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Living overseas

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Where is the best place in the world to bring up Children

51 replies

slipperandpjsmum · 07/02/2011 18:49

Lots of MN on here from all over the world past and present. From your experiences around the globe where on earth has the most to offer children?

OP posts:
Portofino · 11/02/2011 10:29

I love Belgium - it is fantastically family friendly. Both parents have the right to take parental leave until each child turns 12. The school system offers cheap wrap round care (7.30 - 6pm) from age 2.5. Educational standards are generally high.

Holidays are covered by commune run clubs - half term will cost me 20 euros - or there are privately organised activities eg sport, dancing, circus skills etc. Sporting facilities are cheap and numerous and there are lots of parks and cycle paths. Added to that there is wealth of things to do - the coast and the lovely countryside in the Ardennes is easy to reach.

cestlavie · 11/02/2011 10:35

I've not lived there since I had children but Geneva would be a wonderful place I imagine. Beautiful, clean, safe, good public transport, a huge lake with beaches, lots of kids around, good schools. France on one doorstep, Italy on the other, not to mention skiing only 90 minutes drive away in the winter. Course it costs a million pounds a second to live there but hey, if you're living there hopefully you're on an expat package!

StataLover · 12/02/2011 18:48

I'd also say Singapore would be a fantastic place Lived there pre-children for a couple of years and LOVED it! Often daydreamed about going back but hasn't worked out work-wise (I did apply for a job there at some point!).

I've lived in a few countries with children - but not sure any of them are the best places to have children. We've had a good time though!

ecobatty · 12/02/2011 18:55

I would say Spain, based on what I've seen, but then again for me the sunshine is very important (I think children should be outside most of the year).

My problem with places like Geneva, Singapore, etc which sound great when you have toddlers is that everyone I know who lived there as teenagers hated it - they can be a bit claustrophobic for teens.

agnethafaltskog · 12/02/2011 19:00

England.

Zombieladymum · 12/02/2011 21:22

I've been living in Berlin for 4 years and gave birth to DS in May last year and have to say that Germany is an excellent choice of place to bring up LOs.

As a taxpayer and EU citizen I was entitled to 1 year maternity leave on 67% of my average salary from the previous 12 months, 187 EUR child benefit, and excellent healthcare all through my pregnancy and of course beyond.

Childcare is also very good and though my LO's not at the going to school stage yet, I understand that there are several bilingual state schools (so no need to pay for expensive private education!)

Quite apart from that, the lifestyle here's very outdoorsy (in the Summer) and there are SO many facilities for children- playgrounds everywhere, play-cafes for the winter months, kids' theatres etc etc. As a young woman, I've always felt safe here and I feel that the Germans allow kids to be kids a lot more than we do in the UK with all our paranoia. Ok, so we have no jungle or ocean but the Ostsee isn't far away and there are lots of lovely lakes and forests just a short tram ride from the city centre. I don't think I'll be hurrying back to the UK anytime soon!

StataLover · 12/02/2011 21:29

That's interesting eco. I was in Singapore in my early twenties and i thought it was great. I thought (expat at least) teens had loads of freedom there because it was so safe and very very few drugs.

I've only visited Berlin zombie but I was impressed at how child-friendly it was.

blueshoes · 12/02/2011 22:25

I grew up in Singapore. I am in fact Singaporean.

Now lived in the UK for the last decade with young dcs, I see both sides. Pros and Cons.

I agree with most of the advantages listed.

Cons: Sweltering weather means children don't do as much outdoors sports. The lack of change in the seasons makes it quite samey and after a while, stifling. I only realised after I left what a bubble living in Singapore is. The main problem is it is a goldfish bowl. Everybody seems to be on the same track - so anyone who is not the norm (that includes 'foreigners') tends to be viewed with suspicion. There is little deviation from the 'received wisdom' that is imparted to you on high. Media is tightly controlled as is political opposition.

The education system is good at bringing a large number of children to a decent standard. But it does not cater particularly well for the extremely bright or the opposite end. In fact, it is non-conducive to quirks or creativity.

Tootsie, do you have children in the local schools? How are they fitting in?

tootsieroll · 13/02/2011 16:38

Blueshoes: My DC are in a local kindergarten, and thriving. They've been entertaining us with Chinese New Year songs :) They look forward to going to school everyday. DD is younger, but DS is doing things like gymnastics and music, all through the school, without me having to bring him to separate classes, something which I would have to do in the UK.

Regarding the politics of Singapore - I think people tend to forget how young the country actually is, and for essentially an immigrant nation without any natural resources to get to where it is today requires bold leadership. One can argue till the cows come home about the leadership, but noone can deny the fact that the Singapore of today is modern, clean, efficient, safe with politicians that are by and large uncorrupt and scandal free (they all seem pretty geek and nerd-like to me, not that it's a bad thing!). With every evolving society, there is the question of identity. Britain, with its long history, seems to have lost its identity these days, and Singapore is desperately trying to forge one. To be honest, if the questionable political system is resulting in an environment where my children can grow up without worrying about the threat of drugs, violence, underage sex and alcohol abuse, riots and anarchy; if my children can grow up in an environment where academic and entrepeneurial ambition is encouraged, respect for the family and elders is the norm, then I'm all for this very questionable political system.

Outdoors - my children play outdoors all the time. They do football on Saturdays, and don't seem to mind being drenched in sweat - their soccer school consists of lots of expat and local children, which is fab to watch. The weather, I feel, is something which only the adults have complained about, probably because they aren't doing very much while watching the children have a wonderful time :) Nature is limited in Singapore, but the reservoirs have served us really well - the children love the monkeys and other wildlife that they see whenever we go for walks.

Education - If I'm not wrong, Singapore, for its population, generates a good proportion of students going into Oxbridge and Ivy League universities. This is not limited to the local schools. The person at Tanglin School said there were 3 going to Oxbridge this year, so the International school can't be that bad :) I think quirk and creativity are accepted in Singapore - ingenuity is highly encouraged (DS will tell you all about it - he lives at the Science Centre!). We frequently go to theatre for the children, ranging from local productions to 'foreign' ones (just had Walking with Dinosaurs and The Gruffalo/Gruffalo's Child).

mamalovesmojitos · 13/02/2011 16:46

Interesting thread. I was offered a job teaching in singapore recently. Am a single parent though, would be going with just dd and wouldn't be able to afford her school fees on my salary.

Alouiseg · 13/02/2011 16:53

Interesting about Singapore, dh is convinced he's going to end up there or Hong Kong.

Gonzo33 · 17/02/2011 08:31

From experience Germany is a fabulous place to live, and bring your children up. However I have been talking to a friend of mine about immigrating to Canada when my husband eventually leaves his current job (Army). I do enjoy her part of the world and she has said that she wishes she had made the move when her son was younger due to the education, health care and much better way of life.

snowcake · 20/02/2011 08:52

I would second blueshoes re Singers. I highly doubt state edu in Singapore is nourishing children as whole beings, it doesn't see them as individuals. It does not encourage children to think on their feet, to develop emotional intelligence and creativity. You just end up with clones who are all great at maths but cannot think out of the box.

Typical conversation I've had: "Do you have green iced tea?"
Singaporean: "No."
Me: "Do you have ice?" Answer: "Yes."
Me: "Do you have green tea?" Answer: "Yes."
Well...

I mean it's not that hard... Hmm The tunnel vision Singaporeans exhibit drove me mad and I have family there and lived there 3 times in my teens and twenties.

I also hate the climate, though I do miss the greenery and the food. Oh my God, the food is amazing!!!

I have lived in Hong Kong, Denmark, US, currently in the UAE and all I can say that the Middle East is the worst of everything.

I am continental European and though I find my country boring and its people predictable and stiff at least the healthcare, education, food and general well-being of the state and its inhabitants is comforting and no doubt a great place to bring up kids.

seeker · 20/02/2011 08:53

My house!

hogsback · 20/02/2011 09:12

Germany (Munich in particular), Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, bits of France. Anywhere with a great outdoor lifestyle, preferably with skiing on the doorstep - just got back from annual pilgrimage to the Alps and can't stop thinking how much I would love to live there year round.

mummytime · 20/02/2011 09:21

mamalovesmojitos if it is a private school they should probably offer school fees as part of the package. Have you registered with the international schools review? I would suggest you look into it for the warts and all view on your school (personally I would if we we're relocating overseas/using and international school).

mamalovesmojitos · 20/02/2011 20:20

Thank you for that mummytime, i have not registered but will look it up now! Smile

begonyabampot · 22/02/2011 00:31

Singapore has some great points but it can drive you a bit mad after a while which is why people feel they regularly have to get off the island. The non stop construction, very little natural beauty (not Singapore's fault, it does the best it can), everything so crowded and the national past time seems to be shopping at the mall where it's air conned. It's just so small! The weather can be just too much - people just avoid the sun as much as they can - the locals do anyway and for a reason. Evenings and early evenings can be lovely and great family time and agree about the feeling of safety (though had to intervene in the odd violent situation) and the multiculturalism (though there is a lot of racism).

as for a 'questionable political system' - Singapore is lucky that those that rule (doesn't seem that democratic) seem to be unusual in that corruption seems minimal so they are working for what they see as the greater good - even if many view it as little more than a form of dictatorship but hard to know what's really going on with the level of censorship and propaganda. Doesn't the state control the main newspaper, media, TV etc. Also have rules o something like a gathering (demonstration etc) of more than about 4 people is illegal. It also has one of the highest death penalty rates in the world and isn't quite open about the statistics.

It's treatment of foreign workers( the poorer ones from the Philipines, Bangladesh, Indonesia etc) is a whole different topic - worthy of its own thread.

Don't get me wrong I like Singapore and will probably be moving back there this year and an sure I'll be quite happy but as so many positives have been listed , just trying to even up the balance. Now back in the UK, I love the beautiful countryside and stunning mountains, breathtaking coastline. The vibrant cities, the amazing towns and villages. I love being able to take my kids out all day for picnics and not having to worry about the heat, ants etc. I love the fact they get dirty and muddy, can climb trees and build dens - don't think I ever saw a muddy child in Singapore, it doesn't really do mud.

Lollypolly · 24/02/2011 06:41

Ah you never saw my kids come in from an afternoon playing in the garden during a warm tropical downpour then!

begonyabampot · 24/02/2011 10:22

True, we did get bogged down at Turf city during the rain - the flip flops had to go and barefeet were required - lovely! Most Singaporeans seem to be allergic to mud.

Kiwinyc · 24/02/2011 17:07

New Zealand. But expect your kids to leave after university for several years.

nooka · 27/02/2011 05:53

I think that my children are having a fairly happy life here in Canada. We certainly live in a very beautiful part of the world, and they have a lot more freedom than they did in either London or New York.

I think that whether or not you have a happy childhood has fairly little to do with where you live though. I suspect parental wealth is the biggest factor. For example Vancouver regularly tops the poll of best city to live in, and it is a nice place. But very expensive. If you are a family with plenty, then enjoying everything a place has to offer is rather easier than if you are struggling.

lavenderbongo · 27/02/2011 07:23

New Zealand - good schools, great access to beautiful countryside, safer environment, more freedom.... I could go on.

We lived in Belgium for a while. It OK but we didnt speak french which is a huge disadvantage. They start schools way to young and the traffic is pants!

slim22 · 03/03/2011 09:28

The thing is life is very different as a local and in an expat enclave or even with minimum expat standards.

So what is the criteria?

Am surprised you say Singapore is a "surprise" new entry. It tops all the charts for best standard of living.

Actually I would definitely say that comparatively to many expat heavens, if you were to live as local, you would probably be better off in Singapore than anywhere else in the "developed" or "civilised" world.

Only problem in Singapore is that its so dull that come teenage years, its no good. Kids have no "alternative" views to stimulate their forming minds. They are not street wise, they are too sheltered and many many get up to no good just because they are too ignorant to know any better. They test boundaries and yet have no opportunity to learn from it.
That's why so many locals and expats alike farm them out to boarding schools.

darleneconnor · 03/03/2011 09:55

Scotland

Pros-

-some of the best scenery in the world
-very friendly people
-English speaking
-no extremes of weather/threat of natural disasters
-excellent education system
-cheap private schools
-more left-wing politically eg free social care, free uni, smaller class sizes, cheaper prescriptions
-no BNP, much less racism
-part of the EU (working rights etc)
-easy to travel to Europe/America
-affordable house prices
-more equal representation of women in parliament
-lots of culture/history
-lots to do in cities, with easy access to wilderness
-world-class unis
-amazing architechture
-fab shopping
-very green countryside
-skiing
-no horrible infectious diseases/dangerous beasties

Cons

-the rain
-temptation to have an unhealthy diet
-poverty in places

I think it balances very much in favour.

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