Who has the right to decide what happens to ashes?

[averylongtimeago]

My FiL and MiL passed away over 10 years ago, and were cremated. My DH’s brother was executor and dealt with the funerals but the ashes have never been collected and are still with the funeral director. BiL recently passed away as well and now his wife is claiming that only she will be able to collect the ashes and will decide how they are dealt with. This doesn’t seem right to us, as there is a surviving child (my DH). Can anyone with some legal expertise advise please? Can my DH collect his parents ashes and dispose of them in a way agreed with the grandchildren, or does my SiL have to do it?

Interesting. So if your BIL was the only executor and arranged the cremations then he has the right to possess the ashes and to dispose of them, but what happens now I have no idea. Bumping for you.

I would have thought that a sensible funeral director would release the ashes to your DH on proof of identity. He is a blood relative of the deceased and the SIL isn't.

I’d be surprised if the crematorium still has them. My grandad’s were scattered at the crem garden while my gran dithered about what to do with them! She took a long time, but less than ten years.

I would agree. My understanding was that the undertaker would agree to store them for a limited time then pass them on to the crem to scatter.

Here is what Google has told me

In the UK, funeral directors are required to keep unclaimed ashes for at least five years before deciding what to do with them. They must make every effort to contact the next of kin or rightful recipient before disposing of the ashes. If the ashes remain unclaimed after five years, they are typically scattered in a garden of remembrance or other designated location.

Elaboration:

• Five-Year Holding Period:
• The National Association of Funeral Directors (NAFD) guidelines, which are not legally binding but widely followed, stipulate that unclaimed ashes should be held for at least five years.
• Efforts to Locate:
• Funeral directors are obligated to make reasonable attempts to locate the family or designated recipient of the ashes during this period. This may involve contacting individuals named in the deceased's will or other documents.
• Disposal Options:
• If the ashes remain unclaimed after five years, funeral directors may scatter them in a designated area, such as a garden of remembrance or a cemetery. Some crematoria also offer options like interment in a columbarium.
• No Legal Right to Ashes:
• In the UK, ashes are not considered the property of anyone, not even the family. The goal is to ensure that they are handled with respect and placed in a location that reflects the deceased's wishes or, if unknown, a dignified memorial.

They may have been passed to the crematorium but not necessarily scattered. They can be kept for years if it's on record that that's what the family wanted. It's worth a call, to them and or the funeral directors, to find out. As your DH I'd try just ringing, saying who he is and asking if he can collect them (may need to show ID) if they are there. Easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission and all that. Plus it's his parents.

My DH wasn’t executor but collected his mum’s ashes and scattered them, in the absence of his siblings who live abroad and who were the executors.

I don’t understand why your DH has the sudden interest in his parents’ ashes when they’ve been sitting around at the funeral director’s for 10 years. Was he in communication with his brother before he passed away? Did he think his brother had dealt with them and now found out he hadn’t ? Like pp im very surprised that the funeral director hasn’t chased up BIL a lot sooner.

Why would SIL not just collect them and hand them over to your DH given he’s the son of the deceased? It seems petty not to.

10 years? Has your DP only found out now or was there a row or did he just not care enough to sort it out sooner. Not trying to be harsh, but leaving ashes for this long is incredibly odd and very, very sad. Also I don’t think the undertakers are obliged to keep them for this long.

Your DP needs to contact the undertakers directly to understand:

1. If they are still in possession of the ashes
2. If they are then what is the protocol for releasing them to family

How terribly sad.

Thank you to those giving genuine advice. In answer to some of your questions, family relationships are complicated. DH and BiL have not always seen eye to eye and now we no longer live in the same country. And yes, SiL really is that petty.

I would ring the funeral directors and the crematorium and ask if they still have the ashes, who can come and collect them if they are still there, was anything written in the will or funeral plan, why has it taken 10 years. What plans are there for Bil funeral, is he being cremated and his wife wants them all together? I can't imagine they ever "belonged" to sil unless some sort of agreement was made when they or bil died.

I think SIL is being petty and will find out that the ashes are no longer at the crem. Can your DH call the funeral directors/crem and ask?

Why is this now an issue given that the por sods have been languishing on a funeral directors shelf for 10 years? Your DH hasn't been bothered all this time, so, nor had recently deceased BiL.

Why has it taken 10 years? Because families are complicated- and if one brother won’t talk to the other, breaks off contact and won’t answer questions, what can you do?
Now we are trying to sort out this issue that BiL refused to discuss.

Families are complicated things and the death of a relative you didn’t see eye to eye with, can be particularly difficult to deal with, I feel for your dh.

first port of call is to speak to the funeral director- explain that BIL has now died and you understand your PILs ashes where never collected by him. Ask if they still have them and if so, what information would DH need to provide for them to release them to him. Don’t mention SIL at this point.

If the funeral directors have already scattered them, at least you know you can ignore SILs nonsense. If they have got them, they may well happily release to the deceased other child.

Are you sure they still have them? Most will scatter after 5 years.

They will have been scattered. 100%.

I know of one instance where it was more than 5 years and they hadn't. Less than 10 years though. And in the UK.

Ringing and asking is the way to know.

What do you think your in-laws would want you and your family to do, they are gone, it's been 10 years and is ts obviously still causing distress, anger and prolonging the grieving process for you all. Scattering ashes is very symbolic, we arranged for our parents to be together, it also gives people a chance to say goodbye and focus. Would it be possible that you, your dh and your children remember them in a slightly different way instead, maybe visit their favourite spot, plant something they liked, make up a memory box, you don't n33d sil in your life, has bil funeral taken place yet.

Telephone or visit the funeral director

We have telephoned the undertaker and waiting for a reply.
This is not my decision to make- DH has tried to find out what BiL wanted to do- and been blanked. There is a favourite place- but it has been impossible to organise anything with no contact.
Bil’s funeral has taken place, for those who asked.

Maybe bil executor now has the responsibility of handling and storing the ashes, it sounds very difficult,I hope it can easily be resolved for your dh and the grandchildren, if sil acts up I'd just have our own special ceremony in their favourite happy place.

If you do manage to retrieve them be careful about the legality of where you scatter them. The Gov.uk web site offers guidance.

Human ashes are very lightweight so if there’s a breeze, dont stand downwind.

You may also be surprised about how much ash there is. We scattered my de-facto B in Law on a quiet beach below the tide water line but it seemed to take ages as there was so much of it.

I’d just go. Collect the ashes.