trans daughter / gender dysporia - how to support without affirming?

[whoshouldItalkto]

For the last year my 13-year-old daughter has been saying she is trans and has gender dysphoria. She says she does not feel her body and voice belong to her, and she should have a male physique.

I want to take a watchful waiting approach and do not want an affirmative approach or for her to socially or medically transition at this stage. However, her distress is real, and she needs support. There seems to be a real gap for this. I have read helpful advice from the Bayswater group and Transgender Trend, but there seem very few professionals that will work with a child without affirming - I was recommended one but they were £200 / hour and made it clear it was a long term commitment! She spoke to a non-specialist counsellor for a while but did not find it useful.

I keep the lines of communication open, talk to her, discuss things, try to build her confidence etc. but really feel she needs more. She's not particularly unhappy a lot of the time (has good friends, we have a good relationship, doing well at school etc.) but the gender dysphoria is definitely bubbling under and can cause her acute distress.

Has anyone got any other ideas of how I can support her, or could suggest a more affordable counselling option that would be suitable? Does anyone acknowledge and support gender dysphoria without the assumption that the treatment is transitioning?

My daughter is hard work but I'm pretty sure at 12 she hasn't a clue what she is yet. I've no idea how to deal with the non binary issue but all I know is, is that she is a different person around her friends, they all her by her non binary name and refer to her as 'they' She accepts that I won't do this and seems to want to keep it a secret from other family members, which in my mind, means she isn't sure or that it's a fad at school? I welcome any information or advice. I really don't know what is going on with society at the moment and am blaming blinking social media!!

@SHA501

You will get support over on the feminist board if you start a new thread there.

Or you could have a look at this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4398790-Year-10-daughter-advice-please-non-binary

Very glad to read this thread having spent a second long day in A&E with my suicidal 14 year old - previously sunny and well balanced but in the past year has radically changed looks to short hair and blokeish clothes and online has a male persona I am told.

The link between undiagnosed unrecognised autism and gender dysmorphia seems to be key as I've had suspicions that they might be for a while. Overwhelmed easily by things and stimming.

Any clues on how to proceed? I'm fixing her up with a counsellor but would prefer to choose one who has right skills and approach.

Autism diagnosis would that be done through the GP? Would it help?

Of course they're a different person around their friends, the people who actually accept and respect them. They don't want to tell the family because they fear the reactions, maybe even just dismissiveness like yours. Maybe "non binary" is a part of their exploration, maybe that's who they are.But even if it's a phase, they won't forget how you ignored their naming requests and belittled them ("She hasn't a clue what she is yet"). That shadow will always stand between you.

The fact you blame your child's gender identification on social media is hilariously stereotypical of ignorant moms.

My 14 year old daughter has told me she wants to be known as he/him and have a male name. Her friends already know and support this, one is non-binary and another has a brother who has recently given birth, TWAW etc. She was diagnosed with ASD at 8. I have gently discussed the high rates of girls on the spectrum wanting to be male gender and suggested maybe because she is surrounded by transgender chat she is thinking being trans is the answer to why she doesn't feel comfortable with herself. She says she doesn't want to change herself, just being called she/her/name makes her really upset. She is very controlling and demand avoidant so I do wonder whether this is something she feels she can control. I have tried to get to the bottom of why having a different identity/label would her happier but she can't explain in a way I can understand. I don't know know what to do.

@BeanCounterBabe It sounds like he knows he is on the spectrum already. Yes, more trans people are autistic than the general proportion, that doesn't mean you can't be both. He has a hard time explaining why the different label makes him feel comfortable because it's ultimately just that: a feeling. You can't logically explain every feeling.
Whether your child turns out trans or cis, they'll never forget how you chose to respond to their sincere requests. If he asked you to use he/him pronouns, you should do it. It costs you very little, but clearly means a lot to him. If you don't, he'll see he can't be open about his feelings and trust your support. Even if he discovers he's cis, this will have done irreparable damage to your relationship.

I didn't want to read without comment. First of love and support to your both. In a very similar situation I took an approach that I was 100% with her (my dd) against any and all sexist bullshit. I was terribly sorry but not terribly surprised that the sexist bullshit had made her uncomfortable. That it seemed to me that messages that you were 'cis' if and only if you were 'comfortable' with the sexist messages and stereotypes girls and women were bombarded with did not match terribly well with my experience of girls going through puberty, many who whom were often extremely uncomfortable. That, so far as I was concerned the word "girl" meant nothing beyond human child who is female and that there were no clothes she was obliged to wear, or feel comfortable wearing. No clothes she could not wear because she was a girl. As her mother I was happy to support her in wearing whatever clothes made her feel most safe and comfortable. That there was no haircut girls had to have or haircut that girls couldn't want, and as her mother within the bounds of school dress code I was happy for her to have whatever haircut. Because the idea that boys hair must look like this and girls hair must look like this is sexist bullshit (in my opinion) and I would pick her over sexist bullshit every day of the week. But equally I wouldn't be agreeing to anything I considered harmful or damaging including pretending that she wasn't a girl as there were areas where the sex and biology of a person mattered and the world remained quite a sexist place where the needs and requirements of girls and women could be ignored with impunity meaning that it was important that we could talk about things to do with her body frankly and honestly (in private) and I needed to teach her to be able to speak up for her needs and boundaries as she got older. So far it seems to be going well and I would say our relationship is strong and dd is a lot happier. Lots of new clothes, including new school uniform, which I know not everyone can do on demand but it helped. My dd came out as a lesbian shortly after.

I did find www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/ to be sensible and helpful

@toastfairy "messages that you were 'cis' if and only if you were 'comfortable' with the sexist messages and stereotypes girls and women were bombarded with"
That's not what being cis means. Read up before speaking on a sensitive issue. You don't have a right to an opinion, you have a right to an informed opinion.

I assure you that my opinion is well informed and that is exactly what I have seen it phrased as, it is also in line with my daughters (admittedly probably quite superficial) understanding of the issue as she was explaining how she wasn't comfortable with being thought of as a girl.

I find my problem is I remember far too well what different people have said, and it is admittedly often mutually contradictory. And what "no-one is saying that!!!" has been repeatedly exactly what other people are saying.

"Nonbinary gender might be for you if you:
resonate with any of the above... {above which includes "Many people who are nonbinary reject gender roles and the rigid expectations and perceptions attached to them."}

don’t identify with the sex-based categories or gender expectations assigned to you" https://www.healthline.com/health/am-i-non-binary#definition

That was like a 1 minute google to find someone saying that on an authoritative looking site. I certainly accept that this is an area where not everyone agrees and these words change meanings often, and are often defined and explained very differently by different people.

If I believed that this system of classifying people was true and an improvement I would also be nb. I do not.

stonewall glossary includes the word comfortable

non-binary: An umbrella term for people whose gender identity doesn’t sit comfortably with ‘man’ or ‘woman’.

So, at least in some girls, declaring "I'm nb" may be recognising that sex stereotypes don't apply to you and feeling deeply uncomfortable with the fact that your boobs are growing.

I'm still struggling with my now nearly 13 year old. I try as best as I can to ignore the issue in the hope it is a phase that she will simply out grow...

I'd just advise to love her as best as you can, spend as much time with her as she'll let you. Listen and ask questions, listen to her answers, ask follow up questions. Let her know that she can ask you questions too and that she can rely on you to be honest. And that because she needs to know that she can trust you to be honest you won't pretend to believe things that you don't. Focus on making your relationship as strong as possible. Explain that people on the internet say stuff some of it you agree with but some of it is sexist and homophobic so you've seen stuff you don't agree with too. Tell her it's always important to think for herself. Tell her this stuff in private not in front of her friends. <3

@oxalisRed sorry to jump on but could I have the link/list of resources too please? I have name changed for this and a thread I started a few days ago about my 13yr old son

My daughter 13 is also claiming to be trans. I fully admit I'm rubbish at dealing with this. I think it's come from social media. I am burying my head in the sand at the moment hoping it will pass as a phase. Should I be seeking a counsellor for her/him to see if there's underlying issues? Please help

@SHA501 I wouldn't panic. But do take steps to address the social media influence. To some extent you are right to think/hope it will pass as a phase, but best to take steps to make sure she doesn't become further influenced by people you don't want influencing her.

I would have a look here : www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/resources/

and : www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/toptentips/

Counselling can be helpful if you think there are underlying issues but sadly many counsellors do not always take a balanced approach (too quick to affirm the child's claims) and are not aware of the latest findings, eg from Dr Cassm who has said that social transition is 'not a neutral act'.

www.transgendertrend.com/cass-review-interim-report/

Good luck x

I appreciate that you're approaching this with care.

I do not envy your position. As a bi man, I will say that it's become increasingly apparent to me that, for want of a better term, "wokeness" is a set of cultish beliefs that does not accept compromise or even passive approval. Either you must express vociferous and unwavering support of the party line, else be ostracized or labelled as uninformed at best, or morally bankrupt at worst.

Unfortunately, simply suggesting that gender dysphoria exists, but that transitioning may not be the most psychologically healthy or therapeutic 'treatment' is an affront to deep-seated sensibilities because it implies what everybody knows: in every other context if somebody has a mental illness involving delusion or psychosis (schizophrenia, body dysmorphia, some EDs etc.), we do not placate the delusion but seek to rewire or medicate the mind to accurately reflect reality. We don't affirm an anorexic's perception of being overweight while empirical evidence shows her or him as being dangerously underweight; and copious amount of cosmetic surgery is not a healthy treatment for somebody with body dysmorphia, even if it superficially "affirms" their beliefs and prescribes a "remedy" for "presenting" the desired way.

Essentially, the more she believes the above, the more compromise will be virtually impossible because again, anything besides outright vocal affirmation is seen as bigoted and reprehensible. Wish I had a suggestion, but I think you're in for a slog if it truly isn't just a phase.

Hello can I join in too.
DD decided she was a boy at about 14. School very quick to adopt her new name even suggested it went on her exam results . I think this caused massive stress as she wasn't really ready and was perhaps hiding from exams as she is dyslexic and suspects she has adhd.
I bought her boys colthes and took her to the barber, all fine.
She's been seeing a lot of a person who is a them/they over the summer. llincluding a lot of sleepovers and all I know is that she/he has alcohol problems and the mum hides vodka and is always drunk apparently.
Finally DH has persuaded her / him to stay at ours.
I'm not there but DH was a bit surprised to meet them, they have wierd facial hair and DH is concerned that she's had some hormone treatment. He's concerned that this means she has a lot going on and DD is a bit too helpful and may be trying to help. Or they may be dating.He says her and DD have been really rude and he is getting a ' if you don't like me you're against me ' vibe but they are actually quite unpleasant. I get that she will be rude as she is being cool. I'm just worried, like you all are that DD is jumping in too quickly. DD asked me to sign something that meant she could go to some counseling day in a forest thing. Which was a suprise. I've been reassured that it's better she is asking for help. I called and the counseling service seem ok, they have a special lbgt bit that seems concering. I can't help thinking what is normal is being blown out of all proportion and causing a lot of unnecessary stress.but now they are suggesting family counseling. Agh. Will find out more on Monday .

Bunnyfluffles - can I ask how old your DD is? How long have you had this going on?

Hi @Bunnyfluffles that sounds tough for you. If school have enthusiastically affirmed her without both careful consideration and close consultation with you then they have definitely gone awry. (That they have affirmed her at all is highly questionable).

If any of this has happened since the Cass Interim report earlier this year then even worse. And if they continue to 'help' her transition next term then that's worse still, given what the Attorney General said in her speech recently.

As for the counselling, yes it is good if she can get help for her distress but I think you're right to be concerned about the 'special lgbt' bit. It shouldn't be this way, but way too many of these type of organisations are far too pro-affirmation.

I'd recommend having a good look around the organisation's website and social media accounts for clues of their approach.

This is so hard... my DD is still being so difficult. I've recently remarried and she is being very difficult. She's very rude and I'm sure deliberately winds DH up by wearing his clothes. She still wants to be he. She seems to also have recently developed all sorts of sensory issues? Sounds, material textures, and crowds of people. It is a nightmare to take 'him' anywhere. I think she/he wants me to think he/she's autistic? She's always been a bit on tge spectrum but it seems to have escalated with the transgender announcement?? Should I take her/him to the GP?

Oh gosh sha501 I think I would quite calmly say, wed better go for a check upwhich might be enough to help her calm down. If you do make it to the GP that might be useful too of course. Maybe also chat to the GP on your own?
Hugs.

I've just spoken to her and she says she doesn't have anxiety so therefore doesn't need help. I have am appointment for myself tomorrow so will talk with gp about her tomorrow. She is so rude at the moment. She doesn't like my husband and I don't think is too keen on me at the moment either. All I do is try and keep the peace but she is really testing me at the moment 😭

I was the daughter of a mother who remarried someone I didn't like. It was hell. I'm sure it was horrible for my mother and stepfather too. Life is messy.

I think, in many cases, the 'trans' stuff is a distraction from other issues.

I know that Teenagers are also identifying as having mental health issues and disorders. Sometime they genuinely have these issues and other times they don't (having autist traits is quite different from having autism and being 'a bit OCD' is quite different from suffering with actual OCD).

I think talking things through with the GP is a wise move, though do be alert if they start pandering to trans identities in children. Take your time with the GP, don't feel rushed and if you don't feel more positive/relieved/relaxed/empowered after the appointment make another one with a different doctor.