The Situation for Trans Men in Japan

[Shizuku]

No trans person should have to have surgery in order to be legally recognised.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-56670164

@ASugarr

Completely agree. Personally I think it's bad enough in this country with how little transgender healthcare we have and having people wait four to five years just to be seen by a specialist. However to be forced into having surgery just to be legally recognized as a man is terrible. Utterly terrible.

Just identify as a young teen - you'll be seen in a matter of weeks then!

I don’t believe it should be legally possible to be registered as someone you’re not

@OldCrone

To begin with you have to leave as the gender you are for at least two years (which makes sense)

What does this mean?

Sorry, I'll see if I can explain better. Basically (mainly when you are young) doctors will require you to live as your gender for around two years to ensure it's the correct decision. This doesn't mean stereotypically. But just by doing basic things such as using pronouns, having others refer to you as your gender, etc. Plus that time means you can have the 3 to 6 essesments required.

@ASugarr

Transgender health care is in regards to having support as a transgender person. This can be from having any consultation with a specialist to having any treatment like hormones, surgery and more. To begin with you have to leave as the gender you are for at least two years (which makes sense) and only then do you get put onto a waiting list for support. This can take yet another two to three years unless you can afford to go privately.

Well 2+ year waits are pretty standard if you want NHS treatment. CAMHS and many other NHS services have very long waits. You practically have to be blind before you can get a cataract op.

That's a general issue with the NHS. There's nothing special about transgender services.

Oldcrone I think asugarr meant 'live' for two years etc rather than 'leave'

But just by doing basic things such as using pronouns, having others refer to you as your gender, etc
So just telling people you are in fact the opposite sex and having them (sounds coercive) confirm that you are, then? Really?

I understand it isn't an isolated issue. The only downside is that with mental health conditions and more, there's things like medication and support networks that help more. Where as for transgender people there are very little. It's something that is being worked on but I understand what you mean.

@applesaucespoon

Waiting lists are shit for healthcare.

I’ve had 2 perineal reconstructions so far after a violent rape, and have been waiting for 18 months (with probably another 2 years to go) for a sacral nerve stimulator because despite them I’ve remained doubly incontinent.

I'm so sorry. As a pp said, puts this nonsense into perspective.

@GreyhoundG1rl

But just by doing basic things such as using pronouns, having others refer to you as your gender, etc So just telling people you are in fact the opposite sex and having them (sounds coercive) confirm that you are, then? Really?

Essentially yes. This is to help determine if it is gender dysphoria. I know many people who do this. Experimenting with gender is totally normal and natural.

Japan is definitely not a western country. Same sex marriage is not recognized in japan. hence why trans rights are even further behind the uk.
Transing means your official document will be change which is un heard of.
The original rules to change that document were written with the idea of shall we say more traditional old school transsexuals in mind. Those with extreme body dysmorphia that would jump at the chance of removing/ changing sexual organs. Now the western idea of trans has moved on and if you take stonewalls definition then anyone who thinks they are is. Which is very very far removed from the original idea even in the Uk say 10 years ago.

So where do you/Japan draw the line? The vast majority will say if you are that committed/ your body dysmorphia is so so unbearable that you change your body and have surgery you are indeed trans.

Next level committed to changing physical appearance and taking hormones?
Not taking hormones but wishes to dress as the opposite sex.
Has an internal belief of a different gender but outwards appears as their natal sex.
Feels like they are the opposite sex/gender on Mondays but not Fridays. Pippa bunce

Also you have to remember that Japan is a sex segregated country with many facilities being sex segregated i.e. osens and gyms changing rooms. There are a lot unisex toilets.

@ASugarr

I understand it isn't an isolated issue. The only downside is that with mental health conditions and more, there's things like medication and support networks that help more. Where as for transgender people there are very little. It's something that is being worked on but I understand what you mean.

For many health issues you can't get medication until you've seen someone - again involving a long wait. And often medication isn't what's needed - there's no medication that restores the sight of a near blind pensioner who needs a cataract op.

And there are plenty of self help groups for trans people!

@transbadger

Don't you have to have a gender recognition certificate in this country to be recognised as male? Criteria for being awarded this certificate is stringent, as it should be, and currently only 5000 people hold one.

I think the requirement should be strict before you can be legally recognised as the opposite sex. Otherwise we head down the slippery slope towards self-ID.

Welsh Labour are committed to self id according to my MS.

Can you expand a little more ASugarr? Like what gender actually is, for example? I'd really like your take on it.

But just by doing basic things such as using pronouns, having others refer to you as your gender

so 'living as X gender' is entirely determined by what others say about you? that must make life complicated

I don't think we should change any laws on the basis of that then

MH provision is shocking in the UK though.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

But just by doing basic things such as using pronouns, having others refer to you as your gender

so 'living as X gender' is entirely determined by what others say about you? that must make life complicated

I don't think we should change any laws on the basis of that then

It would seem unwise. Particularly when what others say about you appears to be subject to significant control.

@ASugarr

I won't get into my personal views. I don't wish to. However scientists and doctors already confirmed that your sex doesn't determine your gender.

I won't get into my personal views either. However this makes sense; sex is a biological and mostly binary fact. Gender is a social construct and can be defined in many ways by different people.

@GreyhoundG1rl

Can you expand a little more ASugarr? Like what gender actually is, for example? I'd really like your take on it.

I don't wish to discuss it on a personal level, however I will include some resources to help explain this better.

service-manual.nhs.uk/content/inclusive-language

www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21#definitions-and-differences

@ASugarr

Transgender health care is in regards to having support as a transgender person. This can be from having any consultation with a specialist to having any treatment like hormones, surgery and more. To begin with you have to leave as the gender you are for at least two years (which makes sense) and only then do you get put onto a waiting list for support. This can take yet another two to three years unless you can afford to go privately.

Mental health services are terribly underfunded. Campaign for more funding for the services.

Like women campaigned and fund raised for better women’s health and social care.

The idea that you should entrust your concept of self, and outsource your sense of what and who you are as a person to the perception of others is the exact opposite of what someone struggling with their identity should do. It’s positively reckless.

@ASugarr

I won't get into my personal views. I don't wish to. However scientists and doctors already confirmed that your sex doesn't determine your gender.

I find the same words are being used to mean different things in different contexts and to different people. This can cause confusion and misunderstanding.

This is especially true for "sex" and "gender" where misunderstandings can cause hurt and upset, or lead to misapplication of the law.

To make sure we are all on the same page, it's really important to make sure we are all using the same meanings for these words before making any assertions based on them.

When these scientists assert that "gender" is not determined by "sex" , what specifically are they defining "sex" and "gender" as?

Speaking only of those specific definitions, why does "gender", which is not determined by sex, in some people require medical intervention to cosmetically adjust physical "sex" characteristics? Are the people who need such medical interventions suffering from a physical problem?

Trust me, we are trying

So none of that even suggests that gender expression is the same as biological sex, ASugarr.
Why then do you think people should be able to be legally recognised as the opposite sex?

@applesaucespoon

Waiting lists are shit for healthcare.

I’ve had 2 perineal reconstructions so far after a violent rape, and have been waiting for 18 months (with probably another 2 years to go) for a sacral nerve stimulator because despite them I’ve remained doubly incontinent.

I’m so sorry to hear what you are going through.

@GreyhoundG1rl

So none of that even suggests that gender expression is the same as biological sex, ASugarr. Why then do you think people should be able to be legally recognised as the opposite sex?

Gender expression and gender identity aren't the same. Neither is biological sex and gender identity. The main reason that on birth certificates and other documentation their sex is changed is to prevent discrimination. However medical records still record their biological sex and tbh they are the only ones who need to know someone's biological sex.