Ex’s family court application

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friendshipbracelets · Today 04:44

Ex dp has children by two women. I’m the second woman - two kids. I caught him having an affair and he has since moved in with his affair partner, 30 years younger with no kids. Kids stayed living with me. For two years he has had as much contact as he wants, after school and at weekends. Picking them up from mine. Taking them for a meal/ swim/ shopping/ to the park or for activities. Sometimes for trips/ meals as a family (with me included). It’s been (mostly) fairly friendly considering the nightmare he put us through. He’s also taken them to his parents. The only times he hasn’t had contact is when he hasn’t wanted it/ has had other stuff to do. But now he’s going to the family court applying for them to stay with him every other weekend and one evening a week/ pressuring me to reach an agreement so we don’t go to court. He lives with the affair partner who the kids have never met (older child is aware of her existence and part in relationship breakdown). I am uncomfortable naturally at the thought of the two of them playing happy families with my kids. But he is saying she’s not going to be there when they visit - says she has “no ambition to meet the kids” and will move out when they come. I find this implausible - she rents the house with him, where on earth is she going to go on such a regular basis and why would anyone in their right mind agree to do that? Am worried this is either a deception to try and make me agree to something I’m not comfortable with (and then, suddenly, she will be there after all) or, if I take what he is saying at face value and she doesn’t want to meet them, a weird situation to put my kids in, staying in the girlfriend’s home with the girlfriend avoiding them. In the CAFCASS report, ex partner for reasons known only to himself painted a picture of a much more hostile relationship than we in fact have and the recommendation was that he have contact with the kids away from my home (it’s not at my home anyway - that’s just where he picks them up). No mention of where contact should be, though it said both parents agreed kids enjoyed going to paternal grandparents. That’s a distance away though and would not be possible on a weekday and unfair in my view to make them even do it every other weekend. What do you think a family judge would make of all this? How to interpret the CAFCASS report? Would court order regular stays at his home on this basis?

In reality you can't really enforce a court order either, not without a lot of hassle and expense. All you can do is make the children available for contact at times specified in the order. What he does will still be up to him.

I have really no fear of him going for 50/50 - he’s normally done after about 15 minutes of park play… and back they come! I am AMAZED we are where we are

He once left after about 15 seconds because child was acting up over putting shoes on!

Agree to it, remain neutral, if he doesn’t show say to the kids oh no that’s a shame why don’t you call dad and see why he couldn’t make it. Kids aren’t stupid they’ll soon learn without your help. He will ruin it by himself, let him.

though I can’t figure out what is bothering you. Started as kids meeting the OW and you aren’t happy about it but kindly, tough. He is doing to you what you were happy to do with his kids from the woman before you. How he was with you should be telling.

then you say he drinks and she must too or how else would you be with someone like that. Do you day drink into the evening? I’ll guess not so your rational thinking knows it’s possible.

you seem to have dropped the kids meeting OW when many have told you that it’s up to him and you can’t stop it and YABU and moved to him being flaky.

I can imagine the hatred and resentment you feel because of how he treated you but ask yourself, after all he did, does he deserve to have that hold over you? It will be harder to let it go than it will to hold onto it but it will be freeing.

Have asked myself this! Have wondered whether pressure from new GF (it’s not a proper relationship because I don’t know your kids - but that‘s inconsistent with him saying she has no ambition to meet them). Or maybe her not liking the time he spends at mine/ with me. Or familial pressure/ social pressure. I think he is very deluded about his low threshold for child care and thinks of himself as a good dad. I also think he believes that, whatever agreement is in place, he can continue to do what he likes and let me step in and cover (as I have always had to do) so it will just be an extra weapon

If he's usually only interested in short visits, ad hoc, and nis now asking for proper time I suspect one of two things has happened:

1 He wants to reduce whatever child payments he is making (or you have now asked for proper child payments and he doesn't want to pay).

2 Someone, most likely his partner and/or parents, have made him feel that he needs to be stepping up more (whether or not he will is irrelevant).

His partner being in or out of the house is completely irrelevnt to the court. So drop that as an issue.

If he has not had the children overnight at all, you could arguably suggest a period where you build up to this level of contact - eg perhaps one night every second week to start, then one night plus the mid week, then EOW plus one night in the week.

As I understand it, if you go through this route formally, even if you don't actually GO to court, the court would stamp it and sign it off? In which case, theoretically, he would have to abide by th enew guidelines (and you could include under what conditions ad hoc visits/trips/contact would be okay). But enforcing that would be difficult.

If you believe his drinking genuinely is an issue (and I'm afriad it's hard to really believe you do because otherwise why are you so relaxed about him taking the kids out all the time), you could use this as a reason why he should not be granted overnights. But I think you would need real proof of potential harm not just a general, "he drinks to much".

I am inclined to say that once you agree the new contact arrangements, the best you can do is act as if he will do whatever it is he has agreed to. If he doesn't, make sure you go back to court to ensure you then go back to the increased CMS payments.

And I think the court application has overstated what he wants to panic me into agreeing what he actually wants (still not clear)

You can not enforce the contact schedule only he would be able to. You have to make the children available, he doesn't have to turn up. Its completely shit but it's really not worth the fight unless your other concerns are more pressing.

How do you think he would react if you reply saying this is an excellent idea and it will suit you so much better having a clear consistent schedule because you’ll have time to plan social things for yourself?

Even if you had a court order it cannot be enforced by you. Only the nrp can enforce it you wouldn’t be able to for him being late or not turning up. It’s unfairly stacked that way to the resident parent.

I would agree it. You seem to amicably work with it at the moment so it’s in the children’s best interest that that continues but that time with their dad is at his home and is overnight.
seeing cafcass and the nonsense fed to her by her mum absolutely destroyed my sd, there were no concerns other than that I had moved in with him. I never let my children see cafcass I agreed a contact schedule and we had it drawn up in court and that was that after what I saw my sd go through - it’s been a huge contribution to her mental health and her teenage years.
don’t put your children through unnecessary hoops when he’ll get it anyway, better energy to support them through the exciting change of being in dads new home and remaining a consistent and stable parent for days they are with you

I haven’t dropped the OW issue - I remain not happy with it (but am told I have to lump it! ) I was urged by someone on this thread to explain other issues and I did so.

”How he was with you should he telling”. I was not the OW, it that’s what you’re getting at.

Day drinking point - I know his life very much revolves around eating out and drinking! When I first met him, we had boozy lunch dates etc but work + kids put an end to that. That is, however, what he will be doing now!

I do worry about his drinking, which was a problem when we were together. The contact he has now is early evening/ weekend mornings to early afternoon, when he feels like it and is able to get here, so we swerve the problem.

They haven’t seen CAFCASS - when/ what age does that happen? Phone interviews only. And I feed them no nonsense.

I didn’t bring the courts/ CAFCASS in. None of this is my doing!

Op even with a court order he can still decide not to turn up, to return the kids early or be ridiculously late to collect. The awful part is that no court can actually force him to see the kids at any particular time - it just means the kids have to be available for contact.

Formalising contact by order doesn't mean he'll stick to it.

It took years of 'im not sure why Daddy isn't coming' because he's a fuckwit and lots of counselling for my kids and myself, to get to a place of 'we might be seeing dad this weekend, let's make a plan B just in case' which then turned into not even realising it was dad's weekend.

Im assuming he doesn't drink and then drive? And that he doesn't get drunk while in charge of the children? If he was doing either of the above I'd say to raise that as a safeguarding issue. If he's just drinking 'normally' line any other parent might, then there's not a lot you can do. No one questions custody of children whose parents are together and drink a few glasses of wine when the kids are home.

Re messing with arrangements - this is where a court mandated schedule will help you. If he flakes on his day, you are under no obligation to accommodate him on another day of his choosing. You may agree a swap if it suits you but you don't have to for his convenience. It would only be reasonable for him to expect a change if there were extenuating circumstances, like him being in hospital or a genuine emergency. You don't have to let him come and go as he pleases on additional days.
Possibly he doesn't fully 'get' what he's doing but again, not your problem. And definitive custody arrangements mean the child support can be sorted based on how many nights he has them.
In your shoes I'd sign this agreement, not point out how he might be shooting himsrlf in the foot and then let him live by the consequences.

If you push it all the way to a court hearing without agreeing something they will instruct cafcass to speak with your children and make a report on that.
My sd was 9/10 when this started. If you can avoid putting your children through this process you should.
he isn’t asking for anything abnormal and maybe his side of the story is that he always has to ring and ask you to see his children. Maybe he wants a schedule that he knows what’s happening and when and ultimately that will bring stability for his children and his relationship with them.

I get your hurt, it’s awful I know but you need to separate the two and agree a formal contact schedule with overnights or a court will almost certainly do it for you

Yea rightly so you should drop it.

no I’m not saying you were the OW, I’m saying, how was he with you when you met with his existing kids that should be telling.

the drinking is a valid reason for concern and may well be looked at in your favour.

I reiterate what I said, if you feel they will be safe, allow him to fail and make him be the one to tell the kids when he can’t make it.

if you’re right about this then it won’t last long will it

No, they won't care. It won't be an issue

We live in a city and mostly get around on public transport so this is not a day-to-day issue but he did have a car and he did drive with the kids when had drunk and was in my opinion over the limit. I said this to CAFCASS and yet they have concluded that there is no evidence of his alcohol consumption. This was surprising to me as I thought there was quite a bit of evidence in their own report, dating back to his first wife. I can’t really think what evidence they want short of a driving disqualification. He now says he doesn’t have a car but I know he has access to one.

Just what I was thinking
forget court order ( cost money anyway)
just agree and watch it fail.
don’t even thinking about what him and ow may or may not be thinking/ doing / saying.
do not believe anything he says anyway.
I know it’s very burns but the best revenge is a life well lived

If you think the status quo will continue after court anyway then I would just internally roll my eyes and do what was asked without letting it bother me in any way. He's causing himself stress and expense for nothing.

Although other posters have said you need to make the children available on 'his' days, that doesn't mean you have to sit at home and wait for him to rock up when he feels like it - if the agreement says he collects at 10am, then unless he calls to explain why he's delayed, I'd be giving him til 11am and then going out.
Keep proper notes about dates he fails to turn up or drops them off really early or generally flakes, just in case you do need to return to court or argue for increased child support.

Why would the court take this into account? It means absolutely nothing and just proves that your main issue with all of this is the other woman.

You do realise that parents go through court for much worse issues including drugs, unsafe situations and abuse etc and STILL end up being able to keep their children. If you raised any of this to a judge they would laugh because it does in fact just make you look like the bitter ex.

Put your feelings aside and just agree to a trial of him having the kids over night as he’s suggested. See how it goes for everyone involved.

okay, thanks Daisychain! Not sure you have read this chain. Bitter ex I must be - what a very supportive conclusion

He hasn’t suggested a trial of having the kids over for a night - he’s after a court order

But now he’s going to the family court applying for them to stay with him every other weekend and one evening a week/ pressuring me to reach an agreement so we don’t go to court.

This is what you wrote in your original post. He doesn’t want to go to court, he wants you to let him have the children over night and you’re obviously not agreeing which is leaving him no choice.

If you had just said yes, he wouldn’t need to take it to court and you wouldn’t be writing this post asking for advice.