Family court- why doesn’t character and parenting matter

[whatsmissing]

Can anyone explain to me why in family court, when one parent wants more time with the child/ren than the other will agree to, why don’t they assess both parents’ character and parenting and home environment, and have some kind of standard scoring framework, and then allocate time accordingly so the child gets more time being raised with a better parent, in a better parenting style, in a better environment? And then have a process to reassess every X years or if requested if circumstances change?

Obviously this will raise the question of what is better. It will come down to values and research I suppose but it’s pretty obvious. Honest is better than lying. Peaceful is better than violent. Respectful is better than abusive. Towards others not just toward child. Because children are influenced by behaviours around them.

This is only scratching the surface, there are lots of every day positives like organising positive things for child and living a healthy life with positive supportive networks/social connections , and supporting child to be healthy and maintaining a clean nice home with peaceful atmosphere etc etc, things that are good for the child. And also history of time spent with child, relationship etc. Ability to respond appropriately to child, support and hold boundaries where needed. Ability to reflect and learn and admit mistakes and repair conflict not escalate it.

There must be a million things that are known to be good for children. Why aren’t we using that knowledge to get the child as good an upbringing as possible, rather than starting from 50/50?

I’m not saying the child should not see their less capable parent, but that this assessment should be considered alongside and balanced with giving some time with both parents in order to optimise things for the child.

Wouldnt family court be a more beneficial process if it was structured like this. Wouldn’t it save some of the grief if people could see in advance how it was likely to come out. Wouldnt there be less post separation abuse if people knew it would negatively affect court outcomes. Wouldnt an accepted definition of good character and parenting be a helpful thing for people to look at outside of the court process.

Come on then, shoot it down! Are there good reasons things are as bonkers as they are, with little kids being forced to spend large amounts of time with parents who are basically assholes or incompetent parents, but not deemed dangerous enough for it to matter?

To add I’m really focused here on kids who are deemed too young to have any say themselves in which parent they live with.

I presume people who decide to have children would have done character assessment and as much suitability as they could before conception and not just have children with no thought whatsoever, if 2 people decide to have a child it is usual for both parents to have some form of access to the child

Maybe there could be a pre-conception test set by the government or some other body as look what happens when parents leave it to chance, the court system has to pick up the pieces of the mess parents create in the first place, adults spend more time fighting amongst themselves and as usual the children suffer but as long as there is point scoring that is all that seems to matter

Wow that feels quite angry.
i believe it’s known that domestic abuse often starts some time into a relationship and I think often after having children. Also problems like drug abuse can start or be discovered later.
if a child has one decent competent parent and another far less so, why should the child be punished for the competent parent not having realised in advance how the other would behave in the future?

I feel like a lot of the fight comes from child maintenance existing. Less competent/less interested parents of not great character become motivated to fight for 50/50 for financial reasons.

Untill it goes to court it is just one persons version and demands over another, wonder why the courts are so busy? parents putting their fights over the childrens needs

‘forced’
’punished’
’incompetent’
’assholes’

You can see where the courts have trouble - both parties come with their partisan views.

Fundamentally though, children belong to both of their parents and deserve an equal relationship if they can.

FWIW, I think maintenance/lack of, is a motivator on both sides.

On paper, growing up my mum was the better / more competent parent and would have “won” on each point you’ve listed HOWEVER my dad was more loving; I’d have done better and would rather have lived in a more loving household than a more competent one which is something you’ve not taken into account.

The short answer is because that isn’t what matters to children.

humans are animals. Children form strong (really strong!) attachments to both their parents.

it seems to be the case that:
if you remove a child from both of it’s parents who it is attached to it causes major issues (adoption is extremely problematic and can cause serious trauma and attachment issues)

if you have a situation where a child is attached to both parents and then one parent isn’t seen anymore then it also disrupts normal psychological development - these children are more likely as teens to develop psychological problems.

personally I’d like to agree with you but unfortunately it seems children don’t work that way.

low quality parenting from the person they are already attached to gives better outcomes.

I am talking about parents wanting to get their children the best upbringing. For example not having an overweight preschooler spend half their time with a parent who feeds them sugary junk when it’s know that this will affect their health for life. Good parents care so much more than the courts seem to.

i read a report saying that while children typically do the best in 50/50 situations (eg where parents mutually agree 50/50 is best and co-operate) this is not the case where there is conflict. If that conflict arises from a capable parent wanting the best for the child and another parent being abusive and trying to avoid paying child maintenance, why can’t the court get the best outcome for the child?

The court has done what it thinks is best for the child. That’s what it considers.

Because there is not time or resources to get involved in separating couples’ endless complaints about each other. He said she said.
Short of abuse the bar for acceptable parenting has to be low or we would be taking more children away from their parents.

I agree asshole was a bad choice of word, but the rest is true. Children are forced to follow what the courts say. They will be the ones who suffer as a result, punished is a normal use of phrase. Incompetent is a factual definition of some people’s parenting.

But that can include mothers, and the next bloke she shacks up with

its funny, in an incredibly sad way how mothers dont seem to understand they may be causing issues for the childen just as much as fathers, and the justifications they try to get around it

Love would of course be included
, eg where I said relationship. But I think it’s easy for a parent who isn’t doing their half of the hard part of parenting eg boundaries, to come across more loving or more fun to a small child.

The court considers the detriment of cutting a child off from a parent much worse then being fed sugary junk as a preschooler.

the evidence suggests they are correct.

sugary junk is a risk to their teeth and health. Teeth can be cleaned. Being overweight as a child is a (relatively small) additional risk of mortality.

not seeing a parent has significantly increased risks of very problematic behaviour as a teen due to issues around self esteem and belonging.

That is what it is currently told to consider. I am talking about whether it could be told to look at things differently.

I’m not talking about not seeing. I’m talking about for example the difference between 50/50 and say EOW or EOW and 1 weeknight.

I did not mention parents sex at any point.

Thank you. Where can I read the research on this please?

I have seen a small child suffering distress from moving between homes 50/50 and manipulation from a parent, it feels so wrong.

If there were time and resources available , what would you say would be best for the child?
Bearing in mind we are not talking about them never seeing one parent, but them perhaps having a main stable home with one parent and seeing the other eg EOW and a weeknight.

Seeing both parents. As much as possible. One parent not constantly questioning what goes on at the other parents. Parents getting on well if possible, but leaving the child completely out of their conflicts, if not.

From observation but not personal experience I’m surprised that 50/50 is the uk standard and would have expected that a main home with visits to other parent would be preferable. Very willing to believe research shows otherwise. I feel like I’d have hated being between two homes, and it was very clear to me as a child who my ‘main’ parent was. Didn’t prevent me from having a strong attachment to the other (and just to note, both parents were great).

But who said my dad didn’t do his half of the hard parenting? You’re assuming less competent means incompetent which just isn’t always the case. I said my mum would “win” in each category if you were to compare them but that doesn’t mean my dad failed in any category either. He did everything he needed to and yes I know the difference between fun / Disney parenting thanks as I’m not a child anymore.

My parent’s had me and my siblings 50/50 and they both were (and still are) good parents however I would have done better living the majority of the time with my dad but conversely one of my siblings probably would have done better living with mum the majority of the time; that’s because both my parents are DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES and me and my siblings are also DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES WITH DIFFERENT NEEDS.

Are you neurodivergent? I only ask because I’m neurodivergent myself and you don’t seem to grasp the nuances involved nor are you weighting the feelings, attachments and emotions of a child heavily enough; you also seem to have quite black and white thinking on this.

You cannot reduce who’s the “better” parent down to a one size fits all standardised check list that turns it into a competition with the child as the prize; absent any abuse / neglect, doing so would be very dangerous and lead to more harm than good.

It’s heartbreaking that the current system is failing the child you know but what you’re suggesting isn’t the answer either.

But who said my dad didn’t do his half of the hard parenting? You’re assuming less competent means incompetent which just isn’t always the case. I said my mum would “win” in each category if you were to compare them but that doesn’t mean my dad failed in any category either. He did everything he needed to and yes I know the difference between fun / Disney parenting thanks as I’m not a child anymore.

My parent’s had me and my siblings 50/50 and they both were (and still are) good parents however I would have done better living the majority of the time with my dad but conversely one of my siblings probably would have done better living with mum the majority of the time; that’s because both my parents are DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES and me and my siblings are also DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES WITH DIFFERENT NEEDS.

Are you neurodivergent? I only ask because I’m neurodivergent myself and you don’t seem to grasp the nuances involved nor are you weighting the feelings, attachments and emotions of a child heavily enough; you also seem to have quite black and white thinking on this.

You cannot reduce who’s the “better” parent down to a one size fits all standardised check list that turns it into a competition with the child as the prize; absent any abuse / neglect, doing so would be very dangerous and lead to more harm than good.

It’s heartbreaking that the current system is failing the child you know but what you’re suggesting isn’t the answer either.

How do you think they do decide it OP? Because all the things you listed are indeed relevant to what is best for the child and they are considered by the court and by CAFCASS officers. The problem is that there are simply not the resources to investigate every home situation. You just can’t. Anyone can make their home look nice for a visit or feed some bullshit to professionals. Deadbeat parents don’t rock up to court saying they’re shit and abusive. Where there are serious allegations the court does investigate but they do have to be serious. But when you get a mum saying dad is an awful abusive incompetent arsehole, oh but he’s been having overnights for three years now but I want him to have two nights, not three then realistically what is an investigation going to achieve? Or where (as in most cases) both parents swear blind that the other parent is shit and the answer is probably somewhere in the middle, that they’re both a bit shit but in different ways.

There are posts on Mumsnet from women with the most awful partners yet they decide to have kids with them or more kids when they’ve already shown their true colours. There will be some where the problems don’t start until after all the kids have arrived but most kid themselves it will be okay. There isn’t someone who will magically save you from the consequences of procreating with a useless loser. Unless the kids are in active danger then that’s who is going to be the other person raising them. Choose a lot more wisely and raise the bar off the floor if you don’t want that..