Best environment for a 15 year old trans girl

[MackSol]

I'm a father, posting to ask for advice on my trans daughter.

My daughter, L, is approaching 16 and is in Year 10. She has spoken of being trans for around 2 years, is mildly on the ASD spectrum. L suffers from depression and severe social phobia, hasn't attended school for 18 months and shows no interest in education, but is academically gifted. Her school was a Boys Grammar, and they've been exceptionally supporting and have continued to offer her 1:1 teaching. She has had interaction with CAMHS, but sees no value in engaging with them for any form of talking therapy. L looks androgynous, and will use female bathrooms on the rare occasions she goes out.

I'm rather more accepting of L's gender than my wife is, and feel that L can open up more with me. She has one sibling, a 14 year old sister, and when she is interacting, can get on well with her. Her sister can, on limited occasions, express her frustration with the situation at home and not being able to go on family holidays.

I see a very low possibility of L interacting more, or getting back into any form of education, while she is living in this environment. Without meaning to, we seem to have created a toxic environment for her which reinforces a number of negative behaviours. We don't appear to be able to influence her in any way, and I keep thinking that her most likely outcome would be to be still locked in her bedroom with no outside contact apart from the internet in 10 years time.

I'm seriously considering that the best route for L may actually to be be placed with a foster family through social services, simply because another environment and set of people around her may help her realise the possibilities she has and what she has to offer. We've discussed placement with friends of family, but none are practical.

Has anyone been through a similar situation to this, with positive or negative results?

Thanks

So first off: If you consider foster care, I can understand why: you feel seriously unable to cope with your current situation and want the best for your child. But I really need you to consider other things first.

1. Children, especially teenagers, feel immense rejection when placed in foster care and this can cause issues for life. Generally kids don't have the reasoning skills to understand much beyond "oh my parents hate me and got rid of me".
2. Especially ASD children are change-resistent and sensitive to this rejection.
3. Your 14year old child will see this and pick up the message "oh, okay, I can be disposed of".

Second, I would look at getting support for your youngest child, including CAMHS. Usually CAMHS do offer family therapy, but I can't recommend this with L being anti-therapy. Someone for your youngest to talk to about these difficulties would be good for her mental health. I can only imagine the difficulty you face trying to balance everyone's needs.

Third...is a more general point about transgender idenitity. So, expecting L to go back to school at a boy's grammar is a complete fantasy. Not gonna happen, not with a kid who prefers to use female bathrooms. You have to place yourself in their shoes: imagine the anxiety of an all boys school when you lean to a more female identity. As a father, you know what teen boys can be like.

L's gender identity is very core to this issue. Children who have gender identity issues often socially withdraw and have depression and anxiety issues, puberty is rough and uncomfortable enough as it is, imagine that with the added identity issues. You say you are 'rather' more accepting than your wife: has this been an issue of tension? Arguments? It often is, and even if you go to GIDs, I dont feel GIDS does a enough for this tension.

I'm not here to prove a philosophical point, however, I can only say that factually, when children experience rejection from parents for their identities, it has a psychological impact. Again, children, yes even teenagers despite how difficult they can be, crave parental love and acceptance. If this has been absent, it can cause a lot of conflicts and issues, and further withdrawal. I'm really pleased you and L have a decent relationship and that L can communicate enough to talk about their gender, but there may still be things missing. And hey, this may be a phase cos puberty sucks, but even if it is you accepting and loving your child unconditionally creates a healthier relationship and one in which L feels loved and supported.

It seems L is an intelligent young person who is just struggling with gender and mental health. Being academically gifted will do them good, but I also think it's important to put mental wellbeing first. Breaking negative habits is very hard when a family unit has been trapped in them for years, and building trust and communication with a teenager is an uphill battle, but I don't think the answer is foster care, and that there seems to be a lot going on in your situation, so I have tried to broadly cover things.

As an aspiring gender therapist, please feel free to contact me any time. Best of luck to you and your family.

Hi. That is really helpful. Thank you very much. I will contact you directly on here if that's okay.

I am sorry for your predicament but please explain to them that although they feel more comfortable in a female toilet, the females, whose safe space this is , may not feel the same way . And why should they? I am horrified that you let them do this. Women and girls (your daughter included) have a right to privacy and dignity, in law. These are not your rights to give away.

And I'm sorry you feel that way. But it is the right thing for her.

Plenty of 15 year old boys can "pass" for female if suitably dressed/ made up - eg boy actors in Shakespearian times. This stage will not last.

Using female bathrooms (as you call them...do you mean toilets?) is very bad practice and disrespectful to the women and girls who need privacy. Sorry to be blunt.

My dd is on the asd spectrum, academically gifted. No trans but is bi. She struggled terribly at that age, school attendance was perhaps 30% and that was a good week, in the end they found space in a walk in cupboard basically and gave her a desk and laptop, got her attendance to 50%.

She was terribly hard to live with, I've got scars from where she bit me, scratched me, the bruises healed physically but I cannot forget, it's tough! But once puberty settled around 16 things got easier, she liked the special ed department lead at 6th form college and accepted counselling from her, from there she went to camhs (because her teacher suggested it she went, she didn't listen to us) and went on meds. It's not been plain sailing but from being on the verge of calling children's services or the police we now get along and she is mostly compliant I her early 20's. Unfortunately it was the icing on the cake for my marriage and she now lives with her dad, my choice to leave.

What I'm trying to say is that it's about as bad as it gets at 16 and lockdown will has made things worse, our nurse practitioner at camhs was amazing and such a help because I could call her for help. Oh and as bit of advice, when she was being compliant we arrange medical power of attorney so her gp etc could call me, in a bad spell it was essential.

It won't be plain sailing, midnight trips to a&e to the emergency mental health team are not fun but foster care is not a good option, it would probably have to be a semi secure unit for older teens too, not a family.

I don't understand why you think Foster care is the answer here?
It stands to reason that your daughter is not going to be happy at a boys grammar. Maybe you need to focus on finding the right educational setting for her, than she would be happier going to school and leaving the house.

Please don't give up on your children - either of them. Your younger child is in need of help too.

Are you having family therapy or counselling? To help you address this toxic environment you say you have unwittingly created at home?

I can't comment on the foster care aspect, but it's worth noting that risk factors for trans identity include ASD and social withdrawal/internet usage/social contagion.

I'd be querying whether your daughter actually thinks she's a boy or is just looking for an escape from the turbulence of being an ASD teen female. It can be shit, but transitioning won't fix that.

It's also much more socially acceptable in the online TRA community to be trans than to be gay, so if there's any possibility she's gay/bi/confused about her sexuality then 'fixing' that by 'transitioning' can appear to be a 'solution'.

More than anything I'd emphasise not making any irreparable decisions in terms of hormones etc. There are more and more detransitioning young adults who have irreversible health and fertility problems due to socially supported transition. We have to remember that there's limited evidence for many of these practices.

@Macksol I'm sorry for the unkind responses, unfortunately a small element of MNers try to take over any threads about transpeople and the difficulties they face. I'd suggest contacting one of the charities who can support you and your daughter on your journey. Wishing you both all the best for the future.

Apologies - just realised I have the genders confused but regardless the arguments stand, and struggling teen boys face similar challenges

You may be right that some time away, or at least interaction with others, may help her. Are there any LGBT organisations near you? I went to a youth group once a week at that age and it was great. Are there any groups, sports etc that she may enjoy. Please do contact any of the organisations that can help. It may help even for a sounding off space. I think keep persisting in reaching out to her. Little and often, so she knows you are there for her. As for mum, I think she needs to hear that she needs to get behind your daughter, or risk losing her.

OP, this isn't the right place for these kinds of posts. There is a lot of transphobia on mumsnet.

I'm just saying this because you are going to get a heck of a lot of undeserved abuse from some people on here. You'd be better off finding a different forum where people are more open minded and accepting.

Why not change schools and give them a fresh start?

Also, as the adult you need to get your child into therapy. At the moment they are not thinking coherently and need guidance and support. If things are difficult at home then they need an outside person to provide that.

I do hope you manage to find a therapist that suits them. But I also think that you need to do some research on where this path leads for your child. Have you explored where the feelings came from? Are they struggling with sexuality?

I wouldn't dismiss the ASD element as that is pretty important when it comes to gender issues. Also the fact your child has shut off from real people in favour of strangers on the Internet is very concerning and I would going through those interactions very carefully to check for grooming. Ultimately your child would do well to engage in therapy with someone who has experience with children suffering identity issues and who is autistic.

@Purpledaisychain

What a disgusting thing to say. How are you helping the OP by slinging accusations?

This is a child’s life we are discussing not some culture war. Make your political points elsewhere.

I'd be regulating their internet use as a way of getting them to engage in family life before I considered foster care. Seems rather a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

I cannot get over the posters who are reading a post from a struggling father about his clearly distressed teen, who are then jumping in with no actual advice, but are berating the op to further their own agenda.

OP, I also have a trans teen, counselling is definitely the way forward. If possible I would advise paying for this privately, as the NHS counselling is very much geared towards transition, and fairly quickly.

If your daughter wishes to get hormones and surgery she will need to have some counselling anyway, so I would use this as the starting point for discussing going to counselling.

It's so difficult, especially if you're all at odds with each other about the way forward, but foster care definitely isn't the way to go, your daughter will already be feeling rejected and confused.

Do make sure that your other daughter gets plenty of one on one time with both of you, and maybe even holidays and weekends away with at least one of you, so she isnt missing out.

Have you spoken to your local Home Education department?

They have lots of resources, and small groups of home educators often meet up for activities. This might be a good way for your daughter to start interacting with real people again.

Maybe contacting social work would also be a good idea too, they can recommend local charities and resources that may help too.

Good luck op

I can't help with any detail here.

However thinking of fostering seems such a drastic move.

A change of school first.

Internet switched off? Or is that too wild an idea. Because compared to fostering it seems an option to me.

I would honestly reel right back from that.