Best environment for a 15 year old trans girl

[MackSol]

I'm a father, posting to ask for advice on my trans daughter.

My daughter, L, is approaching 16 and is in Year 10. She has spoken of being trans for around 2 years, is mildly on the ASD spectrum. L suffers from depression and severe social phobia, hasn't attended school for 18 months and shows no interest in education, but is academically gifted. Her school was a Boys Grammar, and they've been exceptionally supporting and have continued to offer her 1:1 teaching. She has had interaction with CAMHS, but sees no value in engaging with them for any form of talking therapy. L looks androgynous, and will use female bathrooms on the rare occasions she goes out.

I'm rather more accepting of L's gender than my wife is, and feel that L can open up more with me. She has one sibling, a 14 year old sister, and when she is interacting, can get on well with her. Her sister can, on limited occasions, express her frustration with the situation at home and not being able to go on family holidays.

I see a very low possibility of L interacting more, or getting back into any form of education, while she is living in this environment. Without meaning to, we seem to have created a toxic environment for her which reinforces a number of negative behaviours. We don't appear to be able to influence her in any way, and I keep thinking that her most likely outcome would be to be still locked in her bedroom with no outside contact apart from the internet in 10 years time.

I'm seriously considering that the best route for L may actually to be be placed with a foster family through social services, simply because another environment and set of people around her may help her realise the possibilities she has and what she has to offer. We've discussed placement with friends of family, but none are practical.

Has anyone been through a similar situation to this, with positive or negative results?

Thanks

Honestly, I'd be jumping right back here. Encourage them to keep an open mind, restrict internet usage and look for another school. They are young, and have all the markers of someone who may not turn out to be trans. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I really wouldn't go down the FC route.
Relinquishing a child to the care system (Section 21 I think it is called), isn't just a point of someone else caring whilst you retain a lot of influence. My understanding is you can pretty quickly be cut out of the loop. (There is a Fostering board under Becoming a Parent - you could specifically ask re fostering there.)

I can't see how a single sex environment is a good place for a gender questioning teen. Within a mixed sex environment they might find more of a range of role models and experiences. Find a school with a unisex uniform and an 'equal opportunities' environment.

However I'm afraid I do agree with some other posters that just because you and your child see their gender as female, that shouldn't mean they use girls facilities at school, as facilities are provided based on sex not gender for safeguarding reasons. Many girls feel self conscious enough in toilets / changing facilities as it is without sharing with someone of the male sex even if that person does feel female. You would need to be asking for a third space.

@BelleSausage

And I've seen trans people who have posted or commented on here receive abuse or be told that they are wrong to be trans. Time and time again. It's only a matter of time before the transphobes pile on here and then it really will turn into a political torrent of ignorance and prejudice.

My post was deleted for the wrong 'tone' so I will repeat the most relevant bit - you can't just put a child into foster care. That is not an option. Think of something else.

A change of school is a must imo. Your child could have a fresh start and meet others who will only have known them
as L. My children go to a comp and there are trans children there but it's so big that it's not considered a major deal socially - especially at L's age. Even if a comp isn't as academic as a grammar I agree that improving mental health and getting L out of her room should be the priority.

Your younger daughter also needs support and one on one time. Siblings often get forgotten as the parents are focused on the child with needs.

What a tough situation. I would agree with the advice about restricting internet use to a very limited time each day. She needs to be very actively encouraged first to reengage with the family and then with the world outside. There's no magic cure for agoraphobia but it sounds as if the bedroom at home is just a bit too comfortable. I hope you can find support for you too as this situation sounds hugely stressful

OP I think you would be better off posting elsewhere. As a PP has said, there is huge debate about whether trans people should use female spaces etcetera, and some of this is leaking onto your thread when in fact it is not what you asked for. There is a Facebook group for parents of LGBTQ teens, children and adults - you might be better off posting there to receive advice from people who have been in the same boat as you.

@Purpledaisychain

This is not the thread to have this discussion on. Please feel free to PM if you want an argument. But leave the thread for actually helpful suggestions.

@MackSol

Fully agree with what @bearlyactive says. There are various social media groups where you'll be able to get advice from people who have been in the same situation that will be more useful. I have seen a lot of ignorance surrounding trans issues on here over the years and several trans people who have dared to post threads have been bullied off so mumsnet probably isn't the most helpful place.

[quote Purpledaisychain]@MackSol

Fully agree with what @bearlyactive says. There are various social media groups where you'll be able to get advice from people who have been in the same situation that will be more useful. I have seen a lot of ignorance surrounding trans issues on here over the years and several trans people who have dared to post threads have been bullied off so mumsnet probably isn't the most helpful place.[/quote]
@Purpledaisychain

If you see transphobia then report it. But stop hijacking the OP's thread to serve your own purposes. There's no transphobia here and your 'warnings' are irrelevant to the issues at hand

@WaltzingBetty

I'm not hijacking anything. Just trying to give advice. The same advice I wish had been given to my trans friend who posted on here and got barrels of abuse.

stop hijacking the OP's thread to serve your own purposes

You might want to tell that to all the people up thread who jumped on the op about where his daughter goes to the toilet, even though their opinions are completely irrelevant to the ops issue.

I'm not hijacking anything. Just trying to give advice.

I'm sorry you friend was abused and hope you reported it, but 'go elsewhere' is not really helpful advice. If you really want to help, just stop derailing. You don't need to reply to this, let's focus on OP.

You might want to tell that to all the people up thread who jumped on the op about where his daughter goes to the toilet

I agree. The point has been made, no need to keep derailing when OP is clearly struggling.

OP, I suspect I'm going to echo many of the points made above:

1. You can't put your kid in care, both morally and in reality, it would be terrible for them if you could. No judgement- my eldest is incredibly difficult and I know those feelings all too well.

1. You can't send him (I'm going to use this because it's clearer, I hope you don't mistake it for disrespect, it isn't) back to that boy's school. Whether or not he decides to transition on the end, somewhere with such strong gender stereotypes will do his dysphoria no good at all. If he has two more years left (I don't understand how he can be 16) then I would be looking for another school.

1. I'd be seriously thinking about cutting all private internet access for him for a while. It doesn't sound like it's helping.

1. I think social transition at such a young age, when one parent isn't in agreement, is a bad idea. This is not me saying transition is never valid (I have a close relative for whom it was very effective) but the NHS don't recommend social transition except as part of treatment.

I'm surprised you are using female pronouns before your son has engaged with GIDS. Talking therapy should be the first option, way before social transition because that can be traumatic. Whether CAHMs or private that needs to be the first thing you do.

Transition does work for some cases of severe dysphoria but many dysphoric teens recover without it. That's not to in any way encourage transphobia- full transition is hard, it means taking pills for the rest of their life and not having kids. It doesn't always resolve the MH difficulties.

1. You need to look after your daughter in all this, that can be hard when one sibling has enormous needs.

It's very hard to comment further without understanding exactly what your son's behaviour is like. Addressing the other problems is just as important as the dysphoria. You need to get to the root of the issues.

Why on earth do you think foster care is the answer? What did you and your wife do that was so horrific you think giving your child away is the answer?

The sheer fact you've discussed giving her away will have affected her - if she knows what you've discussed. Does she? Because any child, knowing their parents plan to give them up to strangers, will be negatively affected.

You say L suffers from depression and severe social anxiety. It is possible that this is not be linked to their trans identity.

Agree with posters counseling is the way forward. But it might be better to get address the depression and social anxiety first.

I agree with the above posters about removing the internet access. Easier said than done, I know.
I hope you and your child can find a hobby group or something for social time.

@donquixotedelamancha

People have already been derailing by talking about trans women in female toilets, which wasn't what OP even asked about.

I suggested checking out other social media forums because there are much better, more knowledgeable places than mumsnet to discuss these kind of issues.

You have a troubled teenager who is finding "friends" on the internet who may well be supplying information that is at best unhelpful. Pressure may be exerted on them to go down a particular path or they may be fed a narrative that makes it seem like transition is the answer to all their problems. It may create a new set of problems.

You are more accepting than the child's mother - is this because you dislike the idea of a homosexual son but feel it is acceptable to have another daughter? Your attitudes and behaviour will have a big influence on your child.

This doesnt appear to be something your child has always felt - you neeed to look at who they are talking to online and what they are being told. Changing school to one that is more diverse would be helpful.

Mumsnet does tend to be sceptical about transisition. However an increasing number of medical professionals are becoming concerned about the pressures exerted on teenagers to make life-changing decisions on poor information.

So your child is 16 so they don,t need to go to school, perhaps look at other options, further eduation colleges, A level colleges, Modern apprenteships? Evening class.
def need counselling there is a worrying link between ASD and trans. (Not saying not trans but I think teanagers are very vulnarable and are still questioning things.)

Don’t underestimate the dreadful mix that ASD and puberty is.
Gender roles are arbitrary, and something that autistic people often struggle with. It’s common to find online groups where they feel they fit in who encourage these gender roles and transitioning above someone being non conforming and giving it time to feel comfortable in their bodies.

Like others have said, limit internet, change schools, try to find some therapy that he will engage with.

Please, please don’t consider foster care, I can’t see how that could be a positive step forward in any way.

Also, find therapy for your dd. A family member transitioning is incredibly confusing and she is likely to need some help processing it - too often other family members are assumed to be fine and left to it.

I agree that internet access needs to be heavily limited and screened. Your son is vulnerable to grooming.

Change to co-ed of whatever type.

Treatment and counselling for anxiety and depression before any trans counselling. I personally wouldn't encourage any trans treatment at this age - irreversible damage can be done if he changes his mind.

And your dd needs counselling of her own so her life is as minimally affected as possible.

Good luck

Foster care? I think the worst thing you can do for your child at their moment in their life is to reject them and send them away.
Unless she is a danger to you or someone in your family of course you shouldn’t put her in foster care. You say you are more accepting, but it seems that you’d rather swept this problem child under the rug.
Gender issues are the least issue here.

Also think you should look into some support for yourselves around the trans aspect- LGBT switchboard would be good to talk to - no judgmental, open, you can talk about how you really feel about this all.
Mumsnet is known in the LGbTQ community as being vitriolically anti trans ( despite the claim they’re just allowing ‘debate’ etc) so I don’t know if you’ll get the best advice for your situ here. See all the posts re toilet use in here totally ignoring your posts.

please explain to them that although they feel more comfortable in a female toilet, the females, whose safe space this is , may not feel the same way . And why should they? I am horrified that you let them do this. Women and girls (your daughter included) have a right to privacy and dignity, in law. These are not your rights to give away

This - it may be why your wife and daughter are finding this difficult. They actually know what it is to be female.

There's a slightly similar issue in my close family (although not my immediate family iyswim) - elder child FtM trans, younger child, a boy, now acting out quite extremely - depression, school refusal. And I totally understand why he does - the elder child's mental health issues and transition (Testosterone at 16, I could weep - it's so dangerous) has dominated the family for about 5 years.

Your daughter's life is constrained by her elder sibling's refusal to engage. That is really tough and she needs proper support, not being told to be "kind" and be forced to accept someone else's reality as her own.