk to be christened in the same church that dh and I got married in. So they've been born all around the world, but in theory have a 'home town' even though none of them have ever lived in it. (nor dh and I. It's where I grew up and my parents got married as well). Mine actually quite like that they were all born in different countries.

The German medical system is of course great. I actually had to have a cs in Germany for macrosomia, so mine was about as medicalised as you could get. I'm not going to be much use re hb! They give the newborns fennel tea to help them get over the trauma of the birth (kinda odd for Brit mums who want to bf immediately) and they use amazing sky high duvets from birth. alternative medicine is v popular and mainstream. For regular births they are likely to offer you a homeopathic remedy for the pain, and I know when I was there (a long time ago now so it might have changed!) there was no access to gas and air at all.

I really loved Germany. So many cool places to travel to!

Take your treasures!

Nice idea re the Christenings. Though not our thing.

No gas and air??? That magic stuff got me through last time! Right, I am definitely insisting we come home to London for a birth if I get PG soon! What is a sky high duvet?

By treasures, I mean stuff like my wedding dress, which was huge, and I am only really saving in case I get a DD (or DIL) who might want to wear it. Too big to lug around with me. I am hearing you re homely items, just trying to free up some space, and lead a more frugal and less cluttered life.

Ah ok. My wedding dress got trashed by the dry cleaners so I tend to forget that stuff!

We have friends who did the same thing for naming ceremony - they went back every two years and had a big garden party and naming thing, and planted trees in their il's garden for each baby. Fruit trees I think. Ours have all sent nectarine stones back to the uk, and fil has planted them in his garden, so each summer we get an update on how many nectarines 'their' tree has grown.

Just massive big puffy baby size duvets... Light as air but snuggly.

Aw, I'm v excited for you - have fun planning!

Oh no! Darn dry cleaners!

Love the tree idea! I don't think we will lead an expat life full time, I have this idea that we will have a home in the UK, spend a year+ in, say, Germany, UK for six months, a year somewhere else, back to the UK for six months or so, and so on.

The duvets sound nice!

Thank you. And thank you so much for all your advice so far.

Hi Sue - we relocated to Germany 2 years ago and I gave birth in September. I didn't have a home birth & things were a little different for us as DH is German & I also speak the language, but you're more than welcome to PM me if you need help with anything/have any questions.
Otherwise, pop over to the Germany & Austria thread - we're a friendly bunch :)

Ah, I wondered if it was Germany.

This is unlikely to affect you with your DC being so young, but home schooling is actually illegal in Germany (unlike Austria, for instance). Once your child reaches the age of 5 or 6 - the exact age will depend on the federal state you live in - you have to register them in a legally recognised school, although this can of course be an English-language school or a Waldorf (Steiner) school for the more alternative types.

Nursery education is not compulsory, but to be recommended and highly subsidised (from the age of 3 to 6). Finding a nursery place for kids under 3 is much more problematic but there are plenty of mother and toddler groups.

My experience of giving birth in Germany was incredibly positive - so much better than the horror stories you hear in the UK. The health system here is fantastic, but insurance-based. Your DH will pay contributions in with his salary and you (as a SAHM) and the DC are included on his insurance free of charge.

But no, there is no gas and air for births. If you're moving to a largish city it really pays to look at the profile of each hospital and examine their CS statistics and epidural rates etc. I gave birth in a Geburtshaus, an independent midwife-run birthing centre and it was brilliant - like a home birth but less mess to clear up, plus a birthing pool for my exclusive use. I've never heard of fennel tea for newborns though, perhaps it's a regional thing. I drank tons of the stuff when breastfeeding - and there is very strong pressure to breastfeed, but less prejudice than in UK.

Re names: yes, a registrar can officially reject your child's name if it is either not an official name or not appropriate for that gender, or disrespectful to your child's dignity (Tallula does the Hula etc). An official name is defined as you can prove it exists IN YOUR CULTURE. And they're much more generous with non-German families out of fear at being called racist or revealing their ignorance of other cultures. We gave our children very Irish middle names and took along baby-name books to prove they existed. It was no problem, but we met a German family who called their DD the same name and the registrar kicked up a stink. In practice you're only going to have a problem if you choose Destineee or the like, and if you do that I have no sympathy.

If you're coming to Berlin I can give you a lot more help via PM. Or you could join in the with German/Austrian chat, which surfaces periodically.

I think you should absolutely do it, I've done 3 expat assignments and I loved it especially since having children. We have tended to leave our furniture behind in storage and just take personal belongings that instantly make your new place feel like home.
You will never regret going and you can always come home but you don't want to spend the rest of your life regretting passing up opportunities that don't come around again!

Thank you, Gator, I have started reading that thread, I like to read a thread to the end before I jump in, but it's taking me a long time! Maybe I will just dive in! Though I feel like I've got lots else to do now, going to be very busy! Congratulations on your new baby. I will cross the where to prepare/give birth bridge as and when we get a BFP.

Hi, Darrow, thank you for your advice and information. Really good to know re homeschooling being illegal. Well, it is unlikely we will be in Germany when DS is of school-age, but good to know. I am not bothered about nursery either - I will take him to swimming, and softplay, and classes like gym, dance, football, music, stuff to get us busy and meeting people and speaking German.

I am really really astounded by the gas and air thing!

:) No, our babynames aren't crazy, but the girl's name is unisex, and I have my heart set on it, and would be really annoyed if someone told me I couldn't name my child a name of my choice. Anyway, no BFP yet, so will concentrate on the rest of the plans, and cross that bridge when necessary!

I will join that thread once DH officially accepts the job offer, and we know timeframes etc. It is Frankfurt, btw.

Thanks, UsedToBeSane, good encouragement!
I think it looks like we are going for it. I am a bit anxious, it is a major upheaval. Hopefully worth it.

Do you minimalise your wardrobe, or take as many clothes as you can? I have quite a lot of clothes, bags, shoes, thinking I really don't need them all, I should cut down, send half of it to the charity shop, but I don't want to regret this!

I always take all my clothes, discover that my style changes completely in a new place depending on what everyone else is wearing (not fashion so much as cultural) and then don't wear half of it ever again. But I'm slightly paranoid about sticking out like a sore thumb and v conformist!!

I am mainly in jeans and trainers, running around after toddler boy.

I am pretty much NON-conformist :), and whilst I'd obviously respect cultural/religious requirements, I don't think Germany is much different to Britain, in a clothing sense. Except possibly a bit colder!

Oh I'm not too far from Frankfurt! It's a lovely area (around Frankfurt & in the Rheingau/Taunus area) - especially if you like wine.

I had a clear out before we moved but ended up bringing loads of clothes and was gald I did - the clothes shops here are all a bit samey - but then I guess you could probably say that about most places :)

I didn't have gas and air when I gave birth (it wasn't on offer, as Darrow says) but there were other forms of pain relief available. DS is my first baby so I can't really compare to the UK but it was a positive experience as far as births go.

As far as names go, as long as you can show the name exists for the gender then you should be ok - best to check these things though!

Hello!

I'm in Germany too - there's no such thing as soft play here (or is that just my bit of Germany - maybe somebody will correct me, there do seem to be huge regional cultural differences - we're outside Munich) one of the things that struck me when we moved here from Surrey (where there was a soft play 500meters from my front door) is that there is not as much indoor child specific entertainment/ play centres. Loads to do outdoors though. Here there are also far fewer little groups for small children - football officially starts at 5 for example... There are mother-child gymnastics groups - I didn't find a lot apart from that and toddlers before the children were 4ish.

Join a toddlers group for German - if you choose not to use a Kindergarten (when your child is around 3-6 years old) and you don't speak German at home, your child is very unlikely to speak the language fluently by the end of a year or so's stay, though he may pick up lots of useful phrases (my dd picked up "Noch Ein Mal" at her first ever toddlers group session soon after we moved here ("Again" basically - they had a little slide and the kids were taking turns...)

I found the first year a very intense sequence of highs and lows - I was running on adrenaline for the move, which happened very suddenly, then had a huge black low for about 2 weeks when things weren't as I had expected once we moved (we are much more rural and far from anything than I had expected, there was no broadband or even ISBN internet for our first 3 years, mobile phones don't work in our village - essentially it boiled down at first to where we are not being as I expected). Once I got my own car I perked up and made a real effort to get the most out of things, get dd fully settled, there was the adrenaline leading up to the birth of DS1, 3 months after we moved... then the first winter here with a 3 month old was very, very, very hard - there is nobody about a lot of the time in winter and I had got used to the village playground being a place I'd always bump into another mum, or a walk 'round the village - in winter I could go days without seeing anyone, and winters are much longer and harder than in the UK. Once DS1 was about 6 months old, and spring rolled around again, I rallied and tried a language course, but it found it near impossible to do "properly" with a small baby and 2 year old especially as the courses were quite "serious" - intended for those from outside the EU who have to reach a certain standard for their visa, and they were 3 hours in the evening, when I could barely stay awake, twice a week, plus homework - I fell behind and didn't want to go out from 7pm - 11pm (including the drive) 2 evenings a week and gave up.

After a year I got onto more of an even keel, after 2 years I found a bit of a part time job... After 4.5 years the ups and downs are far less intense, and now DD has started school I don't think we will leave until all (3 now) of the kids are through school....

I ended up having 2 DC here, but had c-sections so my experiences not that relevant except antenatal care - I had an emergency c-section in the UK though, and both my experiences here rank a thousand times better than my UK birth.

Long essay there, what you are planning to do is quite different if you are only looking at short term stays in various places - I do think you need to think a bit about whether your children would want a bit of stability and to be able to make lasting friendships once they are school age, otherwise the only stable thing in their lives will be you, and do you really want that? ´That is possibly a personal thing though...

Wow SueDeNym, I was about to start a very similar thread. DH is currently in negotiation with a company in Frankfurt, and we may be moving from London. I have lived in Germany before but as a student, so obviously I was looking at things a little differently then. We have 2 DC and don't intend to have more, but I have a billion questions. Guess I'll hang on here and see what I can find out.

But before we commit, can anyone please tell me how much cheaper it might be to live in the Frankfurt area than in central London (we want to be a bit more rural). We were fully prepared to live on a bit less income, but what DH has been offered is substantially less than we'd hoped for, and we're not sure we can manage on it if I have to stay at home with the DC (ages 1 and 3).

Hope you don't think I'm highjacking your thread SueDeNym

Thanks, Gator. What other forms of pain relief are there? Though I do think I'll be returning to our present home for the birth, weighing it all up.

Thatisnotitatall, I'm from Surrey!
No soft play, hm. DS doesn't go loads, but it's good for when it's cold outside, when he has to be so wrapped up he waddles! I like the idea of mother/toddler gymnastics though. We have so much on our doorstep for them to do here, they can start club football much earlier than five.
Your start sounds very isolating. We should be more central, with good Internet connexions, hopefully this will help. And yes, I am initially just looking at an 18month stint, then consider our options, which makes it feel a bit less daunting for me.

Not at all, 40, will be great to have someone to share ideas/fears with, going through it at the same time! Welcome aboard! Do keep me posted if you go for it, your youngest is the same age as mine!
Are you considering it a long-term move?
Does the company offer relocation packages/incentives?