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Anyone in Japan? Tsunami alert - any more news ? PLEASE

518 replies

RatherBeOnThePiste · 11/03/2011 06:50

DH who gets these things has had a tsunami alert for Japan. Does anyone have any more info? Itsjust breaking news about the massive earthquake at the moment.

OP posts:
meditrina · 13/03/2011 16:44

Thingumy: can you help me clear up how many places are affected: reports say there are problems (all with cooling systems, it seems) at:

a) Daiichi-Fukushima (reactor 3 and now reactor 1)
b) Onagawa
c) Tokai No.2

Are b) and c) the same place?

BeenBeta · 13/03/2011 16:54

If one thing is clear this will stop dead any chance of further nuclear plant being built anywhere in the world.

Thingumy · 13/03/2011 16:57

Tokai Plant

Onagawa plant

Fukushima Plant

They are 3 different nuclear plants Meditrina

Thingumy · 13/03/2011 16:59

Tokai Plant is located about 120 km (75 miles) north of Tokyo.

BeenBeta · 13/03/2011 17:12

I was trying to work out what the link between all these plants is. They are not in the same physical location but are effectivley next to each other in electrical terms because they are located on a common electric grid non of which is functioning.

They did immediatley switch off when the grid failed and their reactor rods did drop in but the reactors are still hot and will still generate some heat. They are not receiving any power from the grid or generating ther own so they will be relying on very large diesel engines to power the coolant pumps.

The Fukushima plant engines failed because they sucked in seawater as the tsunami hit. The later two plants that have had cooling failures may either have run out of fuel or their engines have simply developed a fault.

Thingumy · 13/03/2011 17:24

More info coming through..

1721: More on the Tokai nuclear power plant: A report submitted to the Ibaraki prefectural government by the Japan Atomic Power Company said that one of the two pumps being used to cool the water of a suppression pool for the plant's nuclear reactor had stopped working, according to the Kyodo news agency. However, the other pump was still working and there was no problem with cooling the reactor, the prefectural government said. All control rods were set in completely at the reactor, it added.

1710: The crisis has renewed concern in other countries about the safety of atomic power. In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel said it represented a turning point for the world. She said that safety standards at her own country's nuclear power stations would now be reviewed. In the United States, Senator Joe Lieberman said Washington needed to put the brakes on the development of nuclear power plants until lessons were learned from what had happened in Japan.
1706: The news about Tokai comes as the authorities battle to prevent a meltdown at the stricken Fukushima-Daiichi complex. Sea water is being pumped into three overheating reactors there. The plant was rocked by an explosion on Saturday, which blew off the roof of one reactor building. Meanwhile, a state of emergency has been declared at a second nuclear site. The International Atomic Energy Agency said increased levels of radiation had been detected at Onagawa, close to the area worst hit by the tsunami.

1702: The Japan Atomic Power Company has said the cooling system of a reactor at its Tokai nuclear power plant is working, although two of the three diesel power generators used for cooling are out of order, the Reuters news agency reports. The plant, about 120km (75 miles) north of Tokyo in Ibaraki prefecture, was automatically shut down after Friday's earthquake.

fridakahlo · 13/03/2011 19:30

BeenBeta, I wish what you have said could be true, but believe me they will! Sad

MmeLindt · 13/03/2011 19:32

I don't understand what the problem is with the diesel pump, if they have been damaged, would it be such a huge undertaking to fly a new engine in? Or are the engines so big?

BeenBeta · 13/03/2011 19:52

They are huge engines. Typically Komatsu or Caterpillar like the ones that power big construction machines. That is not the problem though. Its the complicated control systems attached to them and the gearing and calibration that is probably custom made.

Very difficult to replace at short notice in a matter of 24 hours. Within a week perhaps but not quick enough.

This is the achiles heel of all nuclear plant. They are not allowed to operate without an external electrical feed from the grid to operate their pumps. For obvious safety reasons they cannot use their own self generated power. Once the grid shuts off they immediatley disconnect and switch to back up engines. The fact that one power plant drops off the grid imediatley puts extra load on the remainder of the grid and with pylons being knocked over as well there is not real way the grid can be stood back up either very quickly.

I am really really worried about a slow cascade of nuclear plant gradually heating up if they cannot reconnect them to the grid.

BeenBeta · 13/03/2011 19:57

I've just seen an aerial shot of the Fukushima plant both before and after the tsunami. I am astonishedanything is working at the plant at all. The devastation is enormous.

MmeLindt · 13/03/2011 20:10

Beenbeta DH works for a company that makes engines, but not in enginet division. They are generally able to replace engines and parts at very short notice. Which is why I wondered about that. Makes sense, thanks for explanation.

Thingumy · 13/03/2011 20:25

2020: The rolling, three-hour power outages scheduled to affect prefectures in Kanto and Chubu on Monday - the first in Japan's history - will take place between 0620 and 2200 local time on Monday, says the Japan Times online. "If we continue [using electricity at the current level], there is the possibility of an all-out blackout in the area," it quotes Prime Minister Naoto Kan as saying. "The impact of a sudden, large-scale blackout would be immense and we must prevent it at all costs.

sakura · 14/03/2011 01:54

SugarPasteFrog, After I pick DD up from kindergarten I'm going to take her and DS to the shrine to pray. You know it's interesting that Japanese shrines are open-air, sort of a basic wooden structure in the middle, then lots of trees and open spaces, a central path to the shrine and stream to wash your hands. The trees around the shrine are not allowed to be cut and they say in an earthquake or tsunami you should go to the shrine. They're basically completely earthquake and tsunami proof. You can see why the Japanese didn't build Cathedrals Shock

sakura · 14/03/2011 01:55

they're also build on raised ground

sakura · 14/03/2011 01:58

They've decided to destroy the nuclear reactors. Basically they're just pumping shedloads of seawater into them to cool them down, but obviously the salt is corrosive and they'll never be used again. [me: who gives a fuck whether or not we can use them again]

TanteRose · 14/03/2011 02:01

morning sakura Smile

we were due for a blackout this morning, but it was cancelled Confused there is another one this evening...

the information is all over the place, and Tokyo/Kanagawa is in chaos because most of the trains aren't running.

My kids went to school as usual this morning though (they can walk there), and I am now at work...I drive, so as long as there is petrol, I can get to work...

they say the rolling blackouts might carry on for a few weeks...

TanteRose · 14/03/2011 02:03

"destroy them" OMG, really? erm, good?

will check the news sites...

sakura · 14/03/2011 02:17

morning tanterose Smile Gosh you are really in the thick of it up there. At least your kids are able to have a semblance of routine.
Now I've got this fever I'm so dependant on hot drinks and heating and I just can't imagine not having access to electric right now.
We've got a spare room, I wonder if we can put someone up.

TanteRose · 14/03/2011 02:22

hope you feel better soon, sakura Smile

thanks for your thoughts and prayers Smile

slim22 · 14/03/2011 03:59

Ladies just wanted to add my thoughts and prayers. At dh's company essential staff are flying out from tokyo to hk as their systems are not reliable for trading. Its a BIG company so quite worrying that they have so much disruption...... It seems like its a major disruption in business but everybody is very determined to keep things going.

Pennybubbly · 14/03/2011 04:25

I am in Tokyo going through hell.
Is anyone else here with me?

TanteRose · 14/03/2011 04:27

hi Penny, I am on the coast in Zushi, near Kamakura
ARe you OK?

Pennybubbly · 14/03/2011 04:30

Have just posted back to you on other thread!
How are you doing?

TanteRose · 14/03/2011 04:34

Hi Penny Smile

doing OK - just...

the Tokyo Electric Power company TEPCO site is going into overload at the mo, so info is hard to find. We are due for a blackout later today, but not sure when.

I think everyone is as confused as us!

we have stocked up on some food, and my DH has just ordered some food/rice from Amazon. WOuld that be a possibility for you?

Sigh, its all a bit exhausting...

Pennybubbly · 14/03/2011 04:40

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