Brother buying a house with elderly mother - what will happen to inheritance?

[LegoBricksOuch]

Me and my sister just found out that my mother has sold her house, and will be buying with my brother and his wife (plus their small children) one big house. He has been working on her doing this ever since he found out how much her home was worth a couple of years ago. She was reluctant when she mentioned it last time to me.

My mother will be contributing 80% of the funds to the new home.

The concern me and my sister have is, my mother is vulnerable in terms of being registered disabled, with a condition that affects her memory and mobility.

Also, my brother is very materialistic, and only tends to show up/get in touch when he is after money. I don’t feel he is doing this for her in any way.

He sadly wouldn’t think twice in doing me and my sister out of any inheritance my mum would leave us too.

What would happen if my brother and his wife split? Would my mum be turfed out into the streets and lose her money? Has my mum effectively just given our brother the full inheritance? Made herself vulnerable?

The move would take them a considerable distance from me and my sister, effectively we couldn’t ensure she was being looked after either.

We are in Scotland

Who’s the name is on the deeds and how is the house owned? Are they tenants in common with an 80% share belonging to your mother? Has she made a will do specify what would happen with the house/her estate should she pass away? How would care home fees be paid for if she needs them in the future? Is your relationship with your mum good enough to discuss these matters?

Go and speak to your mum about this. Find out if they are going to be tenants in common with her 80% kept in her ownership, and a will written that it must be split between the 3 of you, so your brother has to sell to pay you and your sister or buy you out.

You have to go and just speak to your mum.

So questions to consider.
Is your mum competent to take this decision?
Is her 80%ring fenced? It should be protected so that her 80% remains her 80%.
Does she realise she will effectively be trapped as if she ever wants to move she will likely have to force a sale via the courts to get her money back, and I suspect she won't want to do thisdies anyone have POA for your mum?
Not sure about the law in Scotland, but are there elements of coercive control (sounds like it)?
If the 80% is ring fenced and when she dies, with a will that splits her assets between your siblings, then not sure how you are going to get your inheritance out unless your brother sells.
If the 80% is not ring fenced then yes your SIL will be able to put a claim in a portion of property (50% ish) in a divorce.
In Scotland children I think children inherit the portable assets as something of a matter of course. But it sounds like she won't have much cash left to distribute.
What's the plan if she needs extra /nursing home care? How will this be funded?
What's the proposed property like? Is it properly set up for multi generational living or would your mum be in an outside shed.
If she has capacity to make the decision, and she understands the pitfalls and ramijfications then I think unfortunately you just have to let her get on with it. And then either pick up the pieces or don't when it all goes pear shaped.
Inheritances are never guaranteed unfortunately

She’s not moving in with them, they are moving in with her if she owns 4/5 of the property. It’s not your inheritance, it’s her home and her money.

Yes, potentially it could be a complete shitshow if there is a divorce or your mum dies. Or potentially has to go into care, although I know Scotland does state fund care.

However, this is your mum’s money and your mum’s choice. Unless you can prove that she is not capable of understanding the decision she is making you’re pretty stuffed, or in for an expensive and ugly legal battle.

Sorry, only just found this out, so don’t have any answers to the above questions.

Will be asking her if this is what she wants, and if she understands the implications with this.

Not sure if they have picked a house yet, but I have a feeling my mum won’t get the best room etc. She is going to be totally outnumbered by them, and have to dance to their tune with all of it.

Not sure if she is of sound mind to be honest. She got on a train last year and ended up crying all confused not remembering where she was going, and is on many drugs. Not having her nearby to check on is stressing me the most in this.

Me and my sister will speak to DM. We don’t really speak much to our brother, so no point asking him anything.

You need to speak to her and if any concerns regarding capacity ask her to attend gp and they will do memory test. If she has you should set up POA. Really if she wants to buy the house and leave to her son it’s her choice but not very nice for you

I’d be seeking legal advise. And maybe seeing if someone can be her power of attorney that’s not your brother.
Call the gp, and also adult social care if your worried she is vulnerable & being taken advantage off.

These posts kill me. GET FINANCIAL ADVICE for goodness sake. Don’t ask MN about complex tax planning. I do this all day long - it’s complicated and you need advice specific to your particular circumstances.

MN is not the place for these questions.

You need to make sure your Mum gets solid legal advice, surrounding protecting her interest in the home and ownership.

She also needs very good financial advice around IHT/ gifting implications and also providing financial stability should she need any long term care etc.

Hope you figure out a solution that benefits your Mum in all this, as it sounds like to has potential to go completely awry!

First off, you need to speak to your mum to see if she wants to share a house with a growing family and lose all her privacy. Does anyone have Power of Attorney for your mum? If not, get it done as soon as possible as it sounds like your brother is trying g to control her and her money! But you really need to speak to a solicitor and sooner rather than later!

Please also have a Mental Capacity Assessment completed if you think she does not always have capacity. A good solicitor would need to take capacity into account where there is to be shared ownership of the home.

Do you have POA? Does your brother? Have you seen your mums will?

They need to talk about what will happens when she needs to pay for care home fees surely?

Consult a solicitor immediately on this, do not let this go ahead, for yourself, your sister and especially for your mother’s sake!! He’s without a doubt buying a house for himself and his family with your mothers funds, do not let this go ahead, the way you’re describing everything and how your brother is she will end up miserable as hell living with them and probably isolated in a small box room, especially that she’s already gotten confused over things! He probably brainwashed your mother into keeping things from you and your sister so get the truth from her, the only one benefiting out of this is brother and his family!!

@LegoBricksOuch , your inheritance? You are in Scotland and I’m not sure of the law there it may protect you.
You could have offered to take the responsibility of looking after your mum as she ages but you didn’t. You sound so grabby and untitled. 🤢

She got on a train last year and you’re worried she’s not of sound mind, but her welfare has only just occurred to you now she might be selling what you consider to be your inheritance.

You and your brother sound a delight!

@springtimemagic "These posts kill me. ... I do this all day long - it’s complicated and you need advice specific to your particular circumstances."
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@OhYeahOhYeah "MN is not the place for these questions."
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With respect, I totally disagree that MN is not the place for these questions.

Yes, this is something that is very complicated indeed and the OP's mum definitely needs specific advice for her particular situation. I don't think that anybody would suggest otherwise.

Asking these sorts of questions in a place like MN will, at the very least, give a person some idea of the sort of issues that may exist. They can then follow that up by getting professional advice.

But if you aren't even aware of what the issues might be, what do you do then? This is where MN comes in.

People who have expertise or experience in one subject can often over estimate how much knowledge that people not involved in that area have of the details of that particular subject (just read how often the same issues keep on cropping up).

Just because you may be aware of the issues does not mean that most people are.

It brings to my mind the phrase "unknown unknowns" from a speech in 2002, just after 9/11**.

"...there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know."

This can be applied on an individual level as well. For example:

known knowns I know how to change the tyre on my car.

known unknowns I know that I put petrol in my car but just exactly how that is transformed into power when I put my foot on the accelerator I have no idea; it's been a very long time since I studied chemistry and I've never studied engineering.

unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know I used to have a VW Golf GT TDI about 15 years ago. I loved it, it was very nippy and cheap to run.

Yes, I used to own a VW diesel. These were the people who came up with a way of cheating on MOT tests. Could I have had any conception at all that there was a chip in my car that was specifically designed to cheat on an MOT test?

That was a real "unknown unknown" - at least for me; but there were likely many other people more closely connected who knew all about this a long time before I ever heard of it.

But the same sort of thing goes for the OP (and many others like her). Things that other people may be very well aware of are totally unknown to her.

Whatever you may think of some of the replies (and in some cases on some other threads, I agree, the replies can be way off) at the very least the OP is being made aware of any "unknown unknowns" that she may have.
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** The "unknown unknowns" quote is from a speech made by Donald Rumsfeld (the US Secretary of Defense under President George W Bush) on 12 Feb 2002.

I think your brother may find himself in trouble, if your mum becomes unwell and needs LTC they will go after the house irrelevant of the share. They can sell it to get the money. Everyone needs advice in this scenario

if your mum needs to go into care then the council could look at whether she deliberately sold her house to avoid paying car home fees.

You want the inheritance money but you’re so “ close” to your mother that you didn’t even know she sold her house? a house sale doesn’t take five minutes

Lol, it's your mother's money not yours! I cared for lady in a similar situation one daughter taking in the mother, having a hoise built on their land for her with her mothers money the other sister grabby offering no support asking about inheritance before the poor women was in the ground. It made the lady ill from the pressure and worry - in the end she moved into the new house and cut the ££ vampire off. I suggest you wait until the will is read - its not your business to argue over someone else's money

your mum sounds like she needs some support and help and your brother and wife can offer this. Did you offer any support or help to your mum?

When you're totting up the inheritance, don't forget that your brother will have been saving you god knows how much in carehome fees.

So mum currently lives in the same town as me and my sister. My brother wants to move her to the other side of the country where he lives.

We (me and my sister) currently go around daily to be with her/help her. When he comes down, we notice things go missing (lawn mower, tools etc). He just takes what he wants from her, but me and my sister have (stupidly) let these things slide up to now as he has a bit of a temper.

I trust my sister, but we don’t trust our brother to do what’s right for our mum. Whenever she has had any spare money, he has come sniffing for it.

She does have a diagnosed condition, so she is vulnerable.

Just found out he wants her to rehome her elderly dog once they move too. This would devastate her, but she has already started asking around who would take him.

I can’t believe this is what she would want. She has had him since he was a puppy.

It was placed in auction.

We didn’t know anything about the sale - no sign outside, didn’t see any viewings.

My brother arranged it all I’m since finding out.