Safe space for parents of LGBT adults

[Name5]

As the title says really. If anyone wants to ask a question re their adolescent/adult DC.
I have been in this position for 8 years and the issues are very different for adult people versus children.

Thank you for starting this thread. Can you say which letters you have experience of as a parent, as I think the issues are different?

Yes of course.
My experience is in trans and lesbianism.

And I would agree that same sex attracted people and trans people have vastly different issues.

I have started the thread so people can ask about jobs, work, university, siblings etc.
It's not intended to invite hidden discrimination.
I've been active on threads over the last month that basically showed discrimination was rife against adult trans people.They wouldn't be offered jobs, would not be welcomed as a teacher of people's children or indeed as a medic helping in emergency situations.

It is not unlawful to be trans and I make no claim as an ally.
I've seen posts hi jacked when parents are desperate for advice.

I've seen posts hi jacked when parents are desperate for advice.

May I ask what you mean by hijacking?

For example, I don't think there should be any barriers to people with transgender identities having jobs.

We have existing mechanisms to vet teachers that would apply equally to anyone who had a transgender identity or not. The difficult part is understanding the risk signs of paraphilias: we can't assume all men who apply to teaching are paedophiles (just because we recognise that most paedophiles are men) and we can't assume that all transwomen are autogynophiles (just because we recognise that some - nobody really knows how many -are). It stands to reason that it would not be sensible to employ paedophiles or autogynophiles as teachers. There are plenty of other paraphilias that you could add to that list too of course.

And on the subject of lesbianism, unfortunately there are many examples of trans lesbians calling lesbians "transphobic" or "genital fetishists" if they say they aren't interested in "women with penises". It's totally understandable that a transwoman who is attracted to women would see themselves as a lesbian. But equally, it's totally understandable that anyone who doesn't believe that people have a gender identity would see the same transwoman as a straight male who identifies as a woman.

Is that hijacking or is that the kind of thing you wanted to talk about? I can appreciate it must be really difficult being a parent and supporting your adult child with these kind of issues to navigate.

@BonfireLady the thread is for support.

With regard to safeguarding in schools people should be aware that a DBS may not show up previous convictions if a person has changed their name and holds a GRC.
That needs to be more robust. That I agree on.

The nature of the thread is not to highlight points of law or infringement of the rights of women and girls although I appreciate many feel trans people are deliberately seeking to do this.
There are daily threads on that in FWR.

No problem.

I'll leave you to it. I'll lurk though as it'll be interesting to understand what kind of issues are faced. I agree with you that there are plenty of threads on the FWR board to cover legality etc.

With regard to safeguarding in schools people should be aware that a DBS may not show up previous convictions if a person has changed their name and holds a GRC.
That needs to be more robust. That I agree on.

Yep. And there are plenty of threads on this as above 😁

I guess my parting comment would be that I would hope/ask that parents of adult children with transgender identities recognise that not everyone does believe that we all have a gender identity and that it's not hateful to say this. I have a huge sympathy for anyone who does have this belief and feels distressed that theirs doesn't match their body. I'm glad that the NHS is now doing a review of adult gender services so that they can get access to better care.

Good luck with the thread and I hope you get the engagement you're looking for. Being a parent who wants the best for your child isn't easy, no matter which "side" of this whole thing you are on and no matter how old your child.

@BonfireLady thank you for your thoughts.
I've had a pretty crap today re some old issues. I thought we had reached a place of mutal respect.

I'm here as a parent of an adult autistic person who thought they were trans but had just been sucked into the rhetoric by peers and social media and is thankfully on the other side of it now (and quite gender critical!)

@Gozillah great to hear. I thought we were there too re questioning the T ideology. Today I have been dealing with my DDs poor mental health and that always pushes her down a rabbit hole.
I do genuinely understand the old school transgender TW and TM. I have employed a number of TW. No issues.
But if you know the reason for DC identifying outside of their sex is trauma, bullying, SEN and SA are we to roll over? I can't.
Dress how you like, call yourself Fred/ ginger but you are what you are. There is no need to confirm to anyone.
I had a very heated argument today with an old female friend who said I was being ridiculous. Times have change blah blah. Not her kid who wanted surgery.

I’ve found that it’s very different being the parent of a trans identifying adult child when speaking to friends who regard themselves as allies - but of course it’s not their child who wants to go down a permanent medical route:(
My child is about to turn 20 and lives away at college as the opposite sex (but hasn’t done that at home so far yet)
We’ve been tiptoeing around gender ‘limbo’ for 2 years now. It’s not what I ever expected and whilst I love my child with all of my being, that’s precisely why I can’t support permanent choices being made at such a young age still. I’m at more peace now with how I feel and my child knows I adore them (and support them financially pursuing their dream career at university) but at every turn I’m forced to deal with the fact that they can make their own decisions now:(

@RIPDotCotton its so hard.
Mine is at uni too but is on a long study path.
I did see some changes after her first degree. She had more of her own mind. A lot of 'medical facts' were debunked.
She's also had a shock regarding potential fertility issues. I was terrified that might be used to persuade her to have surgery (as in you're not destined to be a mother, free hysterectomy etc) . But she is genuinely upset. She would be a fab mother and she's a huge feminist from a long line of feminists including a great granny who tied herself to the railings.
I wish the television would offer the other side of gender ideology. It's never a balanced view.

@Name5 if you have not already done so you might find it helpful to join the Bayswater Support Group. They offer support to parents of trans identifying children and young people. There are a number of parents of adults there. I have found it a very helpful source of support. I think only parents who are going through this really understand.

Bayswater Support Group

Thank you @Nightmare2022 i did contact them some years ago.
It's a waiting game on our end. I work daily to read everything I can and answer the questions or refute statements.
It's full on. I've kept off the FWR board which is sad as a feminist.

I know I said I'd only lurk OP but I'm coming back for a quick comment:

I've kept off the FWR board which is sad as a feminist.

I fully understand this 😔 There are some amazing posters on that board but I can understand how some of the forthrightness would feel like a judgement and/or knife to the heart. I think most posters are sympathetic to parents caught up in this but I'm guessing it only takes one comment to feel like you've just been punched in the stomach e.g. when the Helen Joyce stuff about parents being invested etc gets discussed. There is perhaps an undercurrent of "these parents are stupid as well as dangerous" that comes through on occasion. Although I would fully understand staying off it, hopefully you've also seen some examples of posters who empathise with the difficulty of your position.

I think only parents who are going through this really understand.

Agreed. That's why I still value all voices, including parents whose children (adult or otherwise) have transitioned. My own daughter doesn't seem to be gender questioning any more but she's still distressed by her body changing during puberty and confused about what it means to "be" a girl. Most of her issues these days are sensory related (linked to her autism) and are manageable with help e.g. sports bras (she hates how her breasts feel and wishes they weren't there) and progesterone only pill (she gets occasional periods these days and handles them brilliantly when they happen... but still hates how all aspects of it make her body feel, including the internal feelings of blood moving, as well as the tummy pain).

Edited to add a bit more about the FWR board.

@BonfireLady with FWR it can be discrimatary. I hate the sheer anger at trans people.
What I have seen is everyone lumped together. Those who have had surgery, cross dressers, convicted sex offenders. Teenagers in skirts and lippy. Very few people are allowed to just be.
Fwuw I think the legal term transwoman, transman is enough. It respects biology and the law. I have never been directed to a case where a post full surgery transgender person has been charged with indecency or sexual assault. Yet trans people are denied jobs, thought unsuitable to teach children and young adults and provide healthcare even when they maybe a desparetly needed medic. It reminds me of the LGB discrimination of my youth.
You of course may see other threads that are more supportive.
I admit I want my DD to fully embrace her biological sex but that will be her choice.
Trans personas are a hard life choice. I married a person of a different race and that has been hard. Ditto full recent disability.

I don’t think ‘transwomen’ and ‘trans men’ are legal terms are they?

The only term I’m aware of in statute is ‘transsexual’.

FWIW, I do think trans people are unsuitable for teaching children if children are told lies about their sex and asked to call a man ‘Miss’ and a woman ‘Mr’.

I also think the likelihood of a male teacher who dresses as a woman doing so for fetishistic purposes is too high to take the risk of him working with children.

@Leafstamp thank you for the post.
My solicitor had told me the TW, TM defination they must refer to. I will check though.
I think I sit very much on the side of post surgery transgender people and not those who choose a social persona of a different biological sex. That's just clothes.
If a man was teaching and decided on Monday morning to become a TW there are so many things to consider. The children would be confused, some frightened depending on age and the teacher has created so much disruption. It is a selfish choice but one protected by emploment rights.
Fwiw I had a TW lecturer at university but it was decades ago and the individual was fully transitioned. However we all knew.
I do see how in primary schools it would be concerning however in secondary schools the individual would need to be very brave indeed. Teenagers would eat them for breakfast.

I hear this sort of view a lot. Possibly I would have thought this way a few years ago.

However, I have done more reading and thinking:

• what does ‘fully transition’ mean?
• what amount of surgery or hormones is needed to reach this state of ‘fully transition’?
• is it right that people are obliged to undergo extreme body modification in order to expect certain treatment or status? (Hint: it’s not because it’s against Human Rights law)

and so on.

@Leafstamp just my thoughts.

I've spent nearly a decade researching too.
Perhaps we'll agree to differ?

Just for clarification on this thread. I started this for others to ask questions without any pile ons.
Perhaps those of us with transgender DC will have different points of view at different stages of our family journey. My views have changed and it has enabled me to challenge things and have my own opinion and not blindly accept what is presented to me. In the past I was too afraid incase it caused fallout and harm.

Of course we can agree to differ, that’s what’s good about these types of forums, you get to hear other views. Like you do IRL of course.

I hope anyone who needs this space feels able to ask questions.

Another thread this last week about a trans identifying young adult at university.
The same posters suggesting bad parenting and cutting the student off. I don't contribute on FWR as my heart sinks when the same old arguments overtake the thread. One poster is so vicious in her responses I'm surprised she's still allowed on MN.
I hate the 'round these people up' mentality. It's horrific.
Yes loos are an issue but so is discrimination. If people choose this life they are going to find trouble.
They don't need blinkered people who have no interest in why they feel different.
Too many pitchforks for my liking.

My ds is 23. He tells me that he's felt some kind of dysmorphia since age 11. He's always been very very bright and very quirky. The feelings of dysmorphia have ramped up to the point its been causing full on depression. Hes now experimenting with wearing make up and slightly more feminine clothes and is pleased when people mistake him for a woman. He's booked a private consultation as the NHS waiting list hes been placed on is 6-8 years long. He doesn't wish to change his name, doesn't wish to dress ' as a woman' but definitely hates anything about his body that is 'male' (shaving etc) So much to navigate, all while knowing that he's 23 and can do what he wants

@Lightuptheroom sorry for the late reply. I'm a lark.
My DD is 22 and felt very much the same.

I wonder if general counselling would help? My daughter has this and she talks through all sorts of stuff.
Personally non binary seems to be more widely accepted than a trans persona. My DD has plenty of friends who indentify this way. The general feeling is they don't fit stereo types. Over the last twenty years we've made it hard for non conforming people. Personally I think reality TV has added to this. The pop stars of the eighties were very much accepted and no one batted an eyelid.
Your son could have IPL at a salon for his beard but why not try a home option? You need dark hair and light skin for best results. They don't work well on black skin. Worth a try.

@Name5 thank you for setting up this thread, I think it is very much needed. I have an adult dd who has decided that she may be trans or non binary after counselling. I am not thrilled but also I want to be supportive whilst also not necessarily encouraging. The reality is that she is an adult so I cannot stop her choices. Currently it is limited to clothing only. I agree with you about the FWR boards, it just isn't helpful for parents navigating this situation. The whole thing is complicated by possibility of ND (my other children have been diagnosed) and an immensely stressful job. It is hard and I am glad I can say that here.