Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Living overseas

Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

Expats, have you obtained a better standard of living by moving overseas and if yes, where did you move to?

41 replies

suebfg · 27/12/2011 19:56

The reason I ask is that DH and I are hankering after a move overseas with our young DS - not a permanent move but a move for 3 -4 years or so.

But we have a reasonably good standard of living in the UK and want to maintain a similar standard of living overseas. A priority is excellent schooling for DS (who is at private primary school in UK).

Where could we reasonably achieve this do you think?

OP posts:
kreechergotstuckupthechimney · 28/12/2011 07:00

We had a much better standared of living in Oman and Thailand, much worse off in Switzerland and on a par with the UK in Belgium.

nooka · 28/12/2011 07:17

I don't think you should be thinking so much about the country, but much more about the job(s) that could get you there. Essentially you need to think about the sort of job that would pay considerably more in another country than the UK. Emigrating is very expensive, and costs of living vary considerably within countries as well as between them. For example I've seen people say that the cost of living is lower in the States than the UK, but we found New York City more expensive than London. BIL went on (at some length) that Melbourne was much cheaper than London, but now they have moved there have found this not at all the case.

Also you need to give more of an idea as to what 'living' means for you. I have a friend who emigrated so that he could live on a first class ski hill. For him his standard of living is now very very high, but if you were thinking about non skiing benefits then his previous life might seem better.

empirestateofmind · 28/12/2011 07:18

Life is different in Singapore but overall our standard of living is higher than it would be in the UK.

thelittlestkiwi · 28/12/2011 07:46

Yes and no.

We live by the sea and OH has a 15 min commute to work. The sun shines in summer (although not so far this year!) and we spend a lot of time outside.

But housing is shit and cold in winter and the cost of living is high. I wouldn't move here on less than a good UK salary.

We live in Auckland, NZ.

I think a 3/4 year move is a good length of time. Moving is hard work and settling takes time so a shorter move means you don't get as much out of it.

DisTwinkleyMincePies · 28/12/2011 07:56

Um. Moved to Australia (Brisbane) for 'the adventure' aka 2 years.

It is extremely expensive. We lived happily in the UK, here we live from payday to payday. It's v.stressful.

Our dc enjoy their (non-private) school, but it's not at the equivalent level of UK schools as they start much later here.

We do have a pool here. It has not been used anywhere near as much as we had anticipated.

DH has an hours commute each way - more than in the UK.

It is not like 'Phil in the sun'.

Catslikehats · 28/12/2011 07:57

Much better standard of living in UAE.

Materially:

Large house with pool,
FT help,
DC's in good British school,
boat,
great hols to Thailand, maldives etc which a near + local travel to Oman rest of ME region.

Emotionally:

Shorter commute for DH,
DH has a job he really enjoys and challenges him,
I have been SAHM for 4 years but about to return to work on an opportunity I would never get in the UK.

Close to the beach,
DD and I ride regularly (we can ride in the evenings which we couldn't in UK because dark)
Very social - arab hospitality is second to none and most of our friends have large disposable incomes which mean days/evenings out are frequent.

The UAE gets a slating particularly on MN but it has afforded us an amazing opportunity to live in a safe, tolerant, multicultural society where children are treasured.

We have a far more "outdoors" lifestyle than we did in the UK, mostly because although the weather is very hot for a large proportion of the year the days are so much longer which means we don't balk at evening activities with younger kids.

Although we had a decent standard of living in the UK, we have the added advantage of being able to save significant sums whilst we are here. That would not be a possibility in the UK particularly in the current climate.

Catslikehats · 28/12/2011 08:05

I should add that we moved in 2007 for 2 years, we are still here and all being well will probably stay at least another 3.

We (me particularly) do however live with one foot in the UK. We keep a house there and I visit regularly. Although I love life in the UAE I miss my family enormously and often wish I could split my life in two.

natation · 28/12/2011 10:19

We are in Brussels.

We rent the same size house as we own in the UK, cost is double what our house rents for, in a cheap area in UK, but cost is less than we'd pay for this house in a suburb of London. So housing is less expensive than London but more expensive than a provincial British city. We also have to pay almost all maintenance charges and we must give the house back in the same condition we rented it in.

Public transport is considerably cheaper. Hubby pay £400 a year for unlimited bus/metro/tram. Pay average of £80 a year for our over 12s, free for under 12s.

Opportunities out of school for the children are fantastic and generally much cheaper. Our children swim as their main sport, the eldest I pay £220 a year instead of £800 a year. I pay £10 for a half hour pony lesson, would not have even considered it in the UK. Massive choice of activities, too much to choose.

Child care is plentiful and cheap and accessible, nearly every school has 7am to 6.30/7pm care. We pay a maximum of £4 per day for this care at school. During the holidays, weekly day child care costs from £40 to £150 depending on what activities are chosen, basic child care or a week of pony riding. Residential child care is plentiful too. I paid £150 for our eldest to do a Mon-Fri multi-activity residential course this Summer.

Schooling is DIFFERENT. Private international schooling costs from £6000 to £25000 per year, depending on school. Public school costs roughly £400 a year each child in the French system, less in Flemish system. School is more learning by heart and exams from age 6, less arts / music / team sports (that's done outside school), but it depends on each school as some are more forward-thinking than others. There are also alternative "method" schools which would be in the private system in the UK such as Steiner schools, which are in the public system here. Standards are without doubt higher in public schools - our 13 year old does Maths at same standard as his 15 year old sibling in international school.

Taxes are VERY HIGH for those with just 1 or 2 children, much less for 3 or 4 or 5 children as you are given a tax allowance with each child. Housing benefit does not exist. Child tax credits do not exist. Child benefit is same as UK for 1 child, much more for 2+ children and is not means tested. We get 2 1/2 times child benefit here than we got in the UK.

We don't save any more money here than we did in the UK. However, hubby has no night shifts here and sees more of the children. The children have far more opportunities here than in the UK. We do not have druggies at the end of our street like we did in our nice middle class area in the UK (god knows what it was like in the council estates where we lived).

I wouldn't recommend Belgium with 1 child unless you are on an expat package and don't pay full local taxes and unless you are comfortable with local schooling - I don't get the point of coming to Belgium to put children into international schools as you then never really get to take advantage of Belgium.

QueenLush · 28/12/2011 13:22

Interesting question! I think to improve your standard of living, you need to look at going somewhere on an expat contract, where you get a housing allowance, school fees paid (but make sure that the international school - if that is what you choose - is of a good standard, as some are distinctly mediocre) and a stonking salary to go with it.

We lived in Belgium for 5 years and had a large house in the British ghetto a nice village just outside Brussels, a short commute to work, Brussels and Leuven a short drive or bus ride away, kids in international school, and an overall better quality of life. We're now in Paris, and have a lovely, very Parisian flat, in a nice area, kids in a good (international) school. We have more money here than we have ever had before, but I work long hours, and my quality of life is nowhere near as good as it was in Belgium.

We also saw friends in Belgium who had a nice life on an expat package, moved to a local contract after 5 years - some stuck it out on this (usually those who had a spouse who taught at one of the international schools, where the kids had free or very reduced school fees), but quite a lot moved back to UK/Aus/US as the Belgian taxes hit them really hard.

QueenLush · 28/12/2011 13:27

Also agree with Natation on putting children in local schools if you are there for the duration. We knew we were not going to be there for more than 5 years, so opted for the British school. I found it - frankly - bizarre that people who were going to be in Belgium for 20+ years kept their children in the British school. They existed in a little bubble, learned no French or Dutch, and had no friends outside of the school.

makemineacherrybrandy · 28/12/2011 13:36

We had a very good standard of living in the Middle East. Good tax free salaries that we were easily able to save from, nice apartment, felt safe and good social life. In my opinion Dubai is a super place to live, but I know it's not for everyone. People seem to love or hate it.

Pretty dire standard of living in Eastern Europe mainly due to lack of things to do on a day to day basis.

Now in Central America and it's just OK. International schools are American based but a good opportunity for learning Spanish.

Thumbinnapuddingwitch · 28/12/2011 13:51

Hmm.
Moved to Australia with Aussie DH in August 2009. Therefore no immigrant type worries about jobs/ school fees etc. (if you're here with a short-term job, you have to pay for state schools - some employers will pay these costs, others won't).
We are extremely lucky to have no worries re. house payments - my MIL owns our house and rents it to us at peppercorn rates. This enormously affects our standard of living for the better because we are not at the mercy of bank interest rates, or landlords/agents.
DH managed to get a good job with decent pay, allowing me to not have to bother just yet (although I still make a little money on UK book royalties and a tiny amount on renting my UK house out)

Because of the above, our standard of living has improved - in that the house is larger, we have more outdoor space and a pool, we have MIL 15mins away who helps out with babysitting and much more.
We also do not have the schools worry that is so prevalent in the UK - here you go to the local school, or you can choose another one and go on their waiting list - but you won't be allocated a school miles away rather than the nearest.

Apart from that - it's bloody expensive here. About the only thing cheaper here than the UK is petrol - that's about AU$1.44/L at the mo. Electricity, gas, water - all bloody expensive. Food - bloody expensive and shockingly variable in price! Grapes, for e.g. - can go from a low of about AU$2.98/kg to about AU$15.98/kg; bananas are back at sane levels now but after the floods in Brisbane early this year, they were up at about $16/kg as well (now about $2).

Clothes (especially baby/toddler), books, DVDs, CDs, toys - all more expensive here. You can get some stuff cheaper on line from out of the country but the lovely Govt here are hoping to introduce a system whereby we automatically have to pay GST (Aussie equivalent of VAT) on anything bought overseas, so that will put the price up massively. Fuckers.

OTOH, dance classes are quite cheap; football = pretty costly but tis a British franchise; swimming classes = pretty costly too but essential IMO. Playgroups = cheap enough (but not free).

Worth it? Well, for me it was part of "the deal", marrying an Aussie - so although there was a nominal option to return after 3 years if it wasn't working out, I think I'd have to be physically very ill because of being here to get to back to the UK and it's not honestly worth it (besides, I don't want to get into the schools problems in the UK!)

Weather's not all it's cracked up to be either...

Catslikehats · 28/12/2011 14:19

Interesting thoughts coming from a "native couple" thumb

DH very keen to go on to Oz. He has family there and def sees it as his final destination on the expat trail, don't think it is for me though - just too far. I would miss my Dsis's way too much.

Most interested to know what your book royalties are from though Smile

suebfg · 28/12/2011 17:27

Thanks all. Yes,we went to Australia for a few weeks last year and found it incredibly expensive and remote - which isn't great if you're keen travellers like us.

I think the Middle East is probably the best location for us as it's not as far for visits and DH already travels there extensively with his work. Also, we're not looking to emigrate, more of an overseas adventure for a few years with hopefully the opportunity to stash some money away in the process. So now we just need to find the expat jobs!

OP posts:
SilentBoob · 28/12/2011 17:39

We're in the ME.

Financially we are much better off, even allowing for the higher cost of living here and sundry expenses of being an expat.

Materially, the basics are much better - huge house, pool, cleaner, gardener, awesome weekend trips, holidays.

The kids are at an excellent private school.

We see much more of dh, and he loves his job over here and has almost no commute.

The downsides are missing out on family - though plenty of expats manage to keep close family ties going. Also I miss decent food. I want organic, free range, healthy, fresh, REAL food. Instead I have frozen chicken contaminated with melamine, and tired, chlorinated veggies flown thousands of miles across the world.

There's also the moral aspect - it's selling out to be here.

Expat life can be hard, but materially you'll be better off.

DisTwinkleyMincePies · 28/12/2011 21:28

Oh no Thumbwitch - really?

They are also planning to get rid of LAFHA (living away from home allowance) in July. We are going to be in such a crap place as DH has a 2 year contract which doesn't end until Jan 2013.

So crap I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for us to return and live with my parents (our home is rented out until Sep 2012) until DH can return.

Not exactly what we had in mind...

amerryscot · 28/12/2011 21:38

I'm curious. Does anyone have a better standard of living when they are paying their own way?

I think a lot depends on your age and stage. If you are established in the UK, it is a big as to duplicate the standard of living if you are starting from scratch in your new country. There is also the matter of having a similar lifestyle to your new colleagues.

When we were in the USA as expats, we had a good standard of living, but our expat package meant we earned 3x a local employee in the same job. We were in rental housing with no equity, nor did we have educational IRAs for our children. With a newborn baby, we weren't in a position to take advantage of the big salary, so we're able to save it and smooth our return to the UK.

I would say that anyone who voluntarily moves abroad, for cultural experience or love, then you should have a better standard of living. If you can't do this, then it is silly to move. If your company is moving you, they should give you an improved financial package. At the end of the day, the UK is hard to beat.

Thumbinnapuddingwitch · 28/12/2011 21:41

DisTwinkley - which bit are you "oh no" ing about? The GST thing? I don't think that's going to happen very quickly but they keep on about it, to protect the retailers here. Although to be perfectly honest if the retailers here were more interested in keeping their customers by charging reasonable prices, it would be more beneficial for all concerned!

Where are you in Aus?

Queen - it's nothing exciting, I promise - only a textbook! Xmas Smile

petersham · 28/12/2011 22:08

There's also the moral aspect - it's selling out to be here.

...... In what way?

Catslikehats · 29/12/2011 04:30

silentboob the good food is coming Grin Dubai leads the way with the western demands but that has filtered out towards other Emirates and indeed other countries.

For a while all our supermarkets have had a wide range of organic fruit & vegetables on offer and we have two regular farmers markets locally. Change is coming slowly....

ben5 · 29/12/2011 05:05

We're 45km south f Perth Australia. Petrol is cheaper. Food seemed really expensive when we first got here but we soon learned to shop around and remembered we were being paid in dollars and not pounds. This made a big difference. Rates are abit more expensive but my bin man collects our rubbish on christmas day( well he didnt this year as it was a sunday but did a couple of years ago when it was a friday!!). Sporting activties are much more avalible and cheaper than in UK and there is no traffic. I am able to work here because it doesn't take me 45mins to travel 7 miles!
The weather is better. The beach is closer and I dont have to pay a fourtune to park at these beaches. I dont have to pay for parking at most places really which is a bonus!
School class sizes are smaller than those in the UK and private schools are cheaper by a long shot.

SilentBoob · 29/12/2011 06:06

I was living in Dubai until earlier this year QoD and yes, it is better than Oman in that when you get too fed up you can hang the expense and go to Waitrose or the Organic shop. Still not quite on a rural UK standard though. Although the restaurant choices are awesome - I love eating out in Dubai.

DaisyheadMayzie · 29/12/2011 06:18

We moved to NZ 9 years ago and our standard of living is far higher than we left in the UK, but... we came at a very good time. It was 3 NZD to the pound and the house market here had been stagnant for years - now it's 2 NZD to the pound and houses cost double what they did a few years ago. Also DH took voluntary redundancy in the UK which equated to a good year's salary here, he got a job just right for him much sooner than expected and we didn't have to go to Auckland for it. He now works for himself and that is the way to go here as salaries are still pretty low.

It depends how you calculate standard of living - if it's monetary, then no, don't come to NZ for the money. It certainly isn't somewhere to make a quick buck. But if it's the all round experience - more free time, less commute, less pressure, less commercialism, kids being kids for longer, less rules and regulations around everything - then I think most people have a better quality of life, even if your average person doesn't have a new car or go abroad on holiday (and why would you when there are some of the most beautiful beaches in the world on your doorstep).

Stuff is generally more expensive, food, clothes, books, etc, but there is lots to do for free, less stuff to buy and less pressure to own it (or in my small town that is the case, may be different in the bigger cities). The weather is better and people tend to socialise more at each others homes than at restaurants.

Oh and like Thumb, I'm English and DH is a native. I don't think there are many additional expenses here if you are both immigrants though, except for residency permits, etc.

Catslikehats · 29/12/2011 06:20

Sorry silent I had assumed you were somewhere a little more off the beaten track Grin !

I have to say I am finding the quality increasingly better on an almost weekly basis in the UAE and having spent some time living in the UK last year (as I wanted my DC4 to be born there) I found I had overrated the UK supermarkets in my mind.

I found the good stuff to be just as pricey as the UAE and the cheap options to be really ropey. The steak for example I find to be far better than anything I can get in uk, although I will concede a decent chicken is harder to come by!

yellowraincoat · 29/12/2011 06:28

I think, as others have said, it depends a lot on what jobs you have/can do.

I was a teacher of English as a foreign language in various countries when I was younger.

In terms of cultural opportunities and where I would raise a child, Germany was amazing. Difficult to get work as a teacher, but your money goes far, people are intelligent, there's lots to do. There just seemed to be a lot less bullshit than in the UK. I lived in Berlin, I know the rest of Germany is not quite as interesting.

In Saudi Arabia, I could save money which was amazing, but the sheer level of headfuckery did me in after a bit. Maybe if I'd been married it would have been easier. As a single woman, I found life there very very hard. Although my Saudi students were lovely, all the embassy parties/expat get-togethers were just so horribly false. I hated that there was all this money flowing while people paid their cleaner (or "maid" as they liked calling them) a pound an hour. It sickened me to be honest. It just seemed to attract a certain type of person, the type of person for whom having a driver and a swimming pool and a big car were more important than anything else. But if you want to save a shedload of money, and you are an engineer or a nurse or a teacher or anything like that, it's worth it for a year or two.