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LGBT parents

This board is primarily for those whose children have LGBTQ+ parents to share their personal experiences and advice.

we're pregnant! ... the reactions

30 replies

temm09 · 16/02/2010 09:42

I am thrilled to be 15 weeks pregnant with our first (after an MC last year)

DP and I have been together for 11 years. We spent a long time deliberating about children and decided to go for a known donor, since we feel it is important that our child knows its father, and since we have the perfect man for the job. We have been friends with KD and his partner for nearly 9 years (and they have been together as long as we have) and this is something we discussed and joked about pretty much since we met. The boys will be involved in the child's life and KD will be known as Daddy, but DP and I will bring the child up and will be responsible for all decisions and finances, etc.

Now that I am in the second trimester we are starting to share the news with people who didn't already know and of course encounter every type of reaction imaginable. That's fine, we were all prepared for all the questions and we all know how long it took us to get our heads around the idea so we expect other people to need time too. But today I'm just feeling pee'ed off about it all, sick of the questions, which quite frankly are very personal and inappropriate, and sick of listening to everyone else's concerns. I mean, we don't go speaking our minds to a heterosexual couple who announce that they are pregnant saying "how did you do it - what position worked for you?" or "but have you thought about this...?" or "oh but what will happen when you break up?" or "are you sure this is a good idea, I mean I had noticed that the two of you have a really rubbish relationship and this clearly seems like a band-aid baby" No, when a straight couple announce they are pregnant, everyone congratulates them and is very glad for them, whether sincere or not.

Having to endure all the questions and listen to the worries that well-meaning friends and families and aunties of friends, and next-door-neighbours of families have is starting to wear down my resolve and fill me with doubts that we are doing the right thing - sometimes I think what have we done?! We have had a lot of time to think and plan and draw up agreements about our situation, but of course we know that we are going to face challenges that we can't possibly imagine now, and there will be so many feelings to consider. We all agree that the child comes first, but that will not take away our individual feelings. I'm feeling worried that the boys are going to become more attached than we or they initially thought, and are going to want to be more involved than we agreed. I'm worried that DP and I are going to find ourselves running everything past them and feeling like we have to invite them to every event we go to. With everyone else's negative outlook on our situation I can't help but think only of the downsides and potential issues we will face - oh my gosh, if this is what it's like when our child is only a 15-week old foetus, what are we in for?! Hopefully when the baby comes it will be easier to shut out everyone else's judgement and negativity.

Would be lovely to hear your stories of similar situations that work well please, to get me back on the positive track!

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ilovesprouts · 16/02/2010 09:44

congrats

CMOTdibbler · 16/02/2010 09:50

Congratulations ! No personal experience, but I think that every one whatever type of relationship they are in gets lots of judgey pants comments when they are pg - I certainly got lots about work and what would I do, I'd have to give up the travelling wouldn't I, oh, and the baby can't have a different name to its parents can it etc etc etc, so you aren't being singled out !

drivingmisscrazy · 16/02/2010 19:05

hi - this is a bit long, sorry - but big congratulations, first of all

collywobbles are completely understandable - they happen with every pregnancy no matter how it was achieved. On the friends and neighbours' reaction front I generally viewed nosy questions positively - as a sign that these people were happy with the idea and genuinely curious. It was the brush-off reactions that I didn't like - after all, your child's conception is not a secret and you are going to spend the rest of your life explaining it. More to the point, so is s/he, so the more answers you have for different situations, the better. Oh, and also, you are not under some great moral obligation to the rest of the gay universe to explain - sometimes a simple 'yes, isn't it great?' is enough. The questions from other lesbian mums who haven't made this choice IME can be a bit much - there is an ideological divide, or can be.

We too have a KD - our DD is 13 months, and we had a great big fit at about 7 months pregnant; he put something clumsily, we went off on one, wrote him a very formal email about rights and obligations, he was hurt, and then we worked it out. It was actually kind of useful in retrospect. It made us all realise that we could resolve a conflict without everything falling apart.

Clarity and flexibility are the key: in the first year, make sure that they know that you intend everyone to stick to the terms of the agreement - this is crucial for building trust IMHO. That means you as well: remember that they might well feel vulnerable too, and that you need to include them (a father's day card from your DC, little things like that, a book of photos from the early weeks). Treat them with respect - we rarely refer to DD's father as a donor except between ourselves. He was, but now he's her dad. We compromised on a couple of key things - he wanted his parents to meet DD and whilst we weren't really keen to acquire yet another family, they are after all her family. It's worked well because we put this within the terms of the agreement (i.e. yes they could see her but these visits were included in his quota).

We are very happy with what we've decided - it's often quite hard work, and you have to make an effort, but it's also true (unlike your biological relatives) that everything has to be articulated and discussed in order to avoid misunderstanding. There are a couple of others on here who have slightly older children where these kinds of arrangements have worked well (hester and leningrad IIRC) - it's early days for us but so far so good.

drivingmisscrazy · 16/02/2010 19:06

also sorry about MC that happened to us too

LeninGrad · 16/02/2010 19:14

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skidoodle · 16/02/2010 19:24

"we are going to face challenges that we can't possibly imagine now"

well that pretty much sums up my experience of becoming a parent, although I didn't understand it before DD was in our living room.

congratulations and good luck

temm09 · 17/02/2010 18:35

Thanks so much for all the replies everyone, just what I needed! It is really helpful to be reminded that the "collywobbles" are normal drivingmisscrazy, and that everyone has to endure "judgey pants comments" CMOTdibbler!

Thanks for sharing your experiences drivingmisscrazy and LeninGrad - even though I've read so many posts on here and know that these set-ups work so well for other families, it is very reassuring to hear it again. We haven't specified in our agreement how often KD and his DP can see the little one when it comes - we're very close friends and see each other pretty often anyway. They live an hour away so we're not in each other's pockets, but we often spend part or whole weekends together, so it would be a bit weird to suddenly specify how often we would see each other. I suppose it would be beneficial for KD in the event that things completely broke down, but one of our strengths as a group of friends is being able to talk things through and sort any issues out, and we all know how important that's going to be when we become parents. The biggest fear we all have is that this decision will cause issues that will destroy our friendship, but as long as we remember to keep communication open and be considerate of one another we'll get through the bad times. Good advice dmc that I will need to be considerate of the boys too - I think of course I will, but part of me wonders what becoming a mother will do to me and whether I will become possessive and feel like I have more rights than anyone else...

Anyway, feeling back to being positive about this pregnancy and our strange little family. Just can't wait to start showing... still no bump, just a slightly fat belly!

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posieparker · 17/02/2010 18:41

Woo hoo, my dd goes to a rather posh pre-school/nursery and there are two sets of lesbian parents there, noone really noticed and they have thoroughly welcomed and accepted.

Congratulations!!!!

Perhaps to avoid conflict you should talk to a family lawyer and draw up a contract or something with regards to access and decisions. What if you and your partner split up, not that you will, but does she still have to pay maintenance and in the eyes of the law could the biological father have to pay support? I only ask this as a friend of mine had a baby with the couple's friend(the couple were straight) as they couldn't conceive and then her DH walked out on her claiming that she'd had an affair and the children weren't is, not the fact that they'd both approached his friend to help out....

posieparker · 17/02/2010 18:43

really garbled, sorry. I hope it makes sense.

hester · 20/02/2010 22:14

Oh what brilliant news - I am so pleased you got your happy ending! And it WILL be a happy ending, I promise. These jitters are completely normal at this stage, and yes it is COMPLETELY infuriating how people are fixated by the how you got pregnant thing. Sometimes even before they say congratulations, they're asking how you did that - in a really intrusive, 'but how did you get the sperm IN?' kind of way.

We are about to get our second child, by adoption, which will only increase the amount of questioning our family will put up with. You will evolve your own way of handling this, as we have - working out when people are genuinely interested versus just being nosy or combative, and honouring your own feelings about whether you want to satisfy that curiosity or not, then finding a firm but charming way of moving the conversation on. I often think of the penguins in Madagascar: "Just smile and wave, boys, smile and wave...."

As for the donor and his dp, you are right to be concerned about how this will play out with them. The time around pregnancy and birth can be very emotional, and sometimes donors do suddenly want a lot more involvement. I'm glad you've got a written agreement. it's really good to have in place, even if you end up changing it. During pregnancy I ended up feeling sprung into some big concessions, because I didn't think quickly enough to work out how to say no and didn't want to seem impolite (for example, I agreed to include dp's surname as a middle name, which I now regret). Eventually I learned to respond to every request with the words, "I need to think about that. Let's just stick with the agreement while we see how it works out" or "I'm happy to do that for the next month, but after that I want us to return to our permanent agreement". I was very flexible around visiting in the first year, for example, but was clear that we would be sticking to one day per week once I returned to work.

It isn't always easy to have a known donor, but i look at my dd with her dad and I know we did the right thing for us. He gives her so much.

One thing, though: be clear and consistent in your vision on what the relationship is between your baby and the donor. Is he going to be a dad with responsibilities, or a kind of uncle figure who visits once in a while but isn't expected to provide anything? I ask because you say he isn't contributing financially, but you're worried you'll end up running everything by him. In my book, a dad supports his child - my dd's dad pays child support and does a day a week childcare. I don't run everything by him - our contract is clear that day-to-day decision-making lies with us - but I would certainly consult him on major decisions, or at least let him know what I am intending to do (choice of schools, for example).

If we had agreed a more distant relationship, where the donor has no rights and little involvement beyond occasional visits, then I wouldn't expect any financial support.

This isn't about 'buying' access and involvement, it's about being clear what the nature of the relationship is: if you're a dad, you support your kids. If you're a donor, even a known one, you don't. Our arrangement has many advantages, but some disadvantages too (for example, my dp can't adopt our dd because her dad is on the birth certificate and understandably will not relinquish his parenthood). And I have a friend, a solicitor who specialises in gay family law, who says she often sees the reverse, where lesbian mothers basically accommodate everything the donor wants, while not asking him to contribute anything. So be clear and consistent with what the relationship is, and then it will be easier to know where you need to hold the line.

But all of that will come later. For now, just enjoy the wonder of being pregnant. Over the next few months and years you will worry about everything, but most of it will be fine!

hester · 20/02/2010 22:14

Blimey, that was a long post. Sorry about that

mathanxiety · 20/02/2010 22:20

People are rude, and when you have a baby, no matter what sort of relationship you have, they feel very free to chime in with stream of consciousness remarks of all kinds, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Welcome to the parent club!

drivingmisscrazy · 21/02/2010 19:05

I would echo hester for all sorts of reasons. You are, I am sure, very good friends, but friendship is not at all the same thing as parenthood, so clarity before the baby is born about what role you think they will have (both KD and his DP, or does KD have a different relationship to your child etc; what about their extended families?). You may find that it's not what you thought and it's really really helpful to spell these things out. Discuss what everyone will be called, for example.

Likewise with visits - I think that establishing a baseline is very very important - and this should be the minimum that you are happy with. It's easy to revise contact upwards, but very hard to renege on arrangements that have happened in practice. Our situation is a bit different in that (1) we didn't have a pre-existing relationship with our KD (this is an advantage in a way because everything has to be built from scratch, around the fact of the child) (2) he lives in a different country to us and (3) he was the one who suggested the possibility of some involvement.

I'm sure it will be fine, but there will be difficulties along the way and you need to know that you can get around them. Hope you are feeling good!

LeninGrad · 21/02/2010 20:06

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LeninGrad · 21/02/2010 20:10

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hester · 21/02/2010 20:33

He could, Lenin, but I don't think he would!
By the way, today I met someone called Stalin (his first name) and thought of you

tearinghairout · 21/02/2010 20:46

The incredibly personal comments were also part of my experience, having twins. It would go 'Ooh twins, how lovely. Bit of a handful, though? Don't suppose you'll be having any more, eh?' or 'Did you conceive them naturally?' and before you know it you're telling intimate details to a complete stranger, simply because they've asked. So my advice is, anticipate the questions and have a polite brush-off ready. (Or not so polite, up to you!)

I think these comments are just people's way of getting their heads around it. Some people are going to find it hard in your case. Sorry. Develop a thick skin!

LeninGrad · 21/02/2010 20:57

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mathanxiety · 21/02/2010 21:13

You can always reply, "Why are you so interested?" to anyone whose questions are intrusive.

LeninGrad · 21/02/2010 21:21

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hester · 21/02/2010 23:30

I knew a little girl called Red when I was at primary school - and yes, her parents were hippy radicals. Very sweet name, I think.

It's very, very tempting to ask Stalin what his parents were thinking of, but I will hold this thread in mind and just bite the words back

temm, I just made a joke of it when anybody asked about the how. I'd say something like, "Oh, you don't want to know; it's tooooo shocking!' They'd then say, "Yes, I do want to know", I'd say "No you don't!" and so on, till eventually even the most thick-skinned got the hint.

I'll probably suggest to my daughters that they use the line, "Mum says that's private" until they are old and confident enough to come up with something better.

If anyone has got any better lines, I'd love to hear them.

LeninGrad · 21/02/2010 23:33

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hester · 21/02/2010 23:41

Ah well, there's always the next baby

LeninGrad · 21/02/2010 23:46

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temm09 · 23/02/2010 10:13

Ooh this thread has kicked off! Thanks so much for your helpful comments, and for sharing your own personal experiences. Gosh, there's so much thought and planning that goes into this, but seems there's always more...

posieparker - the idea of making a contract about what would happen if my DP and I were to split has not even occured to us!

Hester your posts are always superbly long and fabulously helpful (to everyone) so please don't apologise! I'm so happy to hear your adoption is coming along, I was wondering about that.

We have put something in the contract about visits being at our discretion, but agreeing how many times a week or month KD and his DP can have contact just seems unnatural, since we see each other pretty often anyway. I realise that our relationships with one another will be affected as we become parents, but we believe this is going to work because of the solid foundation of friendship and love that we have. So to suddenly quantify how much contact KD and DP will have with the child (and therefore us) seems to undermine that.

Contact with their extended families has also been discussed, but not agreed - perhaps I should bring it up again to avoid any surprises/changes of heart further down the line! We are in, what I think is, a fortunate position of living very far away from most of our families! Myself, DP and KD are not originally from the UK and all our extended families live abroad.

I spoke to the boys about my fears and frustrations last week after I posted this, and just that makes me realise how good it is to talk and to keep the communication open. We all know that we are going to face tough times, but that we need to remember why we all thought this was such a good idea in the first place! And to remember what we have agreed about our roles. Will be interesting to watch this all play out!

As for the other people and their inappopriate probing... yup, sometimes I don't really mind, I totally get why they are curious as I know I'm rather curious about unusual things too. We also feel that if we show that we have any qualms and hang-ups about discussing our family (whether conception, the set-up or anything else) the child will pick up on that when it's here and old enough, so we may as well get comfortable with it now.

My DP found the book 'Confessions of the Other Mother' very useful in illustrating the problem of people questioning the non-bio mothers about their kids. Even at a simple comment of "Oh your daughter has got your hair!" feeling obliged to explain "Well she's not really my daughter, I mean she is, but er I'm not her biological mother..." and ending up in a full on explanation of the entire situation! That made her think about the impact a conversation would have on the child, as well as her feelings of status, and helped us to prepare for the conversations and questions we're now facing.

But some days it does just get a bit much, and LeninGrad I love your answer "Google it"!!!

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