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This board is primarily for those whose children have LGBTQ+ parents to share their personal experiences and advice.

Original poster

Adopting my non-bio ds

51 replies

Impatience · 19/03/2007 20:56

We're about to start the procedings for me (non-bio mum) to adopt our 18month ds. We have our civil partnership.

From what I've seen on various forums, it looks like dp (bio mum) has to essentially give ds up for adoption, and we then adopt him as a couple. This seems to be what happens in step-child adoptions. Have I got this right? If I have got this right, does it make any difference that we were together (and had been for ages) when ds was conceived, that it was a joint project, rather than me joining a pre-existing family of mother and child. In effect it's the same as if a hetero couple conceived through donor insemination, yet I don't expect they don't have to got through these proceedings. (I'm sure they tend to skirt the issue by lying on the birth certificate.)

Anyway, I'm not complaining about the way things seem to be, but I want to clarify whether I've got the right end of the stick. Because we conceived ds together it seems to me that there might possibly be differences between my adoption of ds and that by a new partner joining a family.

SO what I'm finally getting round to asking is: Have I understood this right? Who's done this, and how did it feel to the bio mum if she really did have to adopt her own child? And do I really need to stress too much about the state of the house when the lady from the adoption team makes her first visit on Monday?!

OP posts:
Original poster
Impatience · 19/03/2007 20:58

(er, should read 'yet I don't expect they have to go through these proceedings')

OP posts:
Dottydot · 19/03/2007 21:07

ooh - I don't know! Sorry, but when you find out, can you let me know?! I got parental responsibility for ds1 because we had him pre-civil partnerships, but we've never got around to getting dp PR for ds2 and now we've had our ceremony I doubt we'll bother. Is there any reason in particular you want to go through the adoption process?

hester · 19/03/2007 21:12

I haven't done this, and can't because our dd's father is involved in her life (and so wouldn't be prepared to renounce his fatherhood - the law won't recognise three parents). But legally it is certainly different from a non-bio father in a donor insemination situation, because the law recognises that such a man is entered on the birth certificate and is recognised as the father provided he consented to the DI treatment. Our partners get no such recognition.

I'm afraid I really don't know any more than that. Have you had legal advice? Gill Butler at BurtonWoods is a fab solicitor with loads of expertise in this area. You might also try the Stonewall website (I've not checked it out myself, but worth a go).

Good luck x

hester · 19/03/2007 21:14

Dottydot, can you explain to me what difference civil partnership makes to getting parental responsibility? Does it mean you needn't bother, or does it just make the process easier?

I haven't got round to doing either - or making a will - and occasionally I get a cold gust of nerves about how vulnerable we are legally.

Dottydot · 19/03/2007 21:17

Hester - I wish I could say I knew..! Friends of mine got PR for their 2nd son after they'd had their civil partnership and i think it was easier - I think they just had to send a form off (I think...).

Must admit we've got very lazy with ds2 and not done anything. Although we got our wills done when ds1 was born and got them written so that they'd cover any subsequent children, as we were trying for ds2 at the time!

I kind of think that now we're officially 'partnered' and the bloody child benefit people have dropped our money for ds2, it's recognised that both boys are 'ours' - but I know that if push came to shove we're probably not entirely legally covered.

hester · 19/03/2007 21:56

And - forgive me for asking - but do you have an involved donor/father? Because of course it's that that makes me feel vulnerable; if anything happened to me dd's dad would have all the legal rights and dp would have none.

Actually, I've just freaked myself out so much I'm going to stop arsing about and get myself off to a solicitor.

shan17 · 19/03/2007 22:00

HI, my partner has applied to adopt our (my biological) 22-month-old daughter. The old law stipulated that I would have to give up custody and then re-adopt her but that is no longer true. You make the application to the court on your own. If the child has a known donor or a father, he will be asked to relinquish his parental rights. A social worker will ask you, your partner and the biological father some questions and file a report. Because you and your partner conceived (of) this child together, it would seem to me that this should be an open-and-shut case. We are looking forward to the court date; it will be a joyous occasion! Do ask if there is anything else you want to know, and congratulations!
Shan x

Dottydot · 19/03/2007 22:03

Hi - ds's have a Dad and he's named on both their birth certificates - so for ds2 (because the law changed in between having them) he actually has parental responsibility, which dp hasn't.

But we have a fantastic arrangement/relationship with their Dad, who dp went to school with and is a great friend. We drew up an agreement before we had ds1 that we were all happy with and it's always been the case that their Dad can have as much involvement as he wants, but the minimum criteria had to be that he was named on their birth certificates - we always wanted our children to know who their Dad was.

So for us I think it's the opposite to the situation you're in - the boys (and us!) would love him to be as involved as possible - they see him every few weeks and actually it's increasing, which suits all of us - it's lovely seeing them with him. He's never wanted children or a family in the traditional sense, so it suits him down to the ground!

So I'd never worry about him being legally more responsible or having more rights than dp - it just would never be an issue. The issue will be when one or both ds's want to move in with him (he's got a lovely man-type bachelor pad - huge telly, big leather settees - the boys think they're in heaven when we go round!!) and he'll be changing the locks..!

Dottydot · 19/03/2007 22:04

Shan - that's really interesting - thanks - and good luck!!!

hester · 19/03/2007 22:16

Thanks for that, dot. What a nice situation you've got. I do actually think my dd's dad is a great father and I'm really pleased he's in her life, but I can't be certain he would continue to respect our arrangement if I was off the scene.

I wonder if civil partnership will affect this legal problem that you can't have three parents. For families like ours, three (or four) parents are often a reality and it feels very unfair that one parent has to renounce their position in order to let another claim it.

kayjayel · 19/03/2007 22:18

Re: PR vs adoption - I only know what I picked up, but I thought PR ends at 18, whereas adoption is for life, so I wanted adoption, as next of kin stuff still applies, and it would be awful if DS had health needs when he's over 18 and that DP wouldn't have rights. (DP is Impatience by the way ). I assume as well there must be various tax laws etc. that still operate after age 18 - like tax free gifts to children and giving property, not to mention DS looking after us in our senility, which if he doesn't start sleeping soon will be sooner than he thinks!

Shan, thanks for info - good luck, hope it all goes well!

kayjayel · 19/03/2007 22:33

Dearest partner kayjayel, get your mitts off my thread!

So, anyway, dp has told you why we want adoption rather than PR. I want to be as legally ds's mum as possible, permanantly, and that mean adoption.

Shan, I was hoping to hear what you said! In my optimistic the-world-is-fab moments I hoped it would be that straightforward. I have filled out the form, and it was all about me, nothing about dp, so it looks like what you describe will be the case for me. Our donor is not on the birth certificate, by agreement, and he's in our lives but as our friend rather than ds's father, so there won't be any contention from him, or even on his behalf by courts etc. Congrats to you too . When is your final court date?

Hester, you asked what difference the civil partnership makes. All I can tell you is that on the adoption forms there were various boxes to tick that included 'I am the husband/civil partner of the child's biological mother'. (It felt wonderful to be able to tick a box without writing a disclaimer in the margin! Blimey, I must be out of my argumentative youth...) There wasn't a box for uncivil partner () so I guess that perhaps the civility makes it all a bit more simple.

I can keep you all posted, if you want.

Original poster
Impatience · 19/03/2007 22:34

oops, that last post was from me: dp was still signed in...

OP posts:
shan17 · 20/03/2007 13:22

We haven't received a court date yet, but I will post here when we do! DD's birthday is in May -- it would be great to have a double celebration...
xxx
Shan

Original poster
Impatience · 20/03/2007 14:08

Shan, I'm so pleased to hear your case was so easy, and I'm hoping ours will be too. What kind of checks did they run on your partner? Did they interview any referees? What about you: Did they have to check you out, or not at all since it was only your partner who was making an application to adopt?

How long has it all taken? Let's hoping it does indeed all end soon!

OP posts:
hester · 20/03/2007 22:15

Please do keep us posted, Impatience - and good luck x

Dottydot · 20/03/2007 22:16

ooh yes - want to hear from Impatience and Shan (and isn't it exciting to have such an active gay mums thread?! )

shan17 · 20/03/2007 23:19

Both my partner and I got checked out they even asked questions about whether there was mental illness in the family line! They run a criminal check on the prospective adopter and they ask you a flurry of questions about the child. Ours was about 20 months old at the time, so couldn;t answer questions for herself, but the adoption social worker noted that she was well-adjusted, happy and doted upon, which was all true! We didn;t see it as an ordeal, though telling a stranger about why we were good parents was a little irritating heck, we are probably better parents than she is!
Okay, that attitude is going to get me nowhere, but for Chrissakes, DP and I have been together for 21 years, have changed immigration law for same-sex partners, taken on the Anglican church, become the first couple to have had their partnership blessed in our parish, 11 years ago, etc, etc. SO yes, we were irked, but we did play by the rules and made her coffee and were very nice.
Sigh.
Anyway, the very best of luck to you both -- it really is a minor irritation and not a ordeal, and you will sail past it!
xxx
Shan

shan17 · 20/03/2007 23:21

And no, they did not require referees, and the whole process could be wrapped up in a couple of months if you have an active social worker who doesn;t hold up the reports she has to file to the courts.
xxx

Original poster
Impatience · 21/03/2007 12:50

Shan, you are an inspiration! I'm very impressed with your haggling with authority to be able to live your lives.

Thanks for all this information. It really is starting to sound a lot easier than I imagined.

I shall keep you all posted. First meeting on Monday...

OP posts:
Original poster
Impatience · 22/03/2007 10:33

OK, update 1: Fizzle fizzle, false start... Adoption Team lady has cancelled. I half expected it: I know they'll have emergency cases coming in all the time, and safe old ds is low priority in comparison. But the selfish me is annoyed that they won't make getting this easy peasy case off their hands a priority!

Oh well, gives us a bit more time to finally fix the fireguard, safety-lock the bleach cupboard, put all those medicine bottles away... I'm feeling very paranoid. It's bad enough when my mum comes to visit!

OP posts:
Whoooosh · 22/03/2007 16:29

DP went for PR and we got it three weeks ago for dd-yay!

Hadn't even really considered the adoption route and certainly hadn't considered beyond they age of 18 so I think I will have to look into it.

Thanks for such an informative thread and congrats and thanks Shan17

Original poster
Impatience · 22/03/2007 17:02

Congrats on the PR Whoooosh. I bet it's such a relief. I feel that I'm lucky to have got away without having any legal 'rights' to ds so far.

OP posts:
hester · 22/03/2007 21:32

Many congrats, Whooosh - how long did the process take?

Whoooosh · 23/03/2007 14:55

Hester-it was suprisingly simple actually.
I called a few "gay friendly solicitors" from Stonewall directory and they were hopeless and said it would cost at least £3k .

All we did was ring the family court,ask for the necessary papers,fill them out,send a cheque for £175,they sent us a court date,we went,the mediator assigned to us had nothing to do because funnily enough we were in agreement,judge had to literally "phone a friend" as he was unsure of the law and after a short wait we went back in and he granted a residence order and PR.