One more moving to Brussels :)

[ShutterNutter]

Hi everyone! Found this site a few days ago and I see that some of you live in Belgium :-)

My husband has been transferred to Brussels for 3 years, which is great and we are looking to move early next year. We have 2 little girls 5 & 6 .
We have been in Brussels for 8 days now school & house hunting. I tell you it has not been easy. We just can't decide were to live. After looking at quite a few houses we have come down to two.

The first house we are deciding on is in Ixelles near all the shops, it has no garden (not even a little patch) and no parking which is a bit of a pain driving round and round trying to find one after a long day of work. On the plus side the house is near Tenbosch Park and another big play ground that I can easily walk the girls to, also all the restaurants and shops.

House number 2 is in Watermal-Boitsfort, it is bigger and newly renovated, plenty of parking but the nearest shop (which is 2 supermarkets) is 1.5km away. Not crazy far, but far enough not to make the area very exciting or have anything fun to walk to.
One of the things that appeal to me coming to Europe is the fact that you don't have to get into your car just to get milk. I really enjoy walking and was looking forward to be able to walk to the corner store to get milk or whatever. Also living in a quaint, pretty european style street is very appealing.
DH understandably wants it to be an easy commute to work (Auderghem) and back and to the girl's school (we are deciding between BEPS and ISB) and the Watermal house would certainly provide that. It also has a garden for the girls. The downside is that this house is just surrounded by big offices and buildings and some embassies.

So, after all that rambling ... having lived in Brussels for a while, would you go for the more lively location and walkable locations, but smaller house and no garden, or the bigger house with a garden but not very exciting surroundings but closer to work and schools?

I probably won't have car for the first 6 moths or so but will probably get one later. DH will have car and will be traveling quite a bit with his job. I'll be a stay-at-home mom.

Thanks for any input!!

Signed, indecisive Crazy Rambler ;-)

Le Chat Botté at De Haan, 1 week for ?390, mix of language and multisports
here

De Pauw at various locations, 1 week from ?450, French lessons with lots of different choices of sports
here

Some Belgian health insurance companies give discounts on these type of holidays. For example our "mutuelle" gives ?10 euro reduction for each day, but other mutuelles are more generous.

italianmom, all three of my dcs found the tests stressful and I can't honestly say any of them actually enjoyed school in the Belgian system. I guess it just depends on your child/ren and also the approach of the school. I'm hoping that the CEB will be less stressful for my dd than the Paradis tests would have been because they were much harder (I've seen the past papers and I remember what my ds's had to do in sixth year primary).

The thing I find most difficult about the Belgian system is the lack of anything really creative. And this gets worse as you move through the system. They find time on the timetable for Latin and Greek but not for, for example, music or art, design or drama. Not that I'm saying these are for everyone but I think it's great to have the option. I'm sure there are more of these available in the technical schools but then the academic level drops. DS2 finished his education in the British School studying design and technology with physics and maths (oh and French but we don't really count that!). That's a combination not possible in the Belgian system as in a school where DT is possible, the maths and physics levels will be lower than in the "academic" schools.

Still, I'm not sure I'd recommend going through the British School route as it's very expensive and we're now having to pay for him to live in England for university. European students can get a loan for the fees but not living expenses. So there goes our pension!

Italianmum, I have three boys (ages 4, 7 and 11)who started at the local school this year. I'm happy to share our experiences,. just wondering if you would like to hear about a certain age group?

Thanks Frazzlenz, it would be interesting to know how was the experience for your 11 years old since that was definitely the more difficult age.

LongtimeinBrussels, I definitely agree with you that it would be better if it was possible to choose a more diversified curriculum.

This is the dilemma that I can see myself facing with school choices. I can relate to your comments, LongtimeinBrussels, as my oldest wants to do Product Design (of course, given that he's only 12 that could well change over the next few years).

How do any of us find the time to work, with all this on our plates, I wonder.

Catalyst, DS1 had friends who went to uni to do product design so either they took DT, chemistry and erm not sure what other A level(s) or they did the IB where DT is sometimes possible. An option would be to move them into an international school for the last two years of their education. I realise that this isn't an option for everyone as it's very expensive (my dh is self-employed and I do mainly volunteer work so we had to use our pension savings - something, I realise, many people will think we're mad for doing) and it would most probably mean private lessons in English to get their English up to speed but it is a possibility. I don't know enough about universities here to be able to say where you would do it here.

Here's a site that might be interesting for those moving here (or even those here for a while).

Natation

I have just read through this thread again. There's a lot of detailed information here about the ins and outs of this system.

Can you clarify that my oldest would only be able to get into 2nd year secondaire without French in BICS and/or Le Verseau?

Do you know what level of French he would need to get in? Or, in your view, is it unlikely that he would be accepted?

Hi there Calalyst

your eldest would be able to get into a local French community funded French secondary (including Le Verseau which is also french community funded but because it partially opts out of the French community curriculum, basically substituting English for Dutch as the second language, it receives less funding and therefore you pay a bit of fees, I think around 5k per year). You may not find it that easy finding a place in 2e secondaire, firstly because the oversubscribed schools will be full and secondly because of the lack of French, but it is possible.

Your eldest could also go to BICS in 2e secondaire. BICS is completely private, the children sit exams which are examined by an external board called the Jury de la Communauté Francaise. I know little about this system but it's there to enable access to qualifications of the French system when you are not being schooled in it. To transfer out of BICS to a local French school is fine if these Jury exams are passed in 2e and 4e secondaire. If you transfer from BICS to a local secondaire any time in secondaire without these exams, a French community school can deem a child not having done any of a particular cycle, eg transfer at the end of 1e secondaire and the child can be deemed to have to start again in 1e secondaire, transfer at the end of 2e secondaire without passing the Jury exam, the children again can be deemed as to have to start 1e and 2e secondaire again. This information comes from the deputy head of le Verseau. Transfer from an international school or from abroad to a local French school and, dependent on your school reports, you should normally be placed in the appropriate year.

If you moved in September 2012, it's your younger son which would in fact be more problematic. He'd be in 6e primaire in a local school, but in 1st secondary in an international school. You could put him in a local school, if he passes the CEB then yippeee. If he doesn't make it, then either he repeats 6e primaire or he goes to 1ere secondaire in a local school into a special class and has to retake the CEB, hopefully passing it at the second attempt, then he'd enter 1ere secondaire mainstream, maybe even 2e secondaire if the school allows it. Most of these special classes are full or children of lower academic ability, if you look at stats on CEB failures, in fact most children fail on the Maths, your son is probably going to have more difficulty passing the French and Social Science / Science part. Anyway, there ARE some schools such as Décroly which do have higher academic across the whole of the school. Le Verseau made the suggestion to another child recently that to avoid the problems with CEB, they could opt for one year at 1st secondary at an international school and then enter the local system in 1ere secondaire without this obligation to pass the CEB and on previous school reports.

I bet you are even more confused than before.....

Just to clarify, Décroly has 4 or 5 mainstream 1ere seondaire classes and 1 class for those who do not get CEB. That's how other schools which offer non CEB class in 1ere secondaire operate too. A few of the more over subscribed secondaires for mainstream 1ere secondaire in Brussels offering also the non CEB classes are :

Sacré Coeur de Lindhout in Woluwe St Lambert, College Roi Baudouin in Schaerbeek, Athénée Royal in Auderghem, Notre Dame des Champs in Uccle, Athénée Charles Janssens, St Adrien and Centre Scolaire Ma Campagne in Ixelles, as well as Ecole Décroly in Uccle.

Natation

Thanks, this is very clear and very helpful. I wasn't as clear in my own post - what I was really asking was this: In order for them to be considered alongside other French-speaking kids, do the schools require evidence that they have reached a certain level of French? I imagine they do. Does anyone know what this is (e.g. Proficiency or Pre-Advanced)? No doubt they have their own assessment standards.

I could then explore the feasibility of getting them up to this level, or at least work towards it, over the next year.

This would then allow me to keep my options wider. At the moment, I am exploring Le Verseau and Decroly. I am not inclined towards BICS, nor the other lower-level schools you mention that offer non-CEB classes in first year. Ideally, I would not want to have to change their schools after the first year.

At the moment, the oldest is in a Jesuit college. So, the other option I would like to have is an local academic catholic school e.g. in the Uccle area. How realistic is this? If it's a complete non-runner, I will rule it out and narrow my focus.

(This is very one-sided as I can not offer anyone any help - when I move next year, I shall return all favours )

There are lots of local academic catholic schools in Brussels and therefore there are definitely some in Uccle. However, I guess you will run into the same problems as mentioned earlier on the thread. I'm a bit confused as to who's asked what now so I'm sorry I can't be more specific. Hopefully natation will be along soon!

Also, another alternative Décroly-like school is Plein Air in Uccle. Comes highly recommended by the mum I gave you the e-mail address of as her dcs went there in maternelle and primary.

Hi folks

Have decided to fast-forward our plans and move this year. Based on all the info to hand, it will be much easier to get the kids into schools this year - the oldest going into 1st year secondaire and the second going into primaire 6. As a result, I am coming over for the Ecole Decroly open day on Saturday.

Your support has been invaluable in getting me to this point - so I am raising a glass to you now, thank God for some good old-fashioned sociality!

Cheers

Hi there Catalyst
you said your younger son has just turned 10. Was her born in 2000 or 2001? I'd sort of assumed he was born in 2001. If he is indeed born in 2001, he'd only be going into 5e primaire in September. But if he is born in 2000, he'd be going into 6e primaire. HOWEVER as you said he'd only just turned 10, if he's born in 2000, his birthday is near the end of the year right? Doubling or holding back a child born at the end of the year is extremely common here. Rightly or wrongly roughly 50% of children in the French system have doubled at least one year by the time they reach the last year of secondaire. If you held back a child born at the end of the year who speaks no French in order to be in 5e primaire instead of 6e primaire in September, it means that child completes the whole 5/6 cycle and the curriculum which goes with it, culminating in the CEB, also it gives the child an extra year to get up to speed in French.

Have you sent Décroly an email? If you haven't, it might be worth it, you might be able to get a bit more "personal treatment". Plus if Décroly end up as your first choice secondaire for the eldest, they could be ready to give you the application form. A contact at another school emailed me today, she was told by the head of another secondaire that in fact a "late" application from abroad actually favours those applicants, that schools have to hold back a few places specifically for those comming from abroad, without the hassle of completing the standard form and choosing 10 schools. Worth checking this info with Décroly?

Hi natation

Yes, younger son was born on 02/01/2001, so you're right (my error), he'll be going into 5e primaire, which will give him a great start and mean he'll be comfortable when it comes to the CEB. The oldest will be repeating 1st year secondary (born in April 1999).

Decroly is now my first choice quite definitely, as I believe that total immersion will be better for them; also, I love the method, and the location fits the bill too.

Your information here is very valuable, thanks. I now have a couple of questions I need help with:

• do I apply for a 'general' place for the oldest, or do I apply for a place in the 'non-CEB' class?
• in your opinion, would it be better to seek clarification on this issue you raise in your last paragraph in the email beforehand, or wait and discuss it face to face when I am there?
• is the telephone application system for both or just for primary? How does that work?

Much appreciated.

sorry Catalyst, that we didn't manage to catch up this week. I will be home tomorrow morning for sure :)

Hi Catalyst

Your eldest may be repeating first year secondary because of the system he's currently in but he won't exactly be repeating first year secondary as they don't go up to secondary until they are 12 here (unless their birthdays are between 1 September and 31 December, in which case they are still 11). Those going into 1st secondary in September are (generally speaking though there are some who have either skipped a year or doubled) are those born in 1999. My dd is June 1999 and she'll be going up in September too! The level of work she is required to do in sixth year primary is generally ahead of what my nephew is doing in first year primary in England!

There are times in my life when my faith in humankind is restored and this experience on this chat forum is one of them - you have all been so wonderfully generous to me, thank you.

Frazzlenz, that's great, I will try again in the morning, probably about 9am my time.

LongtimeinBrussels, yes, I'd forgotten about that. Is your DD in Decroly? Without reading back through the thread, I've lost track ..

Off to make Sheppard's Pie now ..(the joys ..)

Unfortunately not as I think that system would have suited her. I didn't know about it at the time ds1 first went to school and without access to a car/a new baby to drag round on the public transport, I took the easy option. I got a car when dd was a baby but the ds's were then already in two different schools (one in secondary, one in primary) so I didn't fancy going to three different schools. With hindsight... (Oh if I only had a Euro for every time I've said that since becoming a mum!)

I've put a link to this thread on the Local page, as there is so much fab information here. When I find some spare time, I will put all the links on there. Will be useful to build our own little data base. Contact details and comments......

Portofino

I have copied and pasted this thread into a word doc as it is so packed with good info.

Eh, the 'Local page' - where's that??

If you look at the very top of the page where "My Mumsnet" and everything is, it says Local. If you go there for the first time, it asks you what Local site you want to join. So we have a Brussels page where we can put info about forthcoming events, meetups and enter details about local services. There is not much on there at the mo, but I have made a start! Anyone can add stuff to it.

Got it thanks

Getting geared up for trip over at the weekend. As usual, now find I've got a million and one things to do ..throw in a family crisis or two .. - isn't life such fun (gggrrr ..)

I will be making my application on Monday morning after 08.30 by telephone for DS2 who will be going into 5eme primaire (as I understand it, the application for DS1 for 1st year secondaire will be later, in March). Got a couple more questions about applying at Decroly if anyone can help -
I was wondering what documents etc I might need. On the website it says "Une composition de ménage" and "photocopie de la carte SIS de l?enfant". These translate as "domestic composition" and "photocopy of the card LOCATED of the child" but IN PLAIN ENGLISH???

My DP is working on Monday morning and therefore not able to make the call to the school. I will be at the airport (I didn't spot this bit in time, before I had booked flights) and anyway, my French is not good enough.

I have a big favour to ask - is there anyone who could help me out in making this call? If not, I will make arrangements anyway, so not to worry - everyone's got their own stuff, however, thought it was worth asking.

Thanks