Ex’s family court application

[friendshipbracelets]

friendshipbracelets · Today 04:44

Ex dp has children by two women. I’m the second woman - two kids. I caught him having an affair and he has since moved in with his affair partner, 30 years younger with no kids. Kids stayed living with me. For two years he has had as much contact as he wants, after school and at weekends. Picking them up from mine. Taking them for a meal/ swim/ shopping/ to the park or for activities. Sometimes for trips/ meals as a family (with me included). It’s been (mostly) fairly friendly considering the nightmare he put us through. He’s also taken them to his parents. The only times he hasn’t had contact is when he hasn’t wanted it/ has had other stuff to do. But now he’s going to the family court applying for them to stay with him every other weekend and one evening a week/ pressuring me to reach an agreement so we don’t go to court. He lives with the affair partner who the kids have never met (older child is aware of her existence and part in relationship breakdown). I am uncomfortable naturally at the thought of the two of them playing happy families with my kids. But he is saying she’s not going to be there when they visit - says she has “no ambition to meet the kids” and will move out when they come. I find this implausible - she rents the house with him, where on earth is she going to go on such a regular basis and why would anyone in their right mind agree to do that? Am worried this is either a deception to try and make me agree to something I’m not comfortable with (and then, suddenly, she will be there after all) or, if I take what he is saying at face value and she doesn’t want to meet them, a weird situation to put my kids in, staying in the girlfriend’s home with the girlfriend avoiding them. In the CAFCASS report, ex partner for reasons known only to himself painted a picture of a much more hostile relationship than we in fact have and the recommendation was that he have contact with the kids away from my home (it’s not at my home anyway - that’s just where he picks them up). No mention of where contact should be, though it said both parents agreed kids enjoyed going to paternal grandparents. That’s a distance away though and would not be possible on a weekday and unfair in my view to make them even do it every other weekend. What do you think a family judge would make of all this? How to interpret the CAFCASS report? Would court order regular stays at his home on this basis?

The other aspects that you don't want to discuss, might be relevant and influence the advice you are given.
On the assumption that there's no safeguarding risk, I would think that getting a nailed on contact (and child support) agreement works in your favour. You won't have him coming and going at will, you can hold him to the terms of the agreement and everyone knows where they stand. And although it seems unfair for you to be without your children every other weekend for a reason that wasn't your fault, I think it's good to get some time purely for yourself when you are a single parent.

You know from experience that your ex is a liar and he doesn't have your back - this application and the way he's gone about it, proves he's not your friend and now you can establish a proper boundary and treat him purely as a coparent and keep it businesslike, instead of muddying the water by treating him like family.
Imo the way he's gone about this is shitting in his own nest - it didn't need to be a hostile thing if he was seeing the dc frequently.
As for paternal grandparents, that's a 'not your circus' situation. Let him figure it out. If they live too far to travel every other weekend, the kids will eventually make their feelings known to their dad.

Make sure he pays proper CS if he wants to go down this formal route.

I’m afraid the affair is nothing to do with child contact, and as much as I know it hurts, you need to take that out of the equation. Also your dc meeting the ow is inevitable and you can’t stop that happening during his contact time (as long as the dc are safe), the same way he can’t tell you what to do when the dc are with you. I think you need to try and find some peace around this and accept it. Maybe councilling will help?

Why would the court have concerns about that? Unless you have evidence that she is a safeguarding risk to your children, it makes no difference whether she is there or not. Even if the court thinks he is being untruthful about this, it is unlikely to make any difference to the outcome. Indeed, the court may think he is just trying to keep the peace with you, aware that you might not want the children to meet his new partner.

As others have said, unless there is something you aren't telling us he is likely to get the contact he is requesting. Taking this to court just because you don't believe him regarding his girlfriend won't go well for you.

There are no welfare concerns. Even if he's telling a lie re gf, is she a risk? You have to trust him to make the decisions when the children are in his care. They've been together 2 years and actually would only be natural the children meet the partner.

The court won't care, and they'll grant that requests - I can see why your spidey senses are tingling, but unless you can figure out his game, I don't see what else you can do.

Will it change anything maintenance wise? Do you think he'll be reliable?

You're making this about you. You don't know her and what she might have in mind. Maybe she has parents with a mansion she can go to when she wants.

Don't waste your energy trying to convince other that her choice is odd and get them to agree. In many ways, it's irrelevant at this stage. If anything was to come out that you think puts your kids safety at risk, that would be the time to raise your concerns. Not now when what you ascertain is vague and biased.

You could agree to the every other weekend plus 1 weeknight schedule, and ask him to inform you of any changes to that schedule well in advance and for a heads up for if and when gf decides she is going to meet the kids, since the eldest at least is likely to have a fairly strong reaction to that.
If there’s a 30 year age gap between their dad and his partner, then I’m guessing the gap between the age of his children and the partner is actually smaller than that, and if the kids are teenagers they may well find the whole thing weird and gross.
Obviously you can ask for things and there’s no guarantee your ex will give you that courtesy, but if you agree to the reasonable contact request without subjecting you both to court, then he might might be more willing to be courteous.

They genuinely won't care. If the girlfriend doesn't pose any risk to the children and he's simply asking for the children to stay over at his house whether the girlfriend is there or not is irrelevant. This is not an issue to go to court over.

What do you actually want? Because you have so far been active in preventing the children from building a relationship with this woman, yet you seem scornful of the suggestion that she leaves her own home in order to facilitate the children seeing their dad more flexibly.

Maybe your ex is lying about his partners plans to move out her own home every time the children visit, because he knows that otherwise you would put barriers in the way as has been the case so far. Maybe she does actually plan on not being around, because she doesn’t want to be drawn in to a situation where she is everyone’s whipping boy. But ultimately, your ex is going to get overnights and your children are going to meet and spend time with this woman at some point. You can’t stop this from happening forever, and it’s counter productive to you and your children to battle over this.

Court won't give a shit about if she's there or not. Unless there are actual serious concerns that would impact the dc, he can have anyone he wants around the kids during his contact time.

Tough as that is to hear, sorry op

Sorry, how have I been active in putting up barriers and preventing my children from having a relationship with this woman? It hasn’t ever come up that they should meet her and even now, having made this application, he is saying she won’t.

Kids are not teens yet - one nowhere near

Just agree with the contact. Court don't care about anything except he is punching them I the face or SA them.

There is no issue with what he’s requesting.

Him having an affair is a completely separate issue to the custody of the children.

It’s very likely this woman will be around in the house in the future and I’m afraid that’s something you just had to deal with. If he’s planning on having a serious future with this woman (and given the fact they live together I would say so) she is going to be in your children’s lives. The best thing you can do is let them know that it’s ok to be around her and even like her.

The way they treat her and how the react to the situation will very much be lead by how they think you want them to feel. So make it known that it’s ok for them to be around her.

Don’t let this go to court. He’s not asking for anything unreasonable and it will only have a negative effect on everyone involved.

He probably is having his partner leave the house for the time being so he can have the children settle in to staying there and I’m sure after a while she will be back in the house. The courts will absolutely not care about tattle tales you bring about he said this and he said that.

Put your feelings about your ex and the affair to the side and separate them from your children’s relationship with him.

Him and your children both deserve to spend this time together. Don’t fight it.

In terms of what I want, ex is a very spur-of-the-moment kind of person, who likes to do… well exactly what he wants… and regularly changes plans. At the moment, he rings when he wants to see the kids and, if they are at home, comes and picks them up. This works for me in that we are not making advance arrangements that he will then mess around with. If he is late or doesn’t turn up, we are at home and nobody’s life is affected. Homework/ supper can just go ahead. We don’t sit around waiting for him.

Ex is also a heavy daytime drinker which contributes to the above. Some concerns in relation to this.

That ex is calling for a more formal schedule ie very surprising to me and I feel that, having secured a schedule, he would not stick to it and would constantly be requesting adjustments/ swapped dates or expecting me to fill in when he can’t make it to a pick-up. I also think he would expect to be able to see the children inbetween the scheduled contact on the same spur-of-the-moment basis as now.

With a non-court agreement, what rights do I have to enforce as what I do not want is a schedule that only applies when it suits him?

This is a quite different question obviously!

I do know her a bit though I have no idea what she feels about my kids/ their relationship

I do know her a bit though I have no idea what she feels about my kids/ their relationship
I know how hard it is emotionally. I've been there and it was heartbreaking to see my ex playing happy family with her and our young children, but legally, unless she is a danger to them, with evidence to support the claim, the Courts will grant him to have the children overnight especially after 2 years.

The only concern I see is the drinking. But if he’s a daytime drinker then overnights make no difference to that?
He can introduce his partner. You need to have a straight talk with him and ask him to be honest. But you don’t get a say here.
Also discuss with him that if there’s a court order you will be holding him to it, both in expecting him to take the time allocated and not expecting extras.
Maybe agree one overnight to start and a mid week visit to bedtime, then moving to 2 etc. At least then you can see how it works for all involved but especially the children.
His affair/ow is really irrelevant.

Well the drinking starts in the daytime and continues into the evening/ night (and I imagine, but don’t know, that new gf is part of it since I can’t see how he would have formed a relationship with someone who wasn’t).
So, if there’s a court order I can enforce it but out-of-court agreement I can’t? What happens if one parent messes around with the schedule?

You would need to show strong indication that he is still drinking whilst caring for the children in a way that could endanger them. No hearsay. This is usually hard to do unless severe.

A court order gives parents access to their children. It does give parents the right to impose visits on the other, although it doesn't look good in the eye of the Courts if a parent uses the system to gain access that they subsequently neglect through no valid reason.

Depressing that mumsnetters and family courts would buy into these tired tropes of the bitter, resentful ex. I’m not best pleased with the situation, obviously, but I don’t think having big misgivings about what is being proposed is unnatural or ignoring my kids’ best interests. The percentage chance of a relationship with a 30 year age gap surviving is minuscule, my ex’s personality and baggage make it even less so… and yet all this is to he inflicted on two kids who have already had quite a lot inflicted on them!

What do you think is driving his wish to have regular planned contact now?
My ex was always exactly like yours sounds with our DS. He would never have wanted anything like a schedule. There must be some reason he is seeking this now. Could you ask him?

I think your misunderstanding us, not one of us want our DC playing happy families with the OW, most of us would like them to meet her once and for her to inexplicably get ketchup all over a white top and fall on her face in a muddy puddle.

The advice being given is because it’s what will happen if it goes to court, save your energy for the fights you are more likely to win. Agree to what he has asked, and keep a log of how often he cancels, changes arrangements etc. then you have evidence ready for if he ever tries for 50/50.

Clarifying that I don’t know how long they have been together. After I learned of the affair, there was a long time when he seemed to be seeking to reunite but then it must have at some point resumed or going on all the time. They have been living together for not that long.