Non-binary daughter

[JustDanceAddict]

My daughter has recently come out as non-binary. Announced it on social media and that’s how I found out - accidentally!
Now I’m trying to understand it all a bit more. They are keeping their birth name but want them/their pronouns. They don’t seem to have an issue w female bodily functions like periods. Wears make up but in an ‘alternative’ way. Refers to self as ‘sister’ to her sibling.
The most I’ve got out of them is that they don’t want to be seen as a woman (they are 18) and def does not want to be a man (which am relieved about as thought of hormones etc scares me shitless).
They have some MH issues too, have friends who are trans:Nb and generally ‘alternative’.
I suppose my wish is that it’s a phase in their life and when things settle generally they may revert back to a more female presentation. I think it’s probably tied up with some issues around how women are perceived in society, but they won’t fully tell me so am guessing!
DH is just not acknowledging it at all and thinks it’ll go away! DS is prob of same thought so I’m the only family member trying to understand it all.
I suppose I’m
Posting to see if anyone else in same position with an essentially adult child (at uni) and where did it go for them (or even if you were that person).
I’m not very girly at all and would live in leggings and hoodies permanently if I could (so I do understand the pressure of being a woman) but I still feel v much female and want to be seen as that gender, so it’s more than that for them.

There was punk, then there was goth, then emo, now non binary. It's the latest thing for people struggling to fit in and conform.

Also avoid Mermaids like the plague!

Thank you for the advice. She's always struggled to fit in and doesn't have any real friends. I just can't get my head round this. I love her completely and want her to be happy but preferably away from the Internet

@Firstshoes Get onto Bayswater Support Group - they are lovely over there and will give you pointers.

My child began identifying as non-binary a year ago. I got over the shock relatively quickly and am fully supportive of their decision, but 12 months on, still struggle with the right pronouns. They get extremely annoyed when I use she/her pronouns by mistake, and all the spontaneity has gone out of our conversations as I have to run everything I say to her in my mind first before saying it out loud, to make sure I get the pronouns right. A real distance is growing between us, which fills me with despair. They are also self-harming and stressed about GCSEs. It doesn't help that I'm autistic too, maybe that's exacerbating my problems with getting the pronouns right? Life is never straight-forward, is it? Thanks for letting me rant.

I am sorry for the worries you are experiencing!
I agree with others that you should be as supportive as possible, educate yourself as much as possible, and continue to live your life and your family life as you always have (as “normally” as possible — ie without tying yourself in knots to accommodate your child’s current identity.) it is very likely your child is going through a phase, influenced by peers and internet, so the best way to be supportive is not to make NB the focus of your relationship but rather the usual “how was your day” “anything interesting at School?” “Could you lay the table please” “any plans for the weekend?” all as if life just goes on. Obviously, it is important to be atunes to your child’s moods and try to ascertain if there is any new stress or worry or unhappiness or even bullying which might require some intervention.
As for pronouns: I don’t understand how one is meant to respond when told about pronouns. In which context would you refer to your child in the third person? If your child is present, you would say “you” or use a given name but would not use third person — so perhaps you can skirt over the pronoun challenge for now.

Best wishes!

I'm so glad I found this thread! I have been getting used to using different pronouns but I'm really struggling with using a different name. It sounds so silly but my darling Ivy who adored pink dresses all her life, and make up etc, is now Oliver. I'm finding it really hard. I love them to bits, but it doesn't make it any easier

The danger in instantly conforming to their sudden wishes for a new name and new identity is, having changed name at home and school, announced to the world they are non-binary or trans, maybe started consulting a doctor, spent a ton of money on a new wardrobe, perhaps fought their parents in order to make them agree etc, if they change their mind, how embarrassing it then is to admit, no, I was wrong, forget all that, everybody. It makes it harder for them to do a 180.
If you don't make a drama out of it, just carry on as normal, keep their name, be pragmatic, vaguely throw out questions about why can't a female look like this or that, or feel this or that? Question the stereotypes. Then, if they do feel actually, they aren't non-binary etc there won't need to be so much backtracking.

“DH is just not acknowledging it at all and thinks it’ll go away!”

He’s probably right

@Tal45

There was punk, then there was goth, then emo, now non binary. It's the latest thing for people struggling to fit in and conform.

Yep

Just coming back to this post that I made last year.
I’m more confused than ever now.
DD still n:b, but now come out as gay. I have no issue with this, but it seems v abrupt to say ‘I’m a lesbian now’ after only going on a date with a guy a week or so ago. 🤷‍♀️
Can you be non/binary and a lesbian - as lesbian implies you are female.
Since last year DD is also pursuing an autism diagnosis which could be the root of all this as gender issues are endemic in the ASD community.

OP, you are doing great, its not easy to experience all this!

I wonder how many girls and women would naturally fall into what seems to be expected and accepted as girly.
I never understood the the girly magazines, make-up, hairstyles, going to hairdressers, sexy clothing, high heels in everyday life etc.

I have only recently learned a bit more about non-binary theme and this thread gave me more thoughts. I like the prospective that for a girl identifying herself/themselves as non-binary it might be a strong respond the the expectatations and pressures of society. I think in the UK this pressure is extremely high (I come from a post-communist country and it is different), which all the toys and clothes being boy/girl labeled and blue/pink with not much other colours. Its ridiculous that some young teen girls feel to anxious to go out of the house without make-up.

I never questioned my female identity but I know I dont fall into the above "typical female" box either.

@JustDanceAddict

Just coming back to this post that I made last year. I’m more confused than ever now. DD still n:b, but now come out as gay. I have no issue with this, but it seems v abrupt to say ‘I’m a lesbian now’ after only going on a date with a guy a week or so ago. 🤷‍♀️ Can you be non/binary and a lesbian - as lesbian implies you are female. Since last year DD is also pursuing an autism diagnosis which could be the root of all this as gender issues are endemic in the ASD community.

I wonder why is it so difficult for a parent to see a child going through such time? (A genuine thought, not having a go). Is your child happy in general? I'd say it shouldnt matter what they identify as as long as they are happy with it and find functional relationships.

Why is it difficult?
Because I think they are confused about gender/sexuality and aren’t particularly happy (prob due toundiagnosed ASD/ADD and now trying to get a diagnosis). There was no indicator they were gay up until v recently, in fact they had a mega crush on a male friend for about a year and recently was telling me about a date with a guy that went well.
I don’t really care who they date and I’d love them to find a nice partner, whatever their ‘status’.

I have a good friend who is gay and she was sad to find our a young female relative of hers is now gay because she has gone through a lot of heartache trying to have children with her partner and I think just struggled in life a bit being a gay woman.
Wouldn’t we all want our kids to have an easy ride in life?

@katepilar

OP, you are doing great, its not easy to experience all this!

I wonder how many girls and women would naturally fall into what seems to be expected and accepted as girly.
I never understood the the girly magazines, make-up, hairstyles, going to hairdressers, sexy clothing, high heels in everyday life etc.

I have only recently learned a bit more about non-binary theme and this thread gave me more thoughts. I like the prospective that for a girl identifying herself/themselves as non-binary it might be a strong respond the the expectatations and pressures of society. I think in the UK this pressure is extremely high (I come from a post-communist country and it is different), which all the toys and clothes being boy/girl labeled and blue/pink with not much other colours. Its ridiculous that some young teen girls feel to anxious to go out of the house without make-up.

I never questioned my female identity but I know I dont fall into the above "typical female" box either.

Oh I agree with that. It’s v much societal I am sure - and it’s not worse with social media etc. however, I’m def not girly but have never questioned my gender. Maybe it’s because when I was growing up there wasn’t so much of an emphasis on boys/girls toys and clothes etc. i think it’s a very complicated issue and probably can’t be explained away that easily

@katepilar The strong response would be for non girly girls to affirm they are girls, there is more than one way of being a girl and that they still qualify because they are a loving example of a biological girl. Feeling they should say they are a neutral thing because they don't conform to stereotypes is reinforcing the value of the stereotypes.
I have never felt girly, neither has my mum and my eldest dad. I like trucks and poker and beer and short hair and guns so I'm basically a redneck man if you want to judge me by stereotypes. I'm not. I'm a woman from Herts. I'm no less woman than a long-haired cat -loving, gin-swilling, romance-reading pta member. Society thinking that is where it's gone wrong. Don't encourage that train of thought, it's pretty limiting.

honestly, id just not get into discussion about it, except for the autism diagnosis obviously.

*living not loving
Loving too though, hopefully!

@katepilar What makes you assume happiness? I think there seems to be some misconception that a child struggling with identity is going to be much happier once theyve decided and affirming and validating this makes the child happy and everything is ok. These things dont necessarily correlate at all.

[quote Branleuse]@katepilar What makes you assume happiness? I think there seems to be some misconception that a child struggling with identity is going to be much happier once theyve decided and affirming and validating this makes the child happy and everything is ok. These things dont necessarily correlate at all.[/quote]
I agree. Changing your gender is not going to automatically make you happy, you need to look at underlying issues.
Dd is completely brainwashed into trans ideology, it’s quite scary! That worries me more than them
Being non-binary (which is innocuous in and of itself).

I'm so glad I found this thread. Last week I was informed my another parent that my DD had another name. To this I was all confused, but I was at work, so just told I'm I didn't have a clue what they where on about and carried on with my job.
Later that week while tidying my DDs room (DD is almost 14 and I'd had enough of the mess and smell otherwise I do not go in to the room) I found a pile of Christmas cards that said to the other name I was informed about.

Left it a few days before I asked about it, I didn't let her know of my disappointment to find out by others and not from her. If she had told me herself I'd probably get my head round thing easier.
She has said she lives a non binary life at school and with her friends, who half of them have done the same. Now I'm very open minded however I do not understand how a child who has not gone through puberty fully can really understand any of this.
I'm not handling this personally very well and feel like I have failed as a mother because she would rather live 2 separate lives. I'm at a total loss of how to approach this as I don't believe labeling yourself as something is healthy, why can't we all just be humans and not labeled by anything else. She claims she hates the pronouns been used for her but is happy to use them for anyone else (she's happy to use she/her/him/he towards anyone but we can't use them towards her) apparently pronouns are offensive.
Some of the advice on here is fantastic, thank you all.

There's a lot of secrecy around this. DD has several friends who are NB (born female) who use male/unisex names but only amongst their friends. Parents are in the dark. I know some of the parents and feel quite uncomfortable with knowing stuff about their children that they don't know but equally don't feel like I should disclose it either.
I really don't know if they will continue thinking and defining themselves in this way or if it is some kind of modern rite of passage!
Affirmation is not a neutral act, but many of these kids/young people are quite vulnerable and need the love and support of their families - even if they seem to be spoiling for fights over this.
My general feeling is to keep lines of communication open, support things like clothing, makeup and hair choices and make your own choices around names/pronouns.
Once that child is an adult it's really their decision.
I really struggle with talking about the NB girls with DD and using their preferred names, so we do tend to default to their other names in their absence or it does make for very stilted conversation! So I don't get it ' wrong' I don't tend to use their names or pronouns when speaking to them unless it's necessary and then I will use their preferred ones.

OP, and all the other mothers/parents writing about their NB children:
Respect their names and pronouns. You're right, it doesn't seem a big deal to YOU. As someone said above, affirmation is not a neutral act. Neither is denial.

Whether this is a phase or not, your child will always remember how you responded to them opening up about their feelings and asking them to change the name/pronoun that is their own. With dismissal, or distrust in their innermost perception of themselves, or with aknowledgement and respect.

The choice is yours. Many trans people don't speak to their families often, because they feel
as if they were seen as someone else, a mask they unwittingly wore.