Neighbour dispute

[finallyhappyinlife]

In may 2024 we had our drive paved by a local businessman . We are very happy with the work he did for us however the white residue from the hardcore he used underneath the blocks has run onto our neighbours drive leaving a strip of lighter tarmac which shows up when her drive is dry . She is extremely unhappy as expected and I have made several attempts to get the workmen back to discuss this issue however he flatly refuses . I have been totally civil with neighbour agreeing that it’s unacceptable and I have tried many many times to get him to sort this issue . I have ended up falling out with the owner of the business as I believe he is totally out of order . He refuses to speak to my neighbour saying she is just jealous of us having the work done . This has caused us immense stress and she has stopped speaking to us . Earlier in the year her son said she was going to have a fence installed between us and was that ok ? I said that’s up to you as we cannot stop your mum doing anything on her own property and it was no business of ours . This fence has never materialised .
Now today I have received a recorded letter saying she has been advised to get 3 quotes for re tarmacing the whole drive . The quotes range from £8800 to £11000 as she is asking us to pay for this work .
She is asking us to respond within 14 days or she will take it to small claims court .
I feel she should be sending said letter to the workmen who did the work and ruined her drive . Am I wrong ? Why should we pay out £10000 approx for the workmen’s error . And advice would be much appreciated on our rights and the next steps for us to take .

We had a similar issue.
Neighbour contracted workmen who damaged our house. We needed 2 rooms partly re plastered and both completely decorated.
He refused to give us the workmen's details so we went through our house insurance.
They in turn took our neighbour to court to recover the money, including our excess that we paid.
Court ruled for the insurance company and we were reimbursed.

Maybe suggest your neighbour goes through her insurance company, they may then try and recover costs from the builder (or yourself).

Why not just put a coat of the thin tar over the top of her drive? Better than painting and is what roads do to move white lines etc, so it has longevity.

It won't fix the underlying condition of the drive but will restore the surface. As it is impossible to only do the damaged part, you would need to do the whole thing.

I've just googled and it's called resurfacing.

My steps

1. Write to contractor and formally request details of his insurer and notify of intention to make a claim (see a solicitor to ensure it's correctly written)
2. Get resurfacing quotes. Note that you understand resurfacing is not recommended for old drives, however you need to restore the appearance, not functionality of the drive.
3. If the matter goes to small claims, ask your solicitor from step 1 how you join the contractor as a co-defendant to the claim.

doesn't address stopping it happening again.

A.I. The post you are thanking is A.I.

As are many other posts on here.....

.

Absolutely it does.

The CF NDN wants a new drive and has produced estimates of up to 10k.

The "damage" is superficial on her aged/30+ year old clapped out tarmac drive.

The drive is perfectly useable, its just colour degradation.

I am sure YOU wouldnt pay up to 10k if you were in this situation - as for the tradesman not engaging with the NDN, how the fuck is that the OPs problem?

What if he has run off to Gretna Green or left the country? Is the OP supposed to use a magic trick to make him reappear?

The NDN is a fucking chancer.

The fix in your example would be a re spray. Not a brand new car. The fix for the stained driveway is basically the same - a respray, not a brand new driveway.

Yeah right!!

I had a student nurse submit a piece of work I’d asked her to do about dressing selection - it was completely wrong - dressing properties etc and what they were used for. Out of interest I asked ChatGPT the questions I’d given her - the answers I got was what she had written.

AI is wrong………A LOT!

So where/how has water from your drive caused the staining on hers?

IF the staining has been caused by building works carried out on your property you may be liable to rectify such damage but only to the drive to the same condition it was in prior to the damage being caused.

IF…

She has to prove/show what you had done has caused this damage.

Her and her son’s opinion (unless he’s a building professional specialising in drive construction) is not sufficient.

IF the damage was caused by your work she can get her drive reinstated to how it was before the damage. NO BETTERMENT.

Maybe it hasn’t…

Everyone has been getting very excited about the damage being 100% the fault of the OP’s builder but haven’t paused to question if that’s actually what happened.

1. The picture of OP’s drive shows an unstained area between the pavers and the boundary sleepers with no staining. The water would somehow have to be coming from a foundation level, seeping upward, jumping over a drainage channel then dribbling under a wall.

2. The assertion it was OP’s fault has come from the NDN and her son.

3. OPs drive had similar staining prior to replacement.

4. The other drives in the background have similar staining.

5. It hasn’t gotten worse which suggests it may have been an initial issue that has been rectified.

I have asked her to send me the pics she says she has of her drive before the event . No pics have materialised .
They say the white dust from the hardcore material used under our blocks has caused the staining.
The problem is HOW does someone get it back to the original state because we think if someone manages to clean it off it will show up the rest of the drive badly and make it potentially even worse 🤷🏽‍♀️But then I guess I have no control over that

OP, I think you need to apply some logic.

Looking at your drive, you’ll know roughly how deep the drainage channels are in relation to your neighbour’s property. If water from your drive drains into them with no problem and you don’t have puddles collecting on your drive regularly, how can this stained water have gotten from your drive onto your neighbour’s?

As she is the one threatening court action, she would have to prove to the court that the damage has been caused by you.

You seem to be accepting what she says as being absolutely true. How do you have a not stained area between your drive and hers?

Water does not go upwards. If it’s water from the hardcore which is the foundation of your drive then that level would have to be at the same/slightly higher height than your neighbour’s drive. Your drainage would also have to be not working.

Now, if it’s been a one off that’s caused the damage (evidenced by the lack of continuing staining) then there’s no chance of it happening again so she can get her drive put back to the condition it was in prior ie faded, wonky, weedy 30 year old tarmac. Nothing more.

NDN: You’ve damaged my drive.
NDN provides evidence that the damage was caused by OP
OP: You’re right. I’m sorry. Here’s a solution to put it back the way it was.
NDN: Fine

THE END

Or…

OP repaints drive
NDN: No, I want a new drive now. It’s not nice.
COURT: No

THE END

We are thinking the rain water has been soaking through the blocks and not actually making it to the drain then soaking under the plastic drain that he fitted .
At the end of the day we and her are sumising as we are no professionals . I need to get professional advice from driveway experts which I should have done originally

So NDN wants all and sundry done yet provides fuck all evidence to help her case?

I'd wash my hands clean of it and ignore her.

Its winter - the inclement weather will damage all surfaces out there with rain, frost, snow, cold, warmth, grit, stones from car tyres etc.

Until its dry and spring/summer - its too difficult for anyone to determine specific damage the alleged water from your drive to hers has caused.

NDN has to prove beyond doubt its your fault - that she wont share any pics says she knows that she cannot.

Seriously - ignore her. If she wants to escalate, let her throw her money at a legal case (which she will not - if she wont give free pics to you of her drive, do you really think shes about to spaff her money on a legal case that she knows will not result in her winning or getting a new drive?).

Dont let her live rent free in your head. Fuck her off and leave her to it. Your contractor has the strategy nailed on!

More keyboard warrior waffle - try to comprehend the point I was making before replying. OP wrote: "But I have tried to get the person responsible to come back and discuss resolutions with the neighbour many many times to no avail." and you replied: "This then proves that the NDNs angle is to somehow coerce/force you into ponying up for an all new drive to replace the aged one they have now." It proves no such thing - there's no correlation at all and only someone with no grasp of logic would believe what you wrote.
And OP's NDN isn't being a CF. Her drive may well be old, but it was a uniform colour - it didn't have big white patches on it before OP's new drive was laid. So, after almost two years of this problem not being resolved she's gone nuclear to get OP's attention (and I have no doubt she's taken advice before doing so because the majority of people wouldn't know to write an LBA before starting a legal claim). OP now needs to do what she should have done a long time ago; research possible solutions (plenty have been suggested on this thread) and talk to her NDN about which can be tried to solve the problem that doesn't involve laying a new drive. (Sadly, OP's allowed this situation to go unresolved for so long that I suspect her NDN is well beyond co-operating with her as she thinks OP is the CF.)
Anyway, this is a real-life problem that OP must deal with unless she wants the situation to get a whole lot worse and "advice" like yours isn't remotely helpful.

Amazing how you call my comments waffle without providing a shred of evidence that the NDNs drivway was uniform in colour?

Are you the NDN?

Did the NDN share the pics with you and not the OP?

Clutching at straws because you dont like / cant handle an opposing viewpoint.

And if the NDN wasnt or isnt angling for a new drive, then why are her "quotes" for remedial work close to 10k, and not 1k, or at best, 2k?

If my advice is not helpful, then heaven only knows why the OP should shaft herself listening to your pseudo advice that would render her out of pocket.

JFC 🙄🤦‍♂️

Yes, you should have done that originally. Maybe then she wouldn't have lost all patience with you and gone nuclear. I hope you move fast enough to avert her legal action - not because she will necessarily win, but because defending the claim will be stressful and time-consuming for you. And, of course, she could win and then it will be up to a judge to decide what to award her in reparation/compensation and costs (plus statutory interest).

He refuses to speak to my neighbour saying she is just jealous of us having the work done .

I mean what a stupid reply.

That would make me think his work could be at fault.

Logic and attention to detail really aren't your strong suits, are they?
OP wrote in her first post: "We are very happy with the work he did for us however the white residue from the hardcore he used underneath the blocks has run onto our neighbours drive leaving a strip of lighter tarmac which shows up when her drive is dry . She is extremely unhappy as expected and I have made several attempts to get the workmen back to discuss this issue however he flatly refuses." OP has never tried to claim that her NDN's drive was stained before her own new drive was laid - quite the opposite - she clearly accepts that the staining to her NDN's drive has been caused by her drive work and was sympathetic, but because the solution wasn't a simple one (because OP's tradesman ignored her request for help) OP took to ignoring her NDN in turn. And your "advice" is for OP to continue ignoring her because you're one of those fools that thinks ignoring a problem just makes it go away. 🙄
Yeah @finallyhappyinlife you carry on ignoring your NDN as @HelplessSoul suggests and see what happens next ... because that's worked out well so far, hasn't it? Alternatively, be a decent neighbour and do what you should have done 18 months ago and research a solution that won't cost at least £8k to effect.

Amazing how you are reacting.

Anyone would think you are the NDN!

OPs pics shows at least one other neighbouring driveway with identical degradation.

The OP liable for that too?

(Please using spacing in your posts next time, helps readers etc and those with possible visual impairments. Thanks!)

Brilliant - when you have no argument or discussion point(s), you resort to personal attacks.

Well done you. 👍

Who is the recorded letter from, what was in it, were the quotes included. Surely its the Surface rainwater goes into the drain channels, not what's underneath the paving. You can't begin to restore it back to its former state if you don't know what that was as you have no photos. I would write back, recorded delivery, keep copies. Say you're instructing an independent professional to inspect both driveways, at a mutually convenient time. as you have been unable to speak with the contractor, ask if she could supply you with before and after photos and any inspection report she may have. Something like that but I'd seek legal advice first before you contact her or a driveway expert.

You implied you had a visual impairment, which I agreed with due to your willful disregard for the content of the photo's OP's posted, and then I put a space between my two paragraphs, as you requested, to help with that (as I have in this post).

My comment about your very foolish "advice" to OP to continue ignoring her NDN still stands - doing that has brought her close to being sued and advising her to continue with this strategy is reckless in the extreme on your part.

Check your buildings insurance cover as this will usually cover claims made against you related to your ownership of the property. I think this situation should be covered. If you have legal expenses cover you can just let the insurance company appointed solicitors deal with the claim from your neighbour. They will likely counterclaim against the builder who caused the damage and if they manage to reclaim all costs from the builder your no claims record should be preserved plus you will be able to reclaim any excess you had to pay.

Your original contractor should have done a site visit, his quote and invoice should detail the work to be done, materials used, height, drainage, did you have tarmac before, did he remove that. It should also show if his work is guaranteed, insured and if he's a member of any professional trade.