Landlord wants to sell

ShiningforLeeBertie · 2025-05-15T13:11:31+00:00

My landlord told me a couple of months ago he wants to sell and if I am interested in buying. I may have been at the start however he wants too much money and the house has several issues. My partner and I found somewhere else and have an offer accepted so are just going through the mortgage application process now. My LL has now been messaging to say he wants to market the house asap but needs vacant possession, and if we can agree a date to end the tenancy. He put the end of July. I have told him I cannot agree a date as I dont know how long the buying process will take, but of course will keep him updated. I have been here since Sep 2009 so from research a notice to quit has to be a minimum of 12 weeks. If he issues a S21, I believe it would fail as the house is not compliant. He had a elec safety check done in 2021 and the house failed, with some faults listed as "dangerous". He has not done the work needed to make it compliant. There are also other issues but none where he has failed to meet his legal obligations. I believe the GSC from 2024 has also expired and he has made no attempt to have that checked at all. I don't want to be an arse about it, but I'm also not prepared to make myself homeless just so he can sell. He said he doesnt want to miss out on another property but tbh thats not my concern, he shouldnt have looked at others until he had vacant possession of this place. There is no agent involved, no deposit as he didnt take one (hes my ex-wifes ex boss, she moved out in 2017 and I stayed here). I have said I will give him dates as soon as I have them, I dont want to be here any longer than I have to be, but I can tell that he will keep trying to pressure me into leaving earlier than I need to. I just want to know my rights as a tenant, and also him not fulfilling his legal obligations (which I have reminded him of constantly and have evidence of him saying he knows he needs to sort it etc). My tenancy is just something he downloaded from the internet and makes no mention of notice periods etc. Thank you

justkeepswimingswiming · 15/05/2025 14:14

Legally he has no leg to stand on. He shouldn’t of rented it out with dangerous electrical faults and should of fixed them immediately. A s21 will not stand — have you had a yearly gas safety check? As that’s also part of it. He’d be laughed out of court as it all needs to be correct before he can go to court to get you out.
just stay put.

Spirallingdownwards · 15/05/2025 14:16

You will be fine. Even if he could serve a valid s21 notice he would probably not want to go to the expense of starting eviction and the whole process takes a long time. Hang on in there and say you will let him know when you can leave when you know yourself.

Original poster

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 14:24

This is the latest message he just sent me......I'm not sure how to reply to this

I totally understand your predicament and your desire not to leave the property until you found somewhere else, however these things can be extremely unpredictable in terms of time frames and actually proceeding to completion and unfortunately, I cannot wait indefinitely or be subject to the unpredictable nature of these transactions.
Consequently, as suggested earlier, I would like to suggest that your tenancy ends at the end of July, but for convenience sake the 2nd of August 2025.

So it does seem he wants it all his own way, I know he cannot end a tenancy via Whatsapp and has to follow the correct procedure, but I am also loathe to tell him that.

I honestly feel like telling him he has subjected me to unsafe/dangerous conditions by not sorting out the works in time (as he is legally required to do), I also don't feel as it is my role to educate him on the correct legal procedures (he is a former solicitor so he should know the law, or if not how to find out what he has to do).

OP posts:

dogcatkitten · 15/05/2025 14:33

Reply in a similar vein, 'I'm sure you will understand that this date is not going to be convenient for me, much as I would like to help you out. Rest assured I will let you know as soon as I have a date when I can end the tenancy.'

Mrsbloggz · 15/05/2025 14:35

Of course he wants it all his own way, luckily he's not being subtle about it so you can see right through him and make sure you get it all your own way.
You have the upper hand here op, use your advantage to its fullest extent 😈

Original poster

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 14:47

Thanks all, I replied with...
I'm sure you will understand that this date may be convenient for me, much as I would like to help you out I also have to protect the interests of myself and my family. Rest assured I will let you know as soon as I have a date when I can end the tenancy legally

which has not been read yet. I dont want to be an arse about it, but I dont want to roll over and make myself homeless even for a night, not that it will but maybe me sticking to my rights will make him realise that him not following his legal obligations is going to come back and bite him on the arse.

OP posts:

GofE · 15/05/2025 14:49

Sounds like your landlord has given you 12 weeks notice (as in, notified you a couple of months ago and now giving until end of July).

So, done correctly.

The property non-compliances is a separate issue from end of tenancy notice.

Spirallingdownwards · 15/05/2025 14:49

I would respond in a similar vein :

I will give formal notice of when I wish to terminate the tenancy when I know when I am able to leave.

I am sure he knows full well that if he wishes to serve notice he needs to serve a valid s21 followed by lengthy eviction process which costs money. He is trying to exert pressure on you to leave and as stressful as it may seem just ignore him.

If he serves an incorrect s21 then issues the first thing to do would be to defend it on the basis of an invalid s21 and the court will throw it out when it eventually gets to them.

I think he is just trying bully boy tactics to get you to go. Stand firm. Send the one response and then don't engage further.

Spirallingdownwards · 15/05/2025 14:50

GofE · 15/05/2025 14:49

Sounds like your landlord has given you 12 weeks notice (as in, notified you a couple of months ago and now giving until end of July).

So, done correctly.

The property non-compliances is a separate issue from end of tenancy notice.

Not done correctly. He hasn't served a formal s21 notice.

Invalid gas certificate and electrical certificates means he can't serve a valid s21 is my understanding too.

WallaceinAnderland · 15/05/2025 14:50

Good reply. Wait and see what his response is, but the best thing to do is keep reiterating what you've just said no matter what he replies. Don't give any more reasons or explanations as he will just argue against them. Stick to what you've said and say no more.

Mrsbloggz · 15/05/2025 14:51

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 14:47

Thanks all, I replied with...
I'm sure you will understand that this date may be convenient for me, much as I would like to help you out I also have to protect the interests of myself and my family. Rest assured I will let you know as soon as I have a date when I can end the tenancy legally

which has not been read yet. I dont want to be an arse about it, but I dont want to roll over and make myself homeless even for a night, not that it will but maybe me sticking to my rights will make him realise that him not following his legal obligations is going to come back and bite him on the arse.

I think you're being too nice.
I wouldn't be informing him that I'm a sensible level headed person who knows what they're worth and will be protecting my own interests. I'd let him carry on thinking you're a bit of an idiot who is easy to exploit. That way he won't work too hard to screw you over and it'll be easier for you to get the best outcome for yourself.

DrPrunesqualer · 15/05/2025 14:54

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 14:24

This is the latest message he just sent me......I'm not sure how to reply to this

I totally understand your predicament and your desire not to leave the property until you found somewhere else, however these things can be extremely unpredictable in terms of time frames and actually proceeding to completion and unfortunately, I cannot wait indefinitely or be subject to the unpredictable nature of these transactions.
Consequently, as suggested earlier, I would like to suggest that your tenancy ends at the end of July, but for convenience sake the 2nd of August 2025.

So it does seem he wants it all his own way, I know he cannot end a tenancy via Whatsapp and has to follow the correct procedure, but I am also loathe to tell him that.

I honestly feel like telling him he has subjected me to unsafe/dangerous conditions by not sorting out the works in time (as he is legally required to do), I also don't feel as it is my role to educate him on the correct legal procedures (he is a former solicitor so he should know the law, or if not how to find out what he has to do).

Just reply with
‘We are in the process of a property purchase and will keep you updated when the completion date is set.
As it stands we cannot confirm your August deadline.
Please consult with your solicitor if you are not aware of our rights in this regard’

Then leave it
If he issues a s21 it won’t make any difference to you as it takes ages for the first court hearing and unless he does the GSC and everything else the s21 will be thrown out until he does.
You’ve got plenty time OP

If you can phrase a polite ‘please stop harassing us ‘ comment then that might help. Perhaps other MNetters have a polite way of putting it….I’m struggling with that one I’m afraid 🤣🤣

Original poster

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 15:00

DrPrunesqualer · 15/05/2025 14:54

Just reply with
‘We are in the process of a property purchase and will keep you updated when the completion date is set.
As it stands we cannot confirm your August deadline.
Please consult with your solicitor if you are not aware of our rights in this regard’

Then leave it
If he issues a s21 it won’t make any difference to you as it takes ages for the first court hearing and unless he does the GSC and everything else the s21 will be thrown out until he does.
You’ve got plenty time OP

If you can phrase a polite ‘please stop harassing us ‘ comment then that might help. Perhaps other MNetters have a polite way of putting it….I’m struggling with that one I’m afraid 🤣🤣

Show quote history

I was loathe to say to him to find out about his rights, as I said I am not willing to educate him, and he certainly wasnt willing to educate himself when it came to the EIHR etc.

He hasn't given me the correct 12 weeks notice, as its only today he has said that he would like to end the tenancy (I am aware that only a tenant or court can end a tenancy), so the 12 weeks from today is at best 7 August.

I have said I will let him know as soon as I know, but thats not good enough for him (I know he is only interested in his own situation, much as I am with mine) however he is not the one that will have no roof over his head.

OP posts:

DrPrunesqualer · 15/05/2025 15:02

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 15:00

I was loathe to say to him to find out about his rights, as I said I am not willing to educate him, and he certainly wasnt willing to educate himself when it came to the EIHR etc.

He hasn't given me the correct 12 weeks notice, as its only today he has said that he would like to end the tenancy (I am aware that only a tenant or court can end a tenancy), so the 12 weeks from today is at best 7 August.

I have said I will let him know as soon as I know, but thats not good enough for him (I know he is only interested in his own situation, much as I am with mine) however he is not the one that will have no roof over his head.

Show quote history

The last line of
’please consult with your solicitor if you are not aware of our rights’
Wasn’t really offering advice tbh was really saying

we are aware of our rights so stop harassing us.

Original poster

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 15:11

His latest message...

I can understand that, but it’s also a two way street. You need to look after your family but I do need to sell the property. I also did start the conversation about this in February.
There is an option that I serve you with a Section 21 Notice which is a ‘Notice requiring possession of a property in England let on an assured short hold tenancy’, I am reluctant to do this because of the formality and I was hoping that we could agree a date between us.
So could you suggest a date?
Thanks

So he knows of the S21 notice, but I'm in 2 minds whether to say that will fail due to the non-compliance. I could just do without all of this stress at the moment tbh.

OP posts:

Doggymummar · 15/05/2025 15:18

I would just say something like, if all goes well we can be out by Christmas, but I will give you the legally due notice of this, which I understand to be xxx months. If that doesn't suit I understand your predicament.

justkeepswimingswiming · 15/05/2025 15:20

He doesn’t want to serve a s21 as it’ll cost him money he obviously doesn’t have — he also knows it won’t stand as the property is unsafe.
I would just reply as I’ve already stated I am unable to provide a date, please consult with your solicitor. I will keep you informed going forwards when I know more.

DrPrunesqualer · 15/05/2025 15:30

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 15:11

His latest message...

I can understand that, but it’s also a two way street. You need to look after your family but I do need to sell the property. I also did start the conversation about this in February.
There is an option that I serve you with a Section 21 Notice which is a ‘Notice requiring possession of a property in England let on an assured short hold tenancy’, I am reluctant to do this because of the formality and I was hoping that we could agree a date between us.
So could you suggest a date?
Thanks

So he knows of the S21 notice, but I'm in 2 minds whether to say that will fail due to the non-compliance. I could just do without all of this stress at the moment tbh.

I wouldn’t bother advising him anything, that’s on him.
I see his comment as a veiled threat that he will serve it. I’m sure he knows he’s not compliant but he doesn’t know you do.
Just tell him you’re buying a property, it’s going through, average time is 16 weeks ( which it is at the moment as we’ve sold recently) and that you can’t advice anymore as you have no idea and neither does your legal team.

id use the term ‘legal team’ it sounds like you have your band of warriors by your side.
Just ‘solicitor’ sounds like a one man band and not so scarey 🤣🤣

dogcatkitten · 15/05/2025 15:30

ShiningforLeeBertie · 15/05/2025 15:11

His latest message...

I can understand that, but it’s also a two way street. You need to look after your family but I do need to sell the property. I also did start the conversation about this in February.
There is an option that I serve you with a Section 21 Notice which is a ‘Notice requiring possession of a property in England let on an assured short hold tenancy’, I am reluctant to do this because of the formality and I was hoping that we could agree a date between us.
So could you suggest a date?
Thanks

So he knows of the S21 notice, but I'm in 2 minds whether to say that will fail due to the non-compliance. I could just do without all of this stress at the moment tbh.

I would reply, 'I agree it would be much better to settle this between ourselves, but unfortunately at the minute I am in no position to agree a fixed date, if under the circumstances you feel you must start a Section 21 notice I will understand.'

Then if he does bat it back with the illegalities.

PomPomSugar · 15/05/2025 15:35

We are going through exactly the same and I have taken legal advise and happy to share -

Never tell the other party their rights. They should take their own advice.
A tenancy agreement can only be ended in three ways. a. Mutual agreement b. By eviction from the courts c. By YOU providing the notice as set out in your tenancy agreement.
If they serve a section 21 notice this has to be on the prescribed form and has to be valid. Yours would be automatically be invalid because the deposit wasn’t protected as it wasn’t taken at all!
In any event, the date on the section 21 notice isn’t the date you have to be out, it’s the earliest date they can aply to the courts to begin the eviction process

Mumofoneandone · 15/05/2025 15:36

Maybe contact citizens advice or shelter for some advice. Particularly regarding the lack of legal maintenance of the property. Check whether you should still be paying rent on a non compliant house
Equally, unless he has someone lined up for a sale, it's going to take time to market and sell the property anyway. Whilst he might want a vacant property to sell, this might not be feasible.....

DrPrunesqualer · 15/05/2025 15:41

PomPomSugar · 15/05/2025 15:35

We are going through exactly the same and I have taken legal advise and happy to share -

Never tell the other party their rights. They should take their own advice.
A tenancy agreement can only be ended in three ways. a. Mutual agreement b. By eviction from the courts c. By YOU providing the notice as set out in your tenancy agreement.
If they serve a section 21 notice this has to be on the prescribed form and has to be valid. Yours would be automatically be invalid because the deposit wasn’t protected as it wasn’t taken at all!
In any event, the date on the section 21 notice isn’t the date you have to be out, it’s the earliest date they can aply to the courts to begin the eviction process

Landlord didn't take a deposit so he doesn’t need it in a deposit scheme so it’s irrelevant re the s21.
When there’s no deposit scheme Judges insist deposits are returned in full ( sometimes there’s compensation too but that’s up to the judge and the circumstances). So all LLs have to do is give the deposit back before issuing the s21

TeenagersAngst · 15/05/2025 15:45

I'm not sure where you're getting 12 weeks from. A S21 must include at least two month's notice.

But it doesn't sound like the S21 would even be valid as other posters have said. Just ignore his communication now. You've made your point clear.

PomPomSugar · 15/05/2025 15:45

DrPrunesqualer · 15/05/2025 15:41

Landlord didn't take a deposit so he doesn’t need it in a deposit scheme so it’s irrelevant re the s21.
When there’s no deposit scheme Judges insist deposits are returned in full ( sometimes there’s compensation too but that’s up to the judge and the circumstances). So all LLs have to do is give the deposit back before issuing the s21

Show quote history

If he has failed to provide the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate and how to rent guide it is also invalid.

DrPrunesqualer · 15/05/2025 15:49

PomPomSugar · 15/05/2025 15:45

If he has failed to provide the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate and how to rent guide it is also invalid.

Show quote history

Obviously but I was just referring to the deposit / s21 non issue.

although if LLs are savvy they just hand over the guide, get the GSC etc sorted then a few days later the s21.

Even if OPs LL did all this she has loads of time before she could legally be kicked out