DC 13 desperate to take puberty blockers

[SobranieCocktail]

I'm not sure how much backstory to put here, but DC13 (biologically male) has been "gender non-conforming" from a very early age. This was a non-issue for us until late primary school at which point she became aware of transgenderism, and asked for people to use female pronouns. She is now at high school, and is treated to all intents and purposes as female (I should add that DH and I have had serious reservations about this, and have tried to slow down the social transitioning, but our influence feels neglible in comparison to the "affirmative" approach of schools and peers).

DC has brought up the possibility of having puberty blockers a couple of times, and last night it came to a head. I know DC is scared of the changes that puberty will bring, and DH and I want to support her as best as we can, but she literally won't listen to what we have to say, and why we're not going to go down the route of puberty blockers. I am as sure as I can be that the best option for DC is to go through puberty, and to transition when older (if she still wants to, which I think she almost certainly will). However, DC has started to say that she would rather be dead than go through a male puberty, and of course this terrifies me. We have tried to get DC to see a counsellor, but she also refuses this.

Just to add, DC also has ADHD, which is significantly hampering our ability to have a calm and "mature" discussion. It also gives further weight to our reluctance to start puberty blockers, as DC already has a delay in brain maturity (executive function, emotional regulation etc), and from what I understand puberty blockers would further delay/exacerbate this.

I just feel very stuck when I am sure that puberty blockers would cause more damage than help, yet DC is feeling despairing (and possibly suicidal) about going through puberty, and it feels so impossible to discuss it.

I'd use the councillor as a carrot stick.

Say that once they start puberty blockers they cannot reverse this.

That before you can be sure as parents what is right for you to do they need to agree to engage in counselling.

Then find one without a trans agenda.

Once they are older they can decide for themselves and you can explain this to them.

There is an increased incidence of transgender ideology amounts the neurodiverse and that's why I absolutely would be going down the therapy route first. Doesn't mean they truly aren't transgender but I'd want to explore other possible reasons for the, hating the thought of male puberty.

And fwiw the school cannot use alternative pronouns or socially transition a child without the parents permission so you don't have to allow this either.

Hoppinggreen · Today 13:48

Every time we read about one of these children they are ND, why is this link not talked about more? They are trying to understand why they are “different “ and think that it’s down to “being born in the wrong body” . It’s really not and I hope people realise this before irreversible damage is done

Exactly this, I think this is maybe an element of the realisation with Gids closing, what a huge percentage these children are, it will make a very damaging story down the line, and as you've put it here, they are trying to understand why they are “different “ and think that it’s down to “being born in the wrong body" this is all it is, a little maturing and self acceptance needed, and yet they are basically being experimented on

Im not sure thr NHS will prescribe puberty blockers any more do they?

as harsh as it sounds, kids are coached to threaten suicide if they don’t get PBs. I’d get your child off social media and into physical hobbies and maybe some volunteering

I'm sorry but at 13 how does he know about puberty blockers and all the rest of it. Yes they're exposed to stuff at school but clamp down on the social media / internet access and show him a bit of I am Zazz for a wake up call.

I would be doing everything I could to stop them taking puberty blockers, without destroying your relationship in the process. Why not point them to real life examples, eg Jazz Jennings, who has been through the whole process, only to realise they don't have enough material to create a fully functioning neo-vagina and will never have any sexual function (never experience orgasm)? It might be too much for your DC to contemplate, but then they really should not be going through such a permanent process until they are fully aware of all that it could entail.
Yes, agree, there could be a good chance that your son is gay and he could turn out to live a happy life as a gay man if he holds off on the 'trans pathway'.

@ppassport123 Thank you, that's really helpful. I will look up the Cass review ..

I agree that looking at Jazz Jennings would be a bit if a reality check for your child.

Jazz has had at least 4 operations to sort their botched sex reassignment surgery (partly to do with the fact that there wasnt enough tissue there to start with because of the puberty blockers, see also Susie Greens child), does not have proper sexual function and its highly likely never will, has serious weight issues partly from mental health issues and probably also partly from a completely fucked endocrine system, and has a mother who has to remind them to use their dilator and threatens to wake them up in middle of the night if they have forgotten to do it and do it for them.

Actually some of it probably isn't even appropriate to discuss with a 13 year old which is exactly why 13 year olds shouldn't be having puberty blockers in the first place. They cannot possibly understand the long term consequences.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

You make a really good point. My Dd is ASD. She gets electively mute under stress. She told me she was gay at Christmas. Shortly after I got a call from. School saying 'hed shared he was trans'. I talked to my child & said that it was really important to find out 'who they were & how they fit in / relate to the world' but it takes a looong time, & there is no rush. I told her I was proud of her & I loved her. Its hard not to worry though- she's about 10, emotionally. She goes to a hobby club, has 2 friends & a dog she adores. Its enough to for her to process as it is.

Would family therapy be an option? Even if DC won't go to 1-to-1 counselling, maybe you could all talk about your ideas about sex and gender, where your ideas about what being a boy and being a girl mean come from. If your child thought you were going along with the social transition, it's natural there would be anger when they think you are the one putting up barriers now, even though in reality it's more that the evidence is just not convincing for puberty blockers actually helping.

maybe you could all talk about your ideas about sex and gender, where your ideas about what being a boy and being a girl mean come from

I think the trouble is the kids know what the parents think, and what they're going to say, so it just becomes more proof that it's us and them/solidifies the tribal element

How very difficult.
I think you have shown your child huge support and love.
What/how do they want to look/present (in their imagination) when they are older? If you think their trans identity will persist there are good role models out there of strong confident successful transwomen. Many of whom have gone through male puberty. Blockers aren't essential or necessary.
There may be aspects of transition hampered by puberty but there are aspects that are not.
Puberty isn't easy for the majority of teens and this won't be an immediate fix.
There's increasing evidence in several countries that these drugs do more harm than good. I think Sweden, which had been a pioneer in this field has announced their doctors will no longer prescribe these drugs.

is he gay?

just asking as transitioning may be seen by some as a more societally acceptable way of ‘managing’ any anticipated or internalised homophobia. Sorry if that’s clumsily worded but hopefully you get my gist.

I wonder if offering reassurance around his sexuality might help?

I dont think there is asatisfactory answer to this. Personally I would not allow my child to take this kind of drug at that young age. It is especially difficult in this situation as she has been living as female all this time and now because of bodily changes this will be more problematic.

I am not an expert OP but you sound like a wonderful parent.

I have no experience with this, however I am experiencing infertility with my partner who currently has azoospermia (no sperm) likely due to a blockage. This journey and countless hours of research on sperm has opened my eyes up to how easy it is for male sperm to be impacted from a young age (undescended testes, injury, hormones etc).

I am assuming that hormone blockers would be a big impact on irreversible sperm damage? Could you perhaps explain that by waiting until they are are 18 they could then freeze sperm prior to transition to ensure they can still have a biological child? Otherwise they risk impacting their future sperm production. Being so young she probably has not thought about this and it may persuade her to wait, if she has visions of a future family.

Thanks for the responses. I'm reading and digesting!

I feel like we've tried to be really open with DC through all of this, and have with every "social transitioning" step have made our concerns and reservations very clear.

I think DC probably will be gay, or could be bi. She actually described herself as "pansexual" when she was 12 (vocab learned at school 🤔), but scoffed at me the other day when I brought this up in the context of mixed sex sleepovers, and now only likes boys ("OMG mum, that was LAST YEAR!"...🤦). Tbh though, DC is as I've said both mentally and physically quite immature, and I don't really think any sexuality can really be declared at this point!

In answer to the poster who wondered why I was sure she'd persist with transitioning, that's a good question. I guess I'm not really sure, and know that a majority of gender questioning kids end up happy in their bodies, but DC has been so adamant about "wanting to be a girl" for such a long time, that it's hard to imagine it changing.

Reminding them of “ ("OMG mum, that was LAST YEAR!"...🤦)”. May be a very important part of any conversation you have.

Indeed.

But in the context of what some young people are doing to their bodies, with adults blindly encouraging them, 'OMG mum that was LAST YEAR!' is actually quite terrifying isn't it?

You sound like a great Mum OP, your DC is lucky to have you.

I haven't read the linked article but this thread might be of interest OP.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4637908-academic-article-on-the-dutch-protocol-puberty-blockers-etc-by-michael-biggs

Wanting to be a girl - when still a child - and medically/surgically transitioning are two very different things. Being a gender non-conforming child can be really tough, but being an adult gay man can be really fun! It's how to get there, though.

I'm going to say something you may perceive as harsh now. I find it strange that you use she pronouns for your child on here, not in front of them, where you are saying you were somewhat sceptical even about social transition and were drawn along by the rush to affirm from school and outside influences. I don't know how you can get your head straight about the reality of male puberty that is knocking on your door right now with this cognitive dissonance going on. Are you sure you haven't been afraid to be the bad guy by standing firm with your child about where reality lies?

I am not in your position though and I know the whole environment in Scotland is oppressive and your profession is under pressure too. I of course do not know what I would really have done in that position so I am sorry if this is very unhelpful.

I don't know if you've read this article before OP. www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

It's basically about the harm of social transitioning children. They're all fine when they're little because pretend. It's hardly surprising they become distressed when puberty starts. The whole fiction of their lives is laid bare.

Disconnect him from the internet, move to a rural area surrounded by wilderness and make him spend his time DOING things and connected to the natural world, not surrounded by tech and incessant talking about ideas and navel gazing

This is extremely important for children with ADHD, connection to animals and the natural world is in itself a "treatment"

This transgenderism fad is already bursting, if you let him get sucked into it in its dying days his future outlook will be very grim.

Radical action is needed to protect children from a radically dysfunctional society. I don't totally blame parents who aren't up to the task, but this is the real advice you need.

God bless.

(From a woman with ADHD who almost became a "trans man" and now lives in the country)