Just found chest tape in daughter’s room

[QueenBing]

My 14 yr old DD has been struggling with gender identity for a while. I told her she needed to have specialist counselling (which she’s on a waiting list for) before I could support any change. Her father and I are divorced but he and his new partner are calling her by her preferred male name and he’s just given her a birthday card with “happy birthday son” on the front of it.

I went into her room to get her washing, as usual it’s strewn all over the place, and she’s left out a box which is WIVOV chest binding tape. I looked it up online, it’s £9-14. I went through her transactions on her card and there are no transactions for that amount of money. I can only think someone (probably her dad) has bought it for her. She hasn’t told me about it. I’m hurt she’s kept it a secret but also worried. Can it cause lasting damage??

I’m not transphobic by any stretch, I’ve just said to her I want to be sure this is the right road to go down before I can fully support it. She’s already had her hair cut very short, her dad took her, and she wears men’s clothes, so she seems pretty set on being a boy. However, she’s gay, she’s on the neuro pathway for an autism diagnosis and she’s experienced family trauma when her dad and I split so I know she’s at risk for thinking she’s trans. I don’t know what to do.

Honestly I’m going with what he has said, I personally think it is a phase because he isn’t enjoying being female, he says he knows he is not a girl but can’t tell me why, but he is happier as he is now, he dresses the same ( was never particularly girlie) am sure some people will think it is wrong but if that is how he wants to identify I am happy. If and when he wants counselling to take things further I will support as much as I can with caution

Well, either keep doing what you're doing, force him to keep more secrets, and fuck up your relationship with your child, or have an open conversation, research safe binding from trans organisations (if you're not transphobic you presumably accept that trans men exist, in which case you know they're the best people to speak on this having done it themselves), and probably start calling your kid what they want to be called. The more casual you are about names and pronouns, the easier it is to go back if he realises he was just messing around with his presentation.

If you or anyone can give a coherent meaning of what it means to be trans then the word ‘transphobic’ will have greater meaning also.

It is a perfectly normal and scientifically evidence view to know that people can’t change sex. It’s also a perfectly normal and morally acceptable belief to not think people have such thing as a ‘gender identity’ or some sort of ‘inner gender’.

Me saying these things is not transphobic in the same way that me saying that I don’t believe Mohammed was a messenger from God is not me being Islamophobic.

Mostly disagree it "homophobia" is a "real" thing and the word has been made up to make non-homosexuals, trans, etc appear as if they have a phobia SIMPLY for not finding homosexuality attractive or acceptable.

As I stated: a person who is not homosexual (due to biology) may have an "eww" response because they are NOT biologically attracted to the same sex. They are not turned on or attracted as opposed to someone who IS homosexual and that does not mean they are fearful of a homosexual. What is there to be fearful of?...in a homosexual? A non homosexual is no more fearful of a homosexual than a heterosexual. It is ridiculous to suggest such. That is per se like someone being Asianphobic.

If one does not religiously or morally believe homosexuality is not acceptable does that make them a homophobic? Hardly.

Does it make them a "hater"? No.

The only thing it makes them is having a personal belief system and their experience and their life.

Which is no more "homophobic" than a homosexual being hetero-"phobic" because the opposite sex isn't attractive to them.

I’d say, “hey kid, found this breast tape stuff in your laundry and figured you’re trying to make your boobs smaller. Do you want to talk about that or will you curl up and die with mortification? I don’t really think this breast tape stuff will be very good for you but guess what I do have some good ideas what else we can do about your shape”.

Watch the Olympics with her and get her into sport! Honestly THE best way to sculpt your body is through exercise. Take her climbing, running, rowing. Hiking, camping, tree climbing, wild camping, kayaking. Enrol her in martial arts and Army Cadets (loads of ND, Sen and lgbt there she may find her tribe but with a different focus) and Duke of Edinburgh. Every morning push-ups and sit-ups and planks and pull-ups. Get her building abs.

The navel-gazing, self-obsession of an adolescent is the biggest problem here - get her outside herself in a new obsession, and herself won’t matter as much.

It is absolutely empowering to change your shape through exercise.

I remember reading a fascinating interview with Demi Moore about the different exercise programs she did to get in shape for GI Jane and that film where she was a stripper. She said the exercise to turn her muscles into the long, lean muscles of a stripper was extremely hard work and she loved it.

I spent my teens in vast baggy T shirts and looked huge. I hated my body.If you asked me at 20 I was NEVER having kids. By the time I reached my mid 30s I realised going to the gym had made me fit and beautiful. My two kids were ebf. I am now older and fatter and I hate my body again so I’m trying to change it.

We change and grow and learn. I bring my dd up with the idea we should never close doors to the future - that means we study hard at school even if we don’t want an academic job. And we keep our bodies healthy so they can become anything we like in future.

My previous response to this was deleted for ‘misgendering’, also known as correctly sexing, but hey ho, that’s how mumsnet decide to run things.

For completeness of the thread, my point, reworded, was :

"That’s sad that your child doesn’t like being female. Obviously your child will always be female so I hope it’s something your child grows to accept. I hope that counselling or any medical advice will also inform your child of the major limitations and drawbacks of attempting to imitate the opposite sex using artificial hormones"

And further to this, I think it’s helpful if counselling (or indeed parents) make it clear to those wanting to transition that there is a good chance that they will get ‘misgendered’ at some point.

Not because people are being deliberately unkind but because they have eyes and it’s very hard to say something that your brain knows is false. And also because people often don’t like being asked to participate in someone else’s private belief system.

Furthermore, in the case of men who want to be called ‘she’, sometimes the control of dictating pronouns is part of the thrill. Many GC women absolutely won’t take part in this.

I appreciate your points. As I said he is not talking hormones yet, is happy and accepts being mis gendered as he knows he can’t pass as male. I am sad that he feels that he isn’t female, but can’t tell me what about being female isn’t him.. but we are working through it. He knows I believe that you cannot change sex and gender is a societal concept, I truly believe he just dislikes having a sizeable chest and periods but I cannot get him to accept that so I am accepting his take on his world and will urge caution before taking it further ( he knows the risks and is being sensible when it comes to binding and doesn’t bind everyday or for long periods)

Fair enough if caution is being exercised, I can understand to some extent wanting to support your child in a way that doesn’t upset them.

I find it interesting that you are calling your child ‘he’ on here if you don’t believe your child is a boy.

Is it that you think pronouns correspond to gender identity rather than sex?

I can understand, sort of, why you would not misgendering your child to their face but on an anonymous chat board it feels a bit like your child’s ideas about themselves is dictating your actions far wider than is necessary.

Or are you worried about being accused of misgendering by others on here?

I think it is partly because of the gender pronoun correspondence but also I am trying to make it part of my regular thought process as so easy to drop back to she/ her which although he is understanding of obviously hurts him. It is hard when he is wearing a skirt but I am going with what he has asked us to call him and I don’t really know why I use he here rather than she..

@Gizlotsmum thank you for you honest and forthcoming reply.

I don’t know what the right answer is regarding use of pronouns in your scenario is but I personally find it quite significant that people are so willing to call a female child ‘he’.

I worry that for some children the psychological impact of social transition will one day be found to be as harmful as the physical/medical aspects.

I do share your concerns and he hasn’t told grandparents yet so it can get confusing when out with them. However he is happier now than he was six months ago and I would rather he told us how he was feeling, and feel supported in making these decisions as he can then transition back with the same ease.

That is an ideological belief. Not a fact. Many people do not subscribe to your ideology. Please respect that.