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LGBT children

This board is primarily for parents of LGBTQ+ children to share personal experiences and advice. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful that this is a supportive space.

Just found chest tape in daughter’s room

89 replies

QueenBing · 24/03/2024 14:29

My 14 yr old DD has been struggling with gender identity for a while. I told her she needed to have specialist counselling (which she’s on a waiting list for) before I could support any change. Her father and I are divorced but he and his new partner are calling her by her preferred male name and he’s just given her a birthday card with “happy birthday son” on the front of it.

I went into her room to get her washing, as usual it’s strewn all over the place, and she’s left out a box which is WIVOV chest binding tape. I looked it up online, it’s £9-14. I went through her transactions on her card and there are no transactions for that amount of money. I can only think someone (probably her dad) has bought it for her. She hasn’t told me about it. I’m hurt she’s kept it a secret but also worried. Can it cause lasting damage??

I’m not transphobic by any stretch, I’ve just said to her I want to be sure this is the right road to go down before I can fully support it. She’s already had her hair cut very short, her dad took her, and she wears men’s clothes, so she seems pretty set on being a boy. However, she’s gay, she’s on the neuro pathway for an autism diagnosis and she’s experienced family trauma when her dad and I split so I know she’s at risk for thinking she’s trans. I don’t know what to do.

OP posts:
TooTiredToType77 · 30/04/2024 17:07

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6298447/

Predictablenamechange1 · 30/04/2024 17:24

Ah OP. You have all of.my empathy and sympathy.

My 15-year-old niece/nephew is being pushed into this by her stepmother as around here it would seem cool or something to have a trans child. Every time I've seen them they're in normal girls clothing but SM is pushing binding, hormone treatments etc (I'm using they/them as I can't see my niece in a dress as a boy!)

They're bi which of course is absolutely fine but I'm worried something will be done that isn't reversible. My DB doesn't agree with it but won't stand up to his wife. Their mother refuses to go along with it. It's just a tomboy phase IMO, which I had too. They have a lovely girlfriend and I would never disrespect them by not using their new chosen masculine name or pronouns but why push it??

My other niece (only 6!) has been talking about being a boy already. Ridiculous.

Predictablenamechange1 · 30/04/2024 17:35

Pingtotheeastwoodly · 30/04/2024 15:18

I am a parent and I am angry. I don’t think some people understand how devastating it can be going through this. It’s literally like a bereavement but how do you recover when your child hasn’t actually died?

I'm so sorry for what you've gone through. It's a LOT to deal with. I know my DB mourns his little girl, even though they're still here and still present as a girl most of the time. It's weird for all of us to call them by their chosen new name.

Name5 · 30/04/2024 18:16

Hello, I hope I can help.
My DC is 20 and ftm. 7 years we have been on this journey.
Today my DC went to the doctors re a bad shoulder and back. The doctor told her she had caused the strain on her lat through the tight sports bras. My DC has a very full bust and hates it. We never bought binders but she now has this injury.
However on this mind blowing situation she has changed. She wanted surgery and hormones. She no longer does. Age and experience changed her. She also started to question the motives of the online community which is mainly natal male. Her friend has been taking testosterone and didn't even know it effected fertility. My daughter found that out early on. It is difficult to navigate this situation. I took the route of open conversation. I try to get my DC to read things such as the Cass report. It is part of her studies so I'm covered there.
I second the pp who said try to understand why your DD feels like this. We have talked a lot about access and safety. My young adult isn't a tomboy or gay but I think she was dragged into a group who supported her after bullying and worse. A large number were ASD. Say 'sweetheart these can be harmful, let me get you minimizer bra'
Only time will tell if your child is truly trans. Ask me anything and I will try to help.

SammyScrounge · 30/04/2024 18:36

Chickenwing2 · 29/04/2024 21:37

@BigRedCat while the child's biological sex is female, they have shown they feel their gender is male.

She's.gay. Autism is being investigated. There is every.possibility that some trans.activist.has told her that all.her problems will be solved and she'll be happy if she takes a pill or gets ready for surgery in the future.
The OP might buy a copy of Barnes's or Shrier's book for Dad. If he doesn't follow the papers he may not be aware how dangerous all this is. He should be made aware.

fairymary87 · 30/04/2024 18:38

You and the dad neeed to be on the same page. Or friction will arise

QueenBing · 30/04/2024 21:32

Sorry to check back in so late! Thanks so much for the replies, I do appreciate input from all sides.
I decided not to talk to her directly about finding the binding tape but i did bring up something about chest binders when we were having a conversation (something about drag queens) and it came up. I expressed my worries and she said she understands the dangers.
We’ve had the conversation many times about what it means to feel like a boy and a girl and why she feels like a boy. All she can say is she doesn’t know, she just feels different. She’s a very intelligent and articulate 14 year old, very academic, very wordy so it’s odd she can’t get her words out.
CAMHS have now stepped in and have offered 6 individual counselling sessions, she’s had her first one this week. They refer to her by her chosen boy’s name. I asked her if she was upset I wasn’t using he/him pronouns and the preferred name. She said no because she understands my caution. We have a good relationship and she knows she can talk to me but her dad tries to be a mate rather than a parent. He bought her the birthday card while she was there and he smirked as he picked it up. He said “I wish I could see your mum’s face when you bring this home.” Then he pretended to write in it “dear QueenBing, does this boil your piss?” and laughed. So she knows his affirmation is in part to try and piss me off. It’s impossible trying to talk to him about it. He has BPD with traits of narcissism (officially diagnosed) so it’s all his way or no way.
He’s now set a date for his wedding and DD is stressed about it, he’s having her as best man, again treating her like a mate. She told him it is going to be hard seeing her dad get remarried and he told her he felt like she’d punched him in the stomach and why couldn’t she just support him? So that’s her dad and we’re never going to be on the same page because he’s a selfish, self absorbed, attention seeking twat.

OP posts:
QueenBing · 30/04/2024 21:40

Oh and just to add, underwear wise she wears the Oddballs crop tops with the boxers designed for women. Her dad bought her men’s boxers once and I said how they weren’t practical, she needs a gusset to fit a pad in when she’s on her period. His response was not to pay his half of a D of E payment because he’d spent the money on boxers. This is what I’m up against with him. There’s no reasoning to be had.

OP posts:
QueenBing · 30/04/2024 21:48

Sorry, another one, I’m a secondary school teacher so I’ve seen lots of pupils think they’re trans and have name changed and identified as their preferred gender throughout school only to leave school and realise it was a mistake. If it’s truly what she wants and it’s the right decision for her I will fully support her in her transition but at 14 and having experienced family trauma, mental health issues, bullying and possibly being autistic, I just don’t think it’s the right decision to affirm anything at the moment. She’s vulnerable and still working out who she really is and the hormones are running wild. She’s still a child.

OP posts:
GatherlyGal · 30/04/2024 21:50

She's got a lot going on @QueenBing and it looks like dad has found a way to undermine you and curry her favour all at once.

Sounds like lines of communication are open and you can talk to her about dangers of binding etc so that is great.

Dad making her is best man is interesting. A huge amount of attention and plenty of emotional blackmail as well - a lot for a 14 yo to handle.

QueenBing · 30/04/2024 21:57

GatherlyGal · 30/04/2024 21:50

She's got a lot going on @QueenBing and it looks like dad has found a way to undermine you and curry her favour all at once.

Sounds like lines of communication are open and you can talk to her about dangers of binding etc so that is great.

Dad making her is best man is interesting. A huge amount of attention and plenty of emotional blackmail as well - a lot for a 14 yo to handle.

It’s so much for her to handle. Too much in my opinion. He’s marrying the woman he was having the affair with which ended our marriage and broke our family apart so of course it’s going to be hard for her. He is absolutely currying favour with her and they’ve had a very strained relationship since we split including him blanking her for 3 weeks last year over the 6 week summer holiday. Affirming her male identity is an easy win for him.

OP posts:
GatherlyGal · 01/05/2024 14:27

QueenBing · 30/04/2024 21:57

It’s so much for her to handle. Too much in my opinion. He’s marrying the woman he was having the affair with which ended our marriage and broke our family apart so of course it’s going to be hard for her. He is absolutely currying favour with her and they’ve had a very strained relationship since we split including him blanking her for 3 weeks last year over the 6 week summer holiday. Affirming her male identity is an easy win for him.

I know she is being seen by CAMHS but when that finishes if she would be open to talking to someone it might really help her. You do need to check up front that they will listen to you on the gender front. CAMHS going straight in with male name and pronouns is typical but unhelpful.

Once they pin things on gender then everything else that might be going on can get ignored. Crazy really as it can be pretty clear that the gender is a symptom not the cause. In my experience once gender comes up the freight train charges on and everyone loses any ability to think critically or look at a bigger picture.

Symbiota · 03/05/2024 20:49

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CoralPanda · 04/05/2024 00:36

She needs serious mental health treatment if you don’t nip this in the bud she will end up mutilating herself

izzydrizzy04 · 18/07/2024 23:25

compromise with a minimising sports bra for now, make sure "she"? isn't wearing it all the time

DaMamaBear · 04/08/2024 13:52

This is not the place to ask this question I'm afraid as you are only being given advice based on misinformation and prejudices. It is heartbreaking seeing the answers on here. There has been no empirical evidence to say binding is harmful as long as it is done carefully and less than 8 hours a day. Please understand that just because you gave birth to your child, this does not give you autonomy over their body and mind.

Leafstamp · 08/08/2024 19:07

DaMamaBear · 04/08/2024 13:52

This is not the place to ask this question I'm afraid as you are only being given advice based on misinformation and prejudices. It is heartbreaking seeing the answers on here. There has been no empirical evidence to say binding is harmful as long as it is done carefully and less than 8 hours a day. Please understand that just because you gave birth to your child, this does not give you autonomy over their body and mind.

Do you have the empirical evidence to back up your claims?

For OP or anyone who comes across this thread, the studies here may be of interest. statsforgender.org/category/binding/

DaMamaBear · 08/08/2024 19:28

Leafstamp · 08/08/2024 19:07

Do you have the empirical evidence to back up your claims?

For OP or anyone who comes across this thread, the studies here may be of interest. statsforgender.org/category/binding/

Why do you get to decide your random internet page is empirical evidence? I would say to OP that you should consider ditching the tape and buying actual binders that would be a lot better as you can choose the strength of them. This is something you should discuss with your child as I think the more you try to fight this, the bigger an issue it could become. A binder worn for less than 8 hours a day has not been proven to cause harm and has not done so to my child for the last 4 years of their life.

Sheri99 · 08/08/2024 21:05

QueenBing, take a huge deep breath and relax. I have four adult children, two boys and two girls. I have a lot of experience with this child/blooming/confusing sexuality stage all kids experience and have been divorced. Too bad it doesn't come with a manual on how to navigate it - along with divorce.

First, the word "homoPHOBIC" is a ridiculously nonsensical word made up by people who can't find a better word to throw whatever anger, guilt and or blame they are experiencing on to another. It is a word wherein they try to assign a psychiatric diagnosis to, when the person who is simply turned off or has an "ewww" response, due to biology, when they see same sex persons fondling or having sex each other. CURIOUS and turned off does not equal a PHOBIA.

Second, I had a sister who was my father's "son". The girl could throw a baseball like a boy, was first a mail carrier for the USPostalService, then became a mechanic. Those were all done after puberty. She married another woman when she was 35. So I kind of understand and have empathy for those who tend toward the same sex. I love her to death and she is a terrific person, I have experienced how others have behaved out of their curiosity and or their ignorance; none of the people where afraid (as in homophobic) of her!

Third, growing up I wanted to be a boy between the ages of 8 and 15. Why? Because BOYS got to do cool things! They got to take auto mechanics (I am mechanically inclined)and woodshop in high school, they got to get into the military, they got to make more MONEY, they could do MATH so easily!!

Fourth, I wanted to be a boy because my STEP father was abusing me and I rationalized (rightly) that if I were a boy instead of a girl he would do so.

Fifth, one of my sons at age 14 became friends with a boy in high school who wore skirts and makeup. The child's parents allowed this boy to do this. My son befriended this young man in skirts and within 90 days my son THOUGHT he was homosexual. I simply looked at my son when he brought home this mixed up kiddo friend, and told him how kind he was to befriend his mixed up friend, but sexual relationships of whatever gender were not allowed before age 18 in our home. The relationship ended within a few weeks. The mixed up friend was in the middle of a parent split up that was a mess and no attention was being paid to the child, and one of the estranged parents encouraged their child's confusion and angst while the mother was saying "No", this isn't going to go in my house, as this is a mixed up KID and not an adult over 18-21. I do not know what happened to this mixed up boy who was a flash in my son's life. However, I DO know what happened to my son: he is as male as he can be and has had numerous girlfriends, no other boyfriends to my knowledge, and is now married with a baby on the way at age 29. He laughs with me saying "All I wanted was to have sex and I was too afraid of girls at that age and he was willing..but honestly, Mom, I just needed a friend too, as you and Dad were going through your divorce and everything was upsidedown".

Sixth, one of my daughters at age 13-14 decided she was "bisexual". I asked her why she felt this way. She says: "Because I love everyone and think women's bodies are lovely!". This daughter was an artist. Went to an art and science based high school and then became an artist, working as an illustrator for video games, making more money than most men these days. She had had classes in art high school (and later art college) sketching nudes of women; so she actually looked at the human body as "art". So I told her, "I think most women think a woman's body is beautiful, I do; but I also think men's bodies are beautiful too, don't you?" She affirmed she thought that men's bodies were also beautiful. This daughter was sandwiched between two brothers, and was the third born. She is now married, owns horses and chickens. When we have spoken of her "younger thoughts"...she tells me she decided she liked men better once she turned 15-16 and her "boobs" finally grew in.

Sorry this is so long, but when a child between 7-16 are also seeing parents in divorce the dynamics of home change terribly. The age of 10-16 are the worst part of growing up and kids - UNLESS they are given STRONG leadership and boundaries will do all sorts of very very strange things. Even without divorce, kids will do all sorts of REALLY screwy things either for attention, or for feeling "loved", or in a place they may "belong", or for feeling power in a situation where hormones make them feel out of control.

An ex who does the opposite of what you would do is the reason you got divorced in the first place. Let him flop around as all he is doing is trying to get you upset and pull power plays - exactly what mine did, until I blew him off and simply didn't speak with him. If he wasn't a jerk you would still be married to him.

YOU be the strong one for your daughter. Take the tape away and talk to her about it and how she is feeling. Explain to her she can do whatever she wants, make her own choices and conclusions, after she is 18 years old. Explain to her you are responsible for her in every way while she is living under your roof and or until she is 18. Tell her she was born her daughter, she is a girl and that growing up is very very confusing, divorce is confusing; take her time. I would not allow her overnights with girls or boys, period. She is too young and you need to be the leader for a very confused and difficult period in her YOUNG life.

Seventh (sorry): I have taken children to psychiatrists, psychologists and all they have done (99%) is nothing. You know your child better than ANYONE, do not doubt your instincts.

Good luck, hang in there. This will be but a memory too soon.

DaMamaBear · 09/08/2024 09:44

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Leafstamp · 09/08/2024 10:17

@DaMamaBear The ‘random internet page’ I provided is fully referenced and links to the underlying published scientific studies, eg https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33542145/

Are you saying that that this isn’t empirical evidence?

I’m sorry that your child may have harmed themselves (even if that harm has not yet revealed itself as per the above study) but please spread unevidenced information that could harm others.

Time to First Onset of Chest Binding-Related Symptoms in Transgender Youth - PubMed

Although many symptoms emerge quickly, others can take years to develop. Individuals and their clinicians can use this information to make informed decisions on how to structure binding practices and top surgery timing while meeting goals related to ge...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33542145

Leafstamp · 09/08/2024 10:20

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@DaMamaBear

Im reporting your post for citing suicide. This is false and dangerous rhetoric as explained by Professor Louis Appleby.

Link to his report in this thread x.com/proflappleby/status/1817201723217227796?s=46

Gizlotsmum · 09/08/2024 11:07

Our daughter came out as trans in May. We are using his preferred name and going at his pace ( so letting him decide who knows, when he wants counselling etc.) I did get cross when I found out he had a binder but that was because he hadn’t discussed it rather than because he had one. I would let him know what you have found and have a discussion around it.

ZingyZebra · 09/08/2024 12:17

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Leafstamp · 09/08/2024 12:26

Gizlotsmum · 09/08/2024 11:07

Our daughter came out as trans in May. We are using his preferred name and going at his pace ( so letting him decide who knows, when he wants counselling etc.) I did get cross when I found out he had a binder but that was because he hadn’t discussed it rather than because he had one. I would let him know what you have found and have a discussion around it.

Genuine question, what do you or your daughter think it means to be trans?