One more moving to Brussels :)

[ShutterNutter]

Hi everyone! Found this site a few days ago and I see that some of you live in Belgium :-)

My husband has been transferred to Brussels for 3 years, which is great and we are looking to move early next year. We have 2 little girls 5 & 6 .
We have been in Brussels for 8 days now school & house hunting. I tell you it has not been easy. We just can't decide were to live. After looking at quite a few houses we have come down to two.

The first house we are deciding on is in Ixelles near all the shops, it has no garden (not even a little patch) and no parking which is a bit of a pain driving round and round trying to find one after a long day of work. On the plus side the house is near Tenbosch Park and another big play ground that I can easily walk the girls to, also all the restaurants and shops.

House number 2 is in Watermal-Boitsfort, it is bigger and newly renovated, plenty of parking but the nearest shop (which is 2 supermarkets) is 1.5km away. Not crazy far, but far enough not to make the area very exciting or have anything fun to walk to.
One of the things that appeal to me coming to Europe is the fact that you don't have to get into your car just to get milk. I really enjoy walking and was looking forward to be able to walk to the corner store to get milk or whatever. Also living in a quaint, pretty european style street is very appealing.
DH understandably wants it to be an easy commute to work (Auderghem) and back and to the girl's school (we are deciding between BEPS and ISB) and the Watermal house would certainly provide that. It also has a garden for the girls. The downside is that this house is just surrounded by big offices and buildings and some embassies.

So, after all that rambling ... having lived in Brussels for a while, would you go for the more lively location and walkable locations, but smaller house and no garden, or the bigger house with a garden but not very exciting surroundings but closer to work and schools?

I probably won't have car for the first 6 moths or so but will probably get one later. DH will have car and will be traveling quite a bit with his job. I'll be a stay-at-home mom.

Thanks for any input!!

Signed, indecisive Crazy Rambler ;-)

[Catalyst]

Hi all. Yes, there's a lot to factor in. I am excited by these 'methods' schools as their approach fits with my own thinking/values about learning and human development. However, the truth is that I'm not a country or small-town dweller and am drawn to the city, or at least, suburbs. If only Le Verseau was nearer the city (damn)! If I had my choice (at this point in time) I would choose Ecole Decroly because it ticks the school and the location boxes. However, it looks as if that would be very hard to get into. Does it matter to them how bright your child is? My oldest is scoring A-plus across the whole curriculum from physics to music (family joke - I ate a lot of fish when I was pregnant!)

Yes, I think the issue about the youngest is that the CEB would be hard to get through in just one year, and therefore a high-risk approach, and I agree.

I could just put them into local schools .. and I won't rule it out either but now that I have discovered Decroly, I am inspired to find out more.

I may have to move earlier than I thought in order to be resident in a commune; something else to look into.

There's a mine of information and insights here, thanks to you all. I will come back to you later .. domesticity beckons ...

[natation]

Decroly are having open days on Friday 25th and Saturday 26th February. Enrolments for primaire for next year are by telephone only on Monday 28th February and it would not surprise me if every single spare place in primaire gets booked up within a couple of hours.
be.ecoledecroly.net/avis.htm

Remember Décroly has a class in premiere secondaire for those who do not get CEB. Here's the full list of schools in Brussels which have these classes. Most are not the most academic. A quick look down list and I can see a few schools which were oversubscribed last year for 1ere secondaire mainstreams classes for those with CEB, so they might be good choices. College Roi Baudouin in Schaerbeek, Athénée Royal in Auderghem, Notre Dame des Champs in Uccle, Athénée Charles Janssens, St Adrien and CS Ma Campagne in Ixelles, as well as Ecole Décroly.

here


If you were to move a year early, your elder son would be going into 1ere secondaire. If you were wishing for him to go to a local school, you still have to use the same enrolment form as those children living in Belgium. From info received from parents in similar circumstances, you have to ask your first preference school for the application form. As your child cannot pick up points under the points system they use to order applications, as the point are based on distances between French school attended and secondary and also home, you get given the average points for all those children who apply to that school. For example, a school has 200 non priority places in 1ere secondaire receives 500 first preference applications, your child gets placed at 250 on the list, therefore will be 50th on waiting list, a school with 200 non priority places gets 300 first preference applications, your child gets placed at 150 and therefore gets a place. Sorry, hope you understand, it is rather complicated. The final hurdle is that the French ministry has to accept in conjunciton with the school that your child is able to attend 1ere secondaire without any French, apparently based on the last 3 reports from whichever school your child is currently attending. Enrolments for 1ere secondaire commence 14th March until 1st April, the application form goes back to the first preference school, you hand with it a sealed envelope with up to 9 other choices of secondaires.

www.inscription.cfwb.be/index.php?id=300

No it does not matter how clever your child is, it used to be the case under the French system, it meant schools could pick and choose and I bet that the children from poorer areas were discriminated against. Now the secondaries have no right to ask for primary school reports (except when arrving from abroad). But there are still very academic schools and less academic ones and it's up to parents to choose an appropriate school. If you choose a school which is too academic for your child, there's a risk they will fail their years and be "asked" to leave. I chose an academic school for our child but not the most academic one in our area, I followed the advice of the head and the class teacher.

For choosing schools, every school must have a "projet d'établissement" and "projet pédagogique et éducatif". I find these documents incredibly boring to read, but if your school's ones are like other schools, in fact it is spot on in describing the "ethos" and "values" of a school and how children are evaluated and how the school communicates with the parents.

Theoretically you are supposed to submit your "compostion de ménage", that's the family document you get when you register at the local town hall showing who is in the family, but in practise, all but the most difficult school would waive that document for new arrivals. We visited schools in the September before moving and enrolled then with only a photocopy of passports, took the children around all the schools we had visited a few months earlier during the Easter holidays and still preferred the school we enrolled in, we finally submitted our "composition de ménage" and a copy of the health insurance cards called "cartes sis" to the school in the September when the children started. Know plenty of families who have also enrolled without any proof of residency, in some parts of Brussels, registration is apparently a nightmare lasting months, they can't expect children ot sit at home whilst bureaucracy is at a standstill. We are lucky, at least in our commune it only takes 2 visits about a month apart to register and get residents cards.

Finally, yes the CEB would be hard to get t

[natation]

sorry pressed send to early. Yes CEB would be hard BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE after a year in French school. If you have a plan B, it helps! It might mean doubling again 6e primaire, or accepting a place without CEB in one of the secondaires with the special classes in premiere secondaire - for that option, the children re-take the CEB at secondaire then if they pass, move back into the mainstream classes. I wish you all the luck.

[Duffel]

italianmum - look at the website that explains the exams and certificates It's all set and marked outside of the schools. The end of secondary exams is recognised for university entry/whatever in other countries. Just like the bac & other exams taken in other countries/international schools after secondary studies.
The ceb end of primary school exam is also set & marked outside of the school by the education authority for the french speaking belgium region. Look at the link posted before with the past papers for what is asked of the kids.

[Duffel]

Don't know if this school has been mentioned BICS It's in the city in the etterbeek neighbourhood so good transport links & in english & french. It is religious but catholic faith schools are popular in Belgium. Website is in both languages and explains the education system and exams very well. Costs about 6000 euro a year with cost of uniform (a rare thing in Belgium) and school books/materials as usual.

[Duffel]

Forgot to mention it is an academic school with most pupils getting top grade passes in their state exams ceb & end of secondary

[natation]

The downside to BICS is that the curriculum is NOT recognised by the French or Flemish communities, it may also be the case with the maternelle/primaire only Ecole Acacia in Etterbeek too which is now doing French/English bilingual classes (so far up to 1ere primaire). The CEB at BICS has to be assessed by the Jury Central - don't know much about that other than it's the way to have a Belgian qualification outside a recognised Belgian school. Anyway, if you do not pass CEB at the end of 6e at BICS, you cannot go into 1ere secondaire at any local French school, that includes Le Verseau and Décroly or any others, including those which do classes for those who do not have CEB. The reason you cannot transfer to a local French secondaire is because none of the curriculum at BICS is recognised, you will be deemed to have failed not only CEB and therefore 6e but also 5e too, you could only transfer to a local primaire and re-start 5e primaire. This info comes from Le Verseau by the way, don't doubt the accuracy of it at all. You CAN transfer from International Montessori or BSB or ISB where you would not have done CEB to a local French secondaire, because these international schools have curriculums recognised by the French community. It's a tricky situtation. Easy to transfer into BICS from a local school, not so easy to transfer out if you don't pass the external exams, with the risk of having to drop 2 years. Of course, none of this is really of consequence for children "passing through" Belgium, but since you are thinking of a more permanent move, it is worth serious consideration.

For BICS, I wouldn't be put off totally by its quite obvious Catholicism. I think you really would need to see the school, perhaps more than once, before making a decision.

[Duffel]

bics has a 100% pass rate for the ceb & 100% pass rate for end of secondary.

Can't find Le Verseau's pass rates for the state exams on it's website?

[Catalyst]

I got similar info from Le Verseau on BICS. Also, the sense I have of BICS is not positive - sure, that's built on limited data to date, but it's my sense as I said - it appears to me to be extremely conservative, not to mention, stifling. I also don't like the way they split the week into two .. don't think that's a good approach. So, not a runner for me.

This is all very helpful dialogue; forcing me to question my assumptions and think outside the box (as good dialogues do ...)

[natation]

BICS is not obliged to enter children for the CEB or CE1D so you cannot compare a private Belgian school with a local French community funded school, mainstream ones, where all children are obliged to take the CEB.

Our children's school has 100% pass rate also at CEB but to me that means nothing and in no way proves our school is an academic one. I was more pleased to hear 87% was the average mark in French/Maths, over 10% more than the national average. In the end, it matters how clever your child is, not how clever the rest of the class is. It also matters how competent the teachers are and that is a virtually impossible thing to measure.

This is only hearsay from parents, former parents and parents who have visited BICS, some have absolutely detested it, some rave about it. All I could read into this is that it certainly suits some people and not others.

As for how BICS divides the school week, again only based on chidren I know at schools where they do 50/50 and schools where the 2 languages are mixed all day long, the 50/50 method appears to produce children with far more fluent French as a second language. Fantastic examples of 50/50 schools are EAB and EABJM in Paris, semi-public bilingual schools. What BICS certainly has in its favour at primaire and secondaire level is that there is a high percentage of native French AND English speakers, just like le Verseau. Other bilingual schools do not have such high percentages of mother tongue children, the knock-on effect is that it is harder to acquire French when hardly anyone speaks it mother tongue and not fluently.

[Duffel]

You have to choose a school you like. What suits some wont suit others. fwiw bics does get good results & you can go from bics to a local school no trouble. You just apply at a local school & the education authorities see you're coming from a non state school. Your child will be in the class for his/her year group & no surprise will be fine.

Find it odd that a 100% pass rate means nothing to you Natation. It is significant as it means all kids get to go onto main stream secondary

[frazzlenz]

I'll have to read through this thread closely this week as I still have to choose more school options for my eldest who is sitting CEB this year (after only 1 year in French schools).

Thanks for posting all that info Natation and for that link with old exams Duffel. I'll get his tutor to use those for practice before the exams.

Catalyst, if you are interested in hearing about our sons experience this year then feel free to drop me a message. He started at a local French speaking school last September in Year 6 (he turned 11 last August). He gets additional French language support through the school as well as a tutor twice a week that we arranged ourselves (she's a teacher at his school).

[LongtimeinBrussels]

I don't have the time to read through all the posts in depth so I'm not sure if this has already been posted or not. You'll find the past papers for the CEB exam here.

[LongtimeinBrussels]

Ah so I only needed to read the post above mine to see that it has indeed been posted by Duffy. Sorry!

Have read through a bit more now and I understand where natation is coming from Duffel re the 100% pass rate. The CEB is not known to be a difficult exam (unless of course you don't have the French needed to understand it) and therefore I would presume most of the schools talked about on this thread would aspire to a 100% pass rate.

This whole school thing is a real mine field. I also think because of the new system (ie schools can no longer cherry pick the best pupils) things will change so a school that has a high academic standard now (the new system hasn't been in place long enough to have changed that as yet) may not be able to maintain that standard. That remains to be seen.

Catalyst, I have a friend here whose children have gone through the Décroly system (not finished yet) so if you pm me I'm sure I could get some information for you or even ask her if she'd agree to me giving you her e-mail address.

[natation]

CEB has been compulsory for all French schools for only 3 years. The pass rate in 2010 was 94.9%. Imagine a school with 20 children in 6e, one is ill for one paper = fail, everyone else passes and the one ill child brings down the pass rate to 95%. The pass rate is so high, it's just not worth arguing over "our school got 100%" and "the school next door got only 95%". An average score is a better measurement, but still when the marks are so high, one child failing can make a significant dent in the average scores. This is why our child's score was far more important to us than what the other children in the class scored or even where they chose for secondary.

Academic is not always the most important reason for choosing a secondaire. We are fortunate in where we live and under the current system, our children could go to any number of "academic" secondaires, we live just close enough to get into St Michel or SC de Lindhout, Mater Dei, St Hubert etc. Finally we chose a school close to home with a strong pastoral system, one where academic standards have traditionally been high but not seen as St Michel league, where options in the higher years are varied, strong at Maths/Science and also Greek/Latin. It has so far been quite a positive experience, most encouraging is the fact that at the parents' evening, some teachers had no idea our child had only been in French for 2 years.

[Duffel]

Average results are a better guide on the level of the school but I'd ask on the whole pass rate as well. If not 100% I'd want to know why.

If a pupil misses an/all ceb exams with good reason they're not failed. Their school work/record helps the school authorities to give the ceb diploma.

[Duffel]

forgot to add in this! www.lesoir.be/actualite/belgique/2010-06-24/ceb-resultats-tres-positifs-778133.php

[Duffel]

easy explaination on the secondary school system

[Duffel]

expat education questions forum could be interesting asking on here.

[Duffel]

[LongtimeinBrussels]

So we've got the then!

[Pfaffingabout]

Sorry I've been absent for a bit, RL got a bit busy! Anyway, the link for the residential language courses is : //www.intaco.be. My friend was really happy with them - can't comment personally yet, but may use them this summer.

[Pfaffingabout]

Oh and I'd like to thank everyone for the really helpful links. I didn't even know that you could get CEB past papers. I've also saved the link to the list of diffencie secondary schools as I'm expecting that my dd will have problems when the time comes.

[italianmom]

Thank you so much for all the links. I guess I am having a hard time understanding the need for all these tests.
How stressful is it for the children?
I would love to hear from frazzlenz since your child is going through it after such a short time.
I just really would like to know how stressful it is for the children. Do they hate school because of it?
I know I am probably very paranoid. I just want my kids to be happy in school.

[natation]

Our children don't find the tests at all stressful, with the exception of the CEB. I think our child's 6e primaire found it more stressful not being completetly sure if our child would perform well enough on the day, but she didn't tell me how worried she was until after the results came out, I gave her a rather generous present as a thanks for her efforts. When we arrived in Belgium, I think we had the advantage of not knowing a thing about the CEB, so the ignorance was bliss. The stress with CEB was still loads less than that involved in taking UK tests. Our children there went through KS1 and KS2 testing and the eldest spent 2 years preparing for the 11 + to get into the local grammar school - now that really was incredibly difficult. The head teacher was very naughty our our eldest's school, he told us 2 weeks before the official results came out that our child had passed, but I still found the waiting to see if he was really right quite agonising.