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Grave ownership challenge.... is it possible?

64 replies

Iheardagurd · 16/12/2025 20:30

Hi all. All of the below has taken place in England, just for legal framework reference.

This is a highly emotional situation for me and my family, so I'll try not to ramble and be as concise as possible.

My Uncle died suddenly and unexpectedly in May 2020 at the age of 46 years old. He did not have a will when he died. He had a living father, two children (one adult, one aged 9), and a sister at the time of his death (sister is my mum). He also had a partner, who didn't live with him, but had moved in whilst lockdown was happening. In non-lockdown situations they lived seperately.

He had been with his partner for 2-3 years. They weren't married and didn't have kids together. We as a family didn't know her very well, as she lived far away, so we only saw her at family gatherings etc.

When my Uncle died, we were all understandably devastated and hugely shocked. My Uncle's partner sort of 'took over' the admin side of things re:- the funeral/organising things with his workplace etc. At the time it felt like it was incredibly helpful, and she was being really kind, but we now know this not to be the case. We as a family decided how the funeral would run and all the readings/songs etc, but she did the admin stuff with the funeral directors. It was paid for via a gofundme which had been set up by his colleagues at work for the family, however the money was ultimately given to her as she was co-ordinating all the admin stuff. We do now realise this was a huge mistake.

My Uncle ended up being buried (which his partner was insistent he wanted). A few months after the funeral my mum and grandad wanted to put a headstone on his grave. We find out that partner is the holder of the exclusive burial rights to my Uncles grave, meaning we can't do anything without her say so. We had no understanding of how this worked, and to be honest hadn't even thought about grave ownership etc as we were all so blindsided and trusted that partner was handling things properly and was involving us in all decisions.

We ask partner how this happened, and she said because she organised the funeral it was signed over to her. We ask her for her to transfer ownership to my mum/grandad. She refuses, instead stating that we should all work together to design his headstone etc. We initially agree, but she never responds to our requests to sort it out.

My Grandad then became unwell and died in May 2022. At this point partner was completely ignoring all requests to transfer ownership over, ignoring all messages from our family regarding the grave etc.

My Grandad left clear and express wishes that his and my Grandma's ashes be buried with their son. We have been unable to do that as partner completely ignores all of our messages and we can't bury them there without her approval.

We are over 5 years down the line and my Uncle's grave is bare. No headstone, only tended to by my parents and me/my siblings. My grandma and grandad's ashes are not with their son. This woman is doing nothing with this grave and will not respond to any form of contact. My parents have even offered her money to sign the plot over to them. She's completely ignoring us. We don't even know where's she living at this point.

My mum is absolutely devastated. It's taking a huge toll on her mental health and we don't know what to do next. She seems determined to own it but is doing absolutely nothing with it. It's so painful to see my Uncle's grave like this and not be able to put my grandparents with their son.

Basically - Is there a legal process we could follow to acquire the rights to this grave site back into our family? Would it end up costing loads of money with little chance of a good outcome?

Thank you in advance for any replies or advice.

OP posts:
SparklyGlitterballs · 17/12/2025 08:01

NormasArse · 16/12/2025 20:51

I’d go and bury his mum and dad’s ashes in the grave. Do it at night if you have to.

As tempting as this may seem, please don't do this. If the ashes aren't interred officially, with the correct paperwork being processed, then you'd never be able to add their names to any future gravestone, should the situation be resolved.

Owly11 · 17/12/2025 08:06

NormasArse · 16/12/2025 20:51

I’d go and bury his mum and dad’s ashes in the grave. Do it at night if you have to.

What a helpful response 🙄

Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 08:40

Just to clarify, there won't be any rogue ash burials, just a cheeky rogue scattering or two! 🤣

OP posts:
Andthatrightsoon · 17/12/2025 13:45

Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 08:40

Just to clarify, there won't be any rogue ash burials, just a cheeky rogue scattering or two! 🤣

Shaken down your trouser leg?

Sorry for your losses, OP. I hope you get things sorted.

NotDavidTennant · 17/12/2025 14:00

Have you actually spoken to anyone at the council's cemetery department? They must have some process for resolving disputes like this.

DwarfBeans · 17/12/2025 16:57

So this woman only knew your uncle for a few years? She sounds like a narcissistic c*nt and I can’t u understand what she is getting out of this. Did she spend all the gofundme money?

BadgernTheGarden · 17/12/2025 17:09

Iheardagurd · 16/12/2025 21:23

He died without a will (probably didn't think he'd need one at his age), so his estate was dealt with via intestacy rules and his estate was divided between his two children.

The gofundme was set up by his workmate to help his family fund the funeral. Partner was given the money from the gofundme by said workmate. We never spoke to him regarding this. The funeral was paid for using these funds, but we never received a breakdown of cost etc. She did all that herself.

So she used money raised for him to buy the grave on behalf of herself, that sounds like fraud, she should have used the funds to buy the grave for him on behalf of his children who were his beneficiaries. I would talk to a solicitor, I would think the ownership could be legally overturned. The gofundme wasn't for her.

BadgernTheGarden · 17/12/2025 17:24

At best she 'accidentally' became the owner in which case she should have immediately changed the ownership to his children as soon as she became aware.

HundredMilesAnHour · 17/12/2025 17:28

BadgernTheGarden · 17/12/2025 17:09

So she used money raised for him to buy the grave on behalf of herself, that sounds like fraud, she should have used the funds to buy the grave for him on behalf of his children who were his beneficiaries. I would talk to a solicitor, I would think the ownership could be legally overturned. The gofundme wasn't for her.

Edited

Not necessarily. He couldn’t own the grave because he was already deceased. It has to be owned (effectively leased to) by someone living and they don’t have to be the next of kin although the next of kin has a right to ask for the ownership to be transferred to them during the probate process but it seems this wasn’t requested. So she hasn’t done anything wrong here apart from go completely awol.

OP you definitely need legal advice to find out if you have any options.

RescueMeFromThisSilliness · 17/12/2025 18:27

Was the undertaker aware that she was not personally paying for the funeral, but that the money for the funeral had been collected by donations via GoFundMe and the work colleagues?

Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 18:37

NotDavidTennant · 17/12/2025 14:00

Have you actually spoken to anyone at the council's cemetery department? They must have some process for resolving disputes like this.

I have emailed the council department which looks after the cemetery he's buried in. I've requested a copy of the exclusive burial rights document, when it was obtained, how long it's been paid for etc. I've also asked the council's protocol for grave care/erecting headstones etc, along with asking if NOK permission should have been sought before signing it over to a non-relative.

Apparently all of the above is public records, so they should get back to me soon.

OP posts:
Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 18:40

DwarfBeans · 17/12/2025 16:57

So this woman only knew your uncle for a few years? She sounds like a narcissistic c*nt and I can’t u understand what she is getting out of this. Did she spend all the gofundme money?

Yup. They had only been together a few years - no kids, not cohabiting. She really went in for the kill after he died, quite methodically it seems.

When my Grandad died we found a letter he had signed amongst his belongings stating that she should be copied into all correspondence regarding his workplace death in service etc too. It was signed 3 days after he died. I think my Grandad would have signed his house away at that point.... he genuinely didn't know his arse from his elbow. None of us did.

As far as we're aware the full 8k raised by the gofundme was spent on funeral costs. But we were never provided any breakdown of cost. He didn't have a wake because it was during lockdown.

OP posts:
Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 18:43

RescueMeFromThisSilliness · 17/12/2025 18:27

Was the undertaker aware that she was not personally paying for the funeral, but that the money for the funeral had been collected by donations via GoFundMe and the work colleagues?

I don't think he would have been aware of that unless she specifically told him, so she could quite easily have passed the money off as her own.

None of us immediate family attended the funeral directors as she was being 'so kind' and dealing with it all.

She also warned us all off visiting him in the chapel of rest, basically making out that he looked really weird, scary and 'not like himself', saying we would all be really upset. So none of us did. In retrospect this was also b*ollocks- he died of a sudden cardiac failure so probably looked just like himself. She just wanted us out of the picture. This also causes my mum a great deal of upset.

We've really been taken for mugs haven't we?

OP posts:
Sassylovesbooks · 17/12/2025 18:50

My MIL died many years ago now, before I ever met my husband. My FIL 'owns' the grave, and when he decided to move to Spain, he asked my husband to take over 'ownership' of it. I can't remember who my husband contacted, but he was told that he couldn't take over 'ownership' of his Mum's grave until his Dad passed away. There was no way he could take it over whilst my FIL is still alive. You need to seek legal advice but it may be the same, until your Uncle's partner dies, then no one else can take over the 'ownership'.

Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 18:55

Sassylovesbooks · 17/12/2025 18:50

My MIL died many years ago now, before I ever met my husband. My FIL 'owns' the grave, and when he decided to move to Spain, he asked my husband to take over 'ownership' of it. I can't remember who my husband contacted, but he was told that he couldn't take over 'ownership' of his Mum's grave until his Dad passed away. There was no way he could take it over whilst my FIL is still alive. You need to seek legal advice but it may be the same, until your Uncle's partner dies, then no one else can take over the 'ownership'.

I think you can. We've looked into it and you can do some sort of deed of transfer type document, along with paying an administration fee. The funeral director who dealt with Uncle's funeral provided my mum with a blank copy a few years ago which she took to my Grandad's funeral in the hope that partner would sign it. She didn't of course. After his funeral she has completely ignored all contact from us.

OP posts:
Sassylovesbooks · 17/12/2025 19:00

Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 18:55

I think you can. We've looked into it and you can do some sort of deed of transfer type document, along with paying an administration fee. The funeral director who dealt with Uncle's funeral provided my mum with a blank copy a few years ago which she took to my Grandad's funeral in the hope that partner would sign it. She didn't of course. After his funeral she has completely ignored all contact from us.

Ooh I'll have to tell my husband. I wonder if things have changed, because it was a few years ago since my husband inquired. My husband and his siblings had to get insurance for the grave, in case the headstone ever got damaged. My FIL let the insurance lapse, and it wasn't until a tree came down near my MIL's grave that my husband asked his Dad about the insurance. He assumed my FIL had been paying it, but it turned out he hadn't!

NormasArse · 17/12/2025 19:05

Owly11 · 17/12/2025 08:06

What a helpful response 🙄

I’ve done it. It was what the deceased asked me to do 🤷‍♀️.

BadgernTheGarden · 17/12/2025 20:45

HundredMilesAnHour · 17/12/2025 17:28

Not necessarily. He couldn’t own the grave because he was already deceased. It has to be owned (effectively leased to) by someone living and they don’t have to be the next of kin although the next of kin has a right to ask for the ownership to be transferred to them during the probate process but it seems this wasn’t requested. So she hasn’t done anything wrong here apart from go completely awol.

OP you definitely need legal advice to find out if you have any options.

But the money was not given to her it was for him and his beneficiaries. If I donated money for someone who had died I wouldn't expect what it paid for to go to some random person who just happened to handle the purchase.

I bought it with the money raised so it's mine? Really?

Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 20:57

BadgernTheGarden · 17/12/2025 20:45

But the money was not given to her it was for him and his beneficiaries. If I donated money for someone who had died I wouldn't expect what it paid for to go to some random person who just happened to handle the purchase.

I bought it with the money raised so it's mine? Really?

Edited

Precisely this. She clearly knew full well what she was doing.

If I was in her position I would have immediately halted proceedings and spoke to my partner's dad/children to ensure it went to the right people. I really feel she went out of her way to deceive us under the guise of 'helping us'

OP posts:
HundredMilesAnHour · 18/12/2025 10:07

Iheardagurd · 17/12/2025 20:57

Precisely this. She clearly knew full well what she was doing.

If I was in her position I would have immediately halted proceedings and spoke to my partner's dad/children to ensure it went to the right people. I really feel she went out of her way to deceive us under the guise of 'helping us'

Well you obviously know her better than we do but what do you think she was gaining / has gained from this?

Iheardagurd · 18/12/2025 10:48

HundredMilesAnHour · 18/12/2025 10:07

Well you obviously know her better than we do but what do you think she was gaining / has gained from this?

I don't know her very well, but my pop psychology theory is it's about control and possession. I think she was perhaps worried that due to her not being family that we would exclude her and she would 'lose' my Uncle (obviously we wouldn't have done that) He was a really cool guy and dead charismatic, I think she was infatuated with him.

I can empathise with her feelings to a degree, but to run roughshod over his family and leave his grave unmarked and neglected and not let him be with his parents feels cruel and unusual. And certainly now way to show love and respect to him. It's all so weird.

OP posts:
RescueMeFromThisSilliness · 18/12/2025 15:06

@Iheardagurd I'm so sorry OP, all this is making a sad time so much worse. Flowers

Andthatrightsoon · 18/12/2025 17:00

I'd be interested to know what the total cost of the funeral vs. the GoFundMe amount was.

Iheardagurd · 18/12/2025 18:56

Andthatrightsoon · 18/12/2025 17:00

I'd be interested to know what the total cost of the funeral vs. the GoFundMe amount was.

Us too!

The gofundme raised 8k... I have no idea how much a funeral with a burial costs. He didn't have a wake because of lockdown, so that would have cut a significant part of the funeral costs too. If there was remaining money we would have liked it to go to a charity he supported related to his job (he worked in emergency services).

OP posts:
helpfulperson · 18/12/2025 19:02

To be honest 8K for a burial is not unreasonable. If there was money left over it won't have been much. Average is £5,000 so a better qualify coffin and handles etc, more spent on flowers, posh coffin lining and you can see how it could easily become 8 thousand.

Burial costs - Co-op Funeralcare