Non-binary daughter

[JustDanceAddict]

My daughter has recently come out as non-binary. Announced it on social media and that’s how I found out - accidentally!
Now I’m trying to understand it all a bit more. They are keeping their birth name but want them/their pronouns. They don’t seem to have an issue w female bodily functions like periods. Wears make up but in an ‘alternative’ way. Refers to self as ‘sister’ to her sibling.
The most I’ve got out of them is that they don’t want to be seen as a woman (they are 18) and def does not want to be a man (which am relieved about as thought of hormones etc scares me shitless).
They have some MH issues too, have friends who are trans:Nb and generally ‘alternative’.
I suppose my wish is that it’s a phase in their life and when things settle generally they may revert back to a more female presentation. I think it’s probably tied up with some issues around how women are perceived in society, but they won’t fully tell me so am guessing!
DH is just not acknowledging it at all and thinks it’ll go away! DS is prob of same thought so I’m the only family member trying to understand it all.
I suppose I’m
Posting to see if anyone else in same position with an essentially adult child (at uni) and where did it go for them (or even if you were that person).
I’m not very girly at all and would live in leggings and hoodies permanently if I could (so I do understand the pressure of being a woman) but I still feel v much female and want to be seen as that gender, so it’s more than that for them.

I think you just have to wait it out and go along with it. Sounds like shes just trying it out. Mines NB too. I am always getting the pronouns wrong, but the name is easier.

They are keeping their name so that’s no issue here. I try not to use pronouns as It’s so odd saying ‘they’!!
I can’t say I really understand the thinking behind it, but I’m supportive and at the same time hoping it’s a short/lived thing of exploration!! I’m sure that’s v natural for a parent.

I think it's a response to the hideous expectations of feminity and the pornification of womanhood. Interesting that you don't feel you can live in leggings and hoodies even though that's your preference - we're all so pressured to look a certain way! I don't believe that gender identity is a thing, tbh, I believe I have a female body and a personality! Gender is a set of social expectations that we feel more or less comfortable with, so from my perspective we're all non binary, it's just the new way of saying "social stereotypes associated with men and women are oppressive nonsense"!

I'd be supportive and interested but also prepared for it to change over time.

Totally agree it’s due to expectations of femininity. They have never been ‘girly’, but it’s def more than that.
I’m def supportive and interested though snd will wait to hear more.

My 15 year old came out tonight and I am in bits! I have googled everything and am feeling lost and overwhelmed! My daughter is no matter of fact and wants us all to conform immediately. What if we can't/don't want to? The charity we spoke to tonight told us we just have to accept it. I am feeling like parents don't matter anymore...

bayswatersupport.org.uk/

You’ll get better advice here @YouOkayHunz

It’s a social contagion at this point and as others have said partly a trend and partly a rational reaction to the realization that misogyny is all around us and a desire to escape womanhood. Beware the mental health profession and your daughter potentially being convinced she’s trans as that can lead to early medicalization. Show positive, gender non conforming female role models.

Tbh I wouldn't consider claiming to be non binary 'coming out'. If she decided she was actually a boy then there'd need to be some chats but non binary is just 'I don't like being identified as a woman'.

Aye, pal good luck with that xD

This one is mostly a phase and will pass.
But it would be good to have lots of chats with her about things like internalised mysoginy.

When I was young I was probably the equivalent of many trans youth today (only without the social media to further influence) Largely because I didn't feel i identified with my female classmates. And because my boy friends said things like 'girls are bitchy/gossipy/always overreacting' so I felt it was wrong to want to be a girl. I hated my female body, I dressed masculine, I was not interested in boys or boy bands or girls toys. All the hallmarks.

Now I look back and realised that internalised mysoginy as a result of the people I was around and the overall societal view towards woman, played the biggest role.

But by the time I was 16, I was over it. Not necessarily comfortable in my body but what teen is? I definately didn't want to be a boy anymore. I feel for teens today as I suspect many of them are not trans but cannot escape once they get thr idea they might be, due to the influence of social media. There will be so many young girls detransitioning in a few years.

Anyway, I digress, try not to worry too much. Just do all you can can educate her on womens rights and struggles as much as possible. Because she is still biologically female and the world will see her as such whether she likes it or not and she will have certain things imposed on her and certain disadvantages as a result whether she wants them or not.

I'm sure your child will really appreciate it if you make the effort to use their chosen pronouns. Wait it out. It might be a phase, and if they do change their mind, great. But if they don't then you'll have to work to make this a permanent part of your life. You as a parent do not have any real control over, or idea of the way your child perceives their gender. Even if you're struggling to change your perception of your child in your head, respecting their pronouns is the least you can do. And, if they do decide to change their name, respecting that as well (even though it might be hard, and upsetting) is common courtesy, and will help them feel more comfortable around you.

You shouldn't drive a wedge between you and your child over something as simple as pronouns. Ultimately your child is still your child no matter their gender. A change in pronouns does not change their personality

I wanted to thank each and every one of you for coming online and replying to me. It's really amazing to see the support here. I
She came out as Pan Sexual a year ago but it was because her elder sister experimented with it (said sister is now 18 and straight with BF) and now she's a lesbian but non binary
That's cool, I said. She was certainly expecting a row and it didn't happen because I have no issues so tonight she's said she want to cut her hair, she has long hair at the moment, dyed red which I did for her when she asked me too, but not shot hai! Her words "think about the film "Bee movie" I am shocked and she seems to like my reaction. How do I say no to this? I can't handle all this right now! It's too much.

You don’t say no to it. It’s hair. It’s HER hair. She has a right to do what she wants with it. Plus, it sounds like she is trying really to provoke a reaction. I would bother reacting over a haircut.

Wouldn’t bother! Stupid phone.

We seem to have gone backwards to a time when girls wore stilettos and discussed make up, going shopping and did jobs that didn’t get their hands dirty.

Boys were the ones that drove big vans and did things that got their hands dirty and hated shopping and wouldn’t know one end of a lip brush from another

Then we worked hard to throw off those stereo types and now I am in my 60s I drive the big van, I wear steel toe capped boots and have the hard hat combats and hoodies to go with them

Now we seem to have gone back to thinking that only girls can wear pink and therefore if you like pink you must be a girl and if you enjoy wielding a pick axe and hate shopping you must be a boy and if those examples don’t reflect your sex then you must be trans.

How about you are a woman who likes to rip kitchens out or you are a man who enjoys fashion and a good skin care routine.

No one is removing choice. You don’t have to conform with an outdated stereotype

DD1's friends are all messing around with various gendery identities, and although they change quite regularly, most are adamant that 'this is who I am!' at each new iteration, but they're a bit younger than your DD.
DD1 is a bit more relaxed, understands the difference between sex, gender and sexuality; hence is content to be 'just' a tentative lesbian (a bit dull in her friendship group). She's witnessed her cousin medically transition and still be unhappy after initially coming out as trans as part of a trans-identifying group of girls at their secondary school 6 years ago, so is wary.
Speaking to friends with similarly aged DC, it seems really common for DC of secondary school age to be experimenting in this way. I'd take it easy if I were you, and keep communicating with her. Do educate yourself about the difference between sex and gender, and gender ideology and activism in general by reading around a bit so you can be a credible adult voice. As you suspect it may be a response to being a young woman in society, make yourself a sound feminist ally by reading some pro-woman feminist literature.

@YouOkayHunz Which charity did you speak to? Some useful groups are Bayswater Support Group, and Gender Dysphoria Support Network (Stella O'Malley), and Genspect have list if useful groups by country. See also Genspect generally, and their webinars, Transgender Trend.

I've only spoke to Mermaids so far and they are taking to me about forums for parents and our child. I wanted to get some honest all round advice that wasn't focused on the fact we have to accept it immediate or we are bad parents

@JustDanceAddict

Totally agree it’s due to expectations of femininity. They have never been ‘girly’, but it’s def more than that. I’m def supportive and interested though snd will wait to hear more.

Why do we have an expectation of femininity. A lot of girls aren’t feminine it doesn’t make them anything more than girls who like different things. Who is saying a child has to conform to being a certain way otherwise they have to make up a different label

I left school wanting to try different careers but at the time I couldn’t because I was a girl and the careers were for boys only

A few years later the doors opened up and 40 years on I drive what was considered a man’s vehicle, I do what was considered as a man’s job, and my clothes invariably come from the mens department.
I have been called trans and that I am lying to myself.
Definitely never considered myself as anything other than a woman who just wasn’t into make up, clothes, handbags or anything that was outwardly feminine.

Apparently according to the person who says I am trans, it is purely based on how I dress etc
When did your sexuality become governed by your fondness or lack of interest in handbags.

@YouOkayHunz In that case, definitely crucial you talk to a number of other groups - Bayswater Support Group are very good - email them with a brief summary and you will be added to their parents group where you can share, discuss, and get useful advice and information.
Also listen to this:
genspect.org/conferences/. - scroll down to the ROGD webinar

Transgender Trend and Safe Schools Alliance are also go-to sites for information

@Kennykenkencat It is ludicrous, isn't it, for anyone else to suggest you may be 'trans' - without you even realising! And by the suggestion, inferring you may not be enough if a woman. Insulting

*of a woman, not if

To those saying about perception of women-

I have to disagree. I think isles about wanting to be different and their idea of cool. And also copying friends.

You'd think if you rejected femininity you'd probably reject makeup too

Some very sensible advice on here. Last autumn my friends daughter announced she was trans. Said she wanted new name, pronouns etc.

Friend said to her daughter ‘we made you wait one year from saying you wanted to shave all your hair off. This is no different’.

Friend went into school and gave them the HARD WORD about not using new name and pronouns. She is not a woman to be dismissed. It’s a private school.

Fast forward 6 months and her DD had had her ears pierced and doesn’t talk much about being trans anymore. Is wearing feminine clothing again Etc.

It’s a contagion. Imagine if my friend had gone along with it?!

Everybody is non-binary

Having to conform to sex stereo types are long gone and we are able to act and dress as we please, we can get jobs in all different industries.

So she is a female, who is rejecting sex stereo types,it's no more complicated than that

My dd 18 and very high functioning autism has told me she is in an online relationship with a non binary female, is non binary herself and wants to be called a different name and not be referred to as 'she'. I am totally strugglng with this. I gave birth to 'her' and spent ages choosing her name. I just can't get used to calling her something different. She can call herself what she likes but I can't do this at home. I've told her I will struggle with this. I am so so sad about it too 😢. I know that's not cool to say but it's true

@Firstshoes Look at the useful links above and reach out for information and support.

You are very much not alone, and not taking up the offer to refer to your daughter by different pronouns or a different name, but reiterating your love for her and that she's perfect just as she is, is the right approach. Watchful waiting. She has a great deal of maturation to go through and neuro-diversity is even more to deal with, and a factor which is overly sensitive to gender identity ideology.