Neighbour dispute

[finallyhappyinlife]

In may 2024 we had our drive paved by a local businessman . We are very happy with the work he did for us however the white residue from the hardcore he used underneath the blocks has run onto our neighbours drive leaving a strip of lighter tarmac which shows up when her drive is dry . She is extremely unhappy as expected and I have made several attempts to get the workmen back to discuss this issue however he flatly refuses . I have been totally civil with neighbour agreeing that it’s unacceptable and I have tried many many times to get him to sort this issue . I have ended up falling out with the owner of the business as I believe he is totally out of order . He refuses to speak to my neighbour saying she is just jealous of us having the work done . This has caused us immense stress and she has stopped speaking to us . Earlier in the year her son said she was going to have a fence installed between us and was that ok ? I said that’s up to you as we cannot stop your mum doing anything on her own property and it was no business of ours . This fence has never materialised .
Now today I have received a recorded letter saying she has been advised to get 3 quotes for re tarmacing the whole drive . The quotes range from £8800 to £11000 as she is asking us to pay for this work .
She is asking us to respond within 14 days or she will take it to small claims court .
I feel she should be sending said letter to the workmen who did the work and ruined her drive . Am I wrong ? Why should we pay out £10000 approx for the workmen’s error . And advice would be much appreciated on our rights and the next steps for us to take .

You're right. Of course there is an issue for the OP... You don't even need to be a lawyer to know this is the OP's issue to sort - whether she does it herself, or gets her contractor to do it. And no WAY has the neighbour got to sort it out with the OP's contractor.

Despite what the mighty A.I. says, it IS for the OP to fix! The OP is hilariously deluded if she takes the advice of A.I. I'm cringing for her that she's getting excited by the handful of posts saying 'but A.I. says you're not liable!'

@finallyhappyinlife YOU ARE LIABLE.

SMH!

It would take more than that to get me excited I can assure you 😂😂

She's only liable if the staining is definitely caused by the hardcore leaching. This needs investigating.

Thank you for this useful information

She can’t sue you for betterment. Thats just the law. She can sue you for the cost to put it back to how it was before - which won’t be much. If the only way to fix is a new drive, you cannot be liable for the full cost.

Sorry if I have missed this point. Is run off that caused the problem still happening when it rains?

Excellent advice from @PrettyPickle – it's what you should've done when this first happened instead of 18 months later.

Incidentally, I also just ran the issue through ChatGPT and here's why you can't trust AI, because the answer I got is different to PP! It said that you will definitely be liable if you failed to take reasonable care when choosing the contractor and failed to check their insurance when it was necessary for the scale of the work and proximity to neighbouring property.

This is what my iPhone AI says:

‘When a contractor damages a neighbor's property,
both the contractor and the property owner (your neighbor) can be held responsible, though liability often falls on the contractor or their public liability insurance; the owner is liable for hiring them, but the contractor directly caused the damage, so they should fix it, ideally via their insurance, while the owner also has duties to their neighbor, so documentation and communication are key.
Who is Responsible?

• The Contractor: Most directly responsible for the physical damage they caused, especially if negligent. They should have Public Liability Insurance (PLI) to cover these costs.
• The Property Owner (Your Neighbour): Can be liable for their contractor's actions as they hired them, meaning they have a duty to ensure the work is done safely. They may claim on their own insurance or pursue the contractor. ‘

I think it is more complex. I think that, primarily, the contractor needs to put it right, and they should claim on their insurance.

But, I am guessing that if they fail to do so, you become liable.

New for (very) old is ridiculous, but they need their drive restored to how it was.

I would push your contractor hard one last time but, simultaneously, I would be seeking professional legal advice.

If you driveway has been raised to higher than previously and it causes run off onto a neighbour you will also have to remedy this, maybe with a drive drain.

You have to ask the right questions to get the right answers from AI!

I can't imagine being as ineffective on an issue like this, as the OP.

Chase original contractor for a month, no joy, get another contractor round and enquire how to make good. Get quote. Back to original contactrator again with a 'do it or I pay someone else and recover' message. Still no joy, pay new contractor, persue old contractor via SCC for the amount.

There will be women who have grown and birthed two humans in the time the OP has been pissing around.

Judging by the spelling on that, I would say it is applicable in the US.

"insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". It appears that you have never heard of this phrase.

What was your plan going to be before she started the small claims process? Chase them for another 18 months? or 18 years?

You need to take a more pragmatic attitude to fixing the damage that YOUR contractors have caused. You should be getting advice from other hard landscaping professionals about having her drive restored to the condition it was before it was damaged. Either by way of chemical cleaning or skimming off the top later and resurfacing it. Newsflash - Yes that will mean spending money.

No matter how much you disagree with people on here your neighbour has finally had enough and is understable going down the legal result through lack of action on your part. And by 'action' I mean actually getting something done rather than chasing your contractor who is EVIDENTLY not interested.

June was six months ago. What have you done to progress this since June?

The contractor is absolutely responsible. But the op's responsible for ensuring they fulfil their obligation. If she doesn't, it will be up to her to fork out. She can then absolutely go after the contractor, but it will be much easier if she sues the contractor first. If she fixes the driveway and then sues, she will have to prove that hers was the best solution; for example, if she does pay £10k to buy them a new drive, the contractor can easily argue it just needed painting, and she'll have to provide evidence that she investigated all the alternatives and that her solution was the best course of action. Plus explain why she didn't sue the contractor in the first place and instead took the responsibility upon herself. And explain why she's taken such a ridiculously long time to act.

It is definitely not up to the neighbour to call a driveway company she has never had any dealings with and fight with them to resolve! The only time the neighbour should need have any direct contact with the contractor is arranging what time to come.

To sue you they need to prove & demonstrate their loss. Discolouration to a 30 year old drive at the end of its life expectancy is unlikely to be worth much. Speak to a solicitor for reassurance.

As this is a post in legal matters it might be helpful to set out a couple of the principles which apply:

1. privity of contract. Only those who are party to a contract (in this case you and the contractor) can rely on it. So your neighbour cannot sue your contractor for bad workmanship. I think most people have set this out in their posts. Sometimes you can assign the benefits of a contract for example a warranty but only if the contract allows it (often it’s with the permission of the contractor). In any case that’s no use here.

2 Nuisance - you are responsible for something which escapes from your land and causes damage to a neighbours land. The first case we all get taught at law school! In that case it was tannery contaminated water IIRC. There are some caveats to a claim in negligence, but basically that’s what your neighbour is looking at.

Disputes like this tend to get very messy and any legal fees usually outweigh the actual costs of rectifying the damage. If you want a quiet life, and to be able to sell your house, apologise for the misunderstanding (you thought your contractor was liable), and make a reasonable offer to fix the damage. You need to reinstate to the same condition as it was before the damage, not to make it better than that.

Good luck!

Yes, especially if OP can counter their claim with the fact that, by failing to maintain and seal their drive on a regular basis to maintain its impermeability, the NDN contributed through their own negligence to damage experienced. OP should then state that they are very willing to pay someone to repaint and seal their drive - to not only remove the stain but to leave it in a better state than before it was damaged - thereby offering more than reasonable remedy.

As another PP states, it’s an aging drive and NDN should not be able to profit from the issue, only gain restitution. This is all OP ought to be found liable for - and yes, she would be liable, but I understand why she is angry and resistant to the suggestion that she is liable for the replacement of NDN entire drive for what is, essentially, an easily fixable cosmetic issue that does not actually impair the use and function of the drive.

well...kind of. If their drive was old and worn but unstained, especially if the staining is likely to recur, that is a loss. My drive is over 30 years old, it looks worn but is not stained and is nowhere near the end of its life. I get that total replacement is unlikely to be a goer in law but the neighbours are entitled to have what they had before which is an unstained drive and a situation where the neighbour's replaced drive will not stain theirs again. I do suspect that if the OP had been more apologetic and proactive in getting this sorted, the neighbour would have been more reasonable in their expectation. I cannot understand how the OP thought it was at all acceptable to faff around for 18 months and then effectively say "well I chased the contractor, what more can I do?"

More apologetic ???? How do u know I wasn’t ??? Do not assume anything

I'm in the building trade, don't bother re-tarmacing the drive, the stain will come back as rain washes salts out of the hardcore - this happens when there is a loose water soluble substrate near tarmac, it is what it is, tarmac by its nature becomes stained and variegated in colour as it ages as it is always a bit sticky so picks up fine powders.

It is what it is, its not an interior wall, its a roadway, tarmac is used because it is durable, flat and cheap to lay, not for its good looks, it won't stay gloss black forever!

Agree with this - the OP’s lack of action has allowed this situation to escalate and NDN may be less that willing to discuss basic remedial steps without a solicitor’s letter stating what that might look like. OP will need to be prepared to incur costs of a legal consultation and letter, now, and the costs of having the drive painted.

an apology is not just what you SAY, its what you DO

no but it wasn't stained and now it is and the staining is a result of the OP's actions.

I've not read anything like the full thread (though I saw what looked like some pretty sensible input from Dumbledore). And don't take this as legal advice. However....

The contractor likely owes a duty of care in the tort of negligence to your neighbour. Just because the contractor didn't contract with your NDN doesn't mean that the contractor cannot be liable to the NDN.

I'd be inclined to write to the contractor, including a copy of any correspondence from the neighbour (or, if none, setting out what the NDN has said) and including copies of the quotes, and pointing out that this is the contractor's responsiiblity to sort. You should then write a letter (so that you have paper trail copies) to NDN saying that you have written to contractor to inform them that they need to sort this out. You should invite them to pursue the contractor directly - make sure your NDN has the contractor's details.

The aim would be to encourage your NDN to pursue this with the contractor, as he / she is likely entitled to.

Document everything in case needed!

If the NDN takes you to court, you might consider either joining the contractor in as an additional party, or considering bringin a claim separately against them for an indemnity. Have a look at the Civil Liability (Contribution) Act 1978 and some online guidance around that, as well as a think about how this represents a breach of your contractor's contract wth you.

You really would benefit from a couple of hours of a lawyer's time. Its not complicated stuff, but a bit of helpful direction at the outset could save a lot of time and hassle at a later stage.

Hope this is of some use...