Possible prison sentence - what happens to my children?

[Lonerangerr]

I know what I did was wrong and I know that people will not like what I done but I accept what I’ve done and wish I could turn back time.

a few years ago, I suffered a horrendous break up which dug up decades of trauma and resulted in me attempting to take my life. Following this, I was self sabotaging in any way possible and feeling unworthy. During this time, I was struggling with money. Not stable enough mentally to go to work whilst also trying to care for 2 children. During this time a friend reached out to me and offered me some money in exchange for doing something for him.

He set me up with someone who made fake car finance applications and set me up with a fake ID to complete these applications and collect the cars. The payment for this was so small so I don’t know why I did it. I didn’t even rationalise that this was illegal. He told me that the identities were fake and not linked to real people. I completed one and collected the car for him early in the year.

a couple of months after, I finally got a job, was having therapy and bettering my life. Until this guy reached out again asking me to collect another car. I was reluctant and tried to ignore him but he was persistent. He messaged and called me non stop. He knew where I lived and where I worked and in the end I felt scared that he would come for me so I went to get the car.

not long after, I was arrested for fraud. The investigation has been going on for 18 months and they have finally charged me. I’m due in court soon and honestly feel like life is over for me. The amount of fraud totals to around £60,000 and everything online points to a custodial sentence.

I have never committed a crime in my life apart from this. I know I was in a bad state of mind but really I should’ve still known right from wrong. On top of this, my daughter has accused her dad of SA and there is currently and investigation going on meaning I’m her sole carer.

I’m scared and hate myself for what I have done. I don’t recognise the girl I was back then. I’m a devote Christian now, working hard on myself, dealt with my life of trauma through multiple types of therapy, I have recovered from the darkest period of my life. I need to be here for my daughter now but I know the reality is that I’ll be behind bars and I won’t be able to keep her safe.

I don’t know what to do and have found myself slipping back into depression with bad thoughts since receiving the papers.

what is going to happen to my girls? I don’t want them to be in care, my mistake shouldn’t have to impact them and I feel like the worst mother ever for letting them down. I hate myself for all of this

Gracious, the self-righteousness. She was originally asking for help on how to manage it from her child’s perspective. And, by the way, if you don’t want people to think you’re sticking the boot in for the fun of it, then it’s best to not sound like you’re enjoying it.

1. I would be absolutely shocked if you got a custodial sentence. First offence, nonviolent, prisons are full, children in the picture, element of coercion. Its possible, but seriously, I'd be shocked. You might get a suspended sentence and you probably will be fined, and the fines can be stiff, so be prepared for that

2. Really, I wouldn't go too hard on the religious repentance/religious language in court. It won't go down well. I'm not questioning your conviction or your belief, I'm just telling you it won't work in your favour. Stick to the facts. You were pressured by various factors, you have since reformed, you have no other history of offending.

Every Saint had a past, and every Sinner a future. Best of luck OP.

I used to work with someone who went to prison for 12 months for around 25k worth of fraud so it is possible. The fact you have a child may lessen this risk?

has the man involved been arrested? Do the police /prosecution know and accept he talked you into it and that you weren’t the main beneficiary of the crime?

No one but OP's lawyer (or someone else with legal experience and detailed knowledge of the case) should be advising OP on what is best to do or not do in terms of what is presented to the court. We don't have the anywhere near enough details. We don't even know what she's charged with, and whether it's one offense or two.

You think ‘God’ is going to look after the OP’s children? What a stupid comment. Is he going to miraculously appear, set up home and parent them? Utterly deluded.

The fact that OP has children of course reduces the risk. The judge/magistrate (don't know where this will be tried) will need to balance the need for a custodial sentence against the children's rights to family life under the HRA. This is why most people are saying chances of a custodial sentence are slim but of course we don't know enough to say for sure (eg there might be aggravating factors to the offence we don't know about).

I think it's worth a reminder to people that this is legal matters not chat or AIBU. It's not really fair to the OP for people who don't know anything about the law to speculate on the basis of what happened to someone they know. I can't stop anyone posting anything, but please do think about the fact we have someone here who (whatever you think of what they have done) is concerned that she may go to prison and is worried about the impact of that on her kids, including one child who has experienced SA before you post to suggest the prison is likely if you don't actually know what the law is.

Not necessarily at all. The OP can just ask her mum to take them - this doesn't need to be anything to do with social services. They certainly won't voluntarily take on responsibility for assessing and visiting her if they don't need to. Not all children who stay with relatives for a short period are overseen by social services.

I assume she has a solicitor for the criminal matter. This post was referring to family law - ie needing legal advice regarding care of her children (which is probably unnecessary but couldn't hurt)

I think it's very clear that this commenter meant someone from the church may be able to step in to care for OP's children if she goes to prison. Perhaps as a placement or even as a person to visit them whilst she's inside.

OP make sure you have someone with you when you go to court who can be in the stands for you. It will likely be a big comfort.

Take the advice of your solicitor. If a custodial sentence seems likely then then best thing you can do is prepare yourself and your children for that. If there is a close friend from church then ask that they visit the children if they go into foster care. Write letters now and record videos now for your children to watch whilst you are incarcerated.

If the worst happens then your children will be cared for and will be allowed to visit you. Do you have any suitable family as the place they will first look to place them will be with family.

Start getting ducks in a row to prepare to be away for a while. It's okay to tell your children you did something wrong and that you have apologised and will be recieving some sort of punishment. That is a scenario children are familiar with.

In the meantime the way you live now has an impact on your case. Keep your head clean, stay firmly within the lines of the law, make sure that you are currently living as a responsible law abiding person who poses no risk of reoffending. Your mental health at the time may well be considered, but it will need to be clear that you have your mental health under control and measures in place to make sure you don't end up back in the same place where you risk reoffending.

OP I'm rooting for you but you need to start being bloody strategic and proactive, not reactive. That means:

• reporting the harassing messages to the police and your solicitor if you have a copy of them:
• telling the church. They are your community. It takes a community, etc., and they will want to support you.
• researching coercion and being clear, withexamples, concrete if possible (text messages and so on) of everything you faced there. Coercion is a crime.
• collect all mental health notes regarding doctors visits or anything else during your mental health crisis.

You HAVE to use all evidence you have. Good luck OP seriously, we all mess up, maybe not criminally, but shoe me a person who hasn't made a mistake and you can come and see the money tree that's growing in my back garden.

When a parent goes up prison SS tend to be involved.

They will want the child to stay with family members if possible and they may not need to be involved very much.

But it’s highly likely they will be involved, especially as they are already involved regarding SA.

Are you a judge/solicitor/barrister?

Fast?? Oh yes, that'll swing the sentence...

I do think you need to discuss this in more detail with your solicitor.

If fake IDS were involved I struggle to understand what you mean by you didn't rationalise anything illegal was happening. Surely the fact you needed fake ID would have been clear it was nefarious.

I would reframe it from 'sinned' to 'broken the law'. You are going through the judicial system, not a confession.

Completely agree, but I didn't say it's likely - I said it's possible.
I totally get that there's someone who is stressed/worried here but there are also a number of posts saying "oh you won't get a custodial sentence". The OP herself has said her solicitor has said she might.

While I wish her the best I also don't want her to be falsely reassured by people who equally don't know enough....she needs to prepare for the worst possible situation. So that may be talking to her kids about the possibility - no idea if that's the best thing to do or not. Does it prepare them or does it (perhaps needlessly) worry them? Only OP knows her kids and knows what might be best for them. But possibly the most important thing is to talk to her mum about having the kids if necessary, and any practicalities of has her mum got a key to the house, how are house bills, rent, etc going to be paid, direct debits managed, etc.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best would be my advice.

The one bit of advice that was previously given on here is about exploring the possibility of if anyone from the church community can have the kids! No way is that a good idea - you have no idea who people are under the surface. If the OP's family can't help then it would need to be registered and vetted foster care. Hopefully ti will not coem to that though.

This
And also can you approach people who know you very well at your church to provide you with character references ahead of legal proceedings?

As a fellow Christian, I just wanted to come on here and say that I am praying for you. I’m so sorry you are going through this and hope that you find the support you and your children need from your church. Psalm 91 is a good one to read in difficult times.

I think the bar it set pretty high for an insanity defence. You would have to prove that you didn't know what you were doing in which case they would question your ability to look after your children. I don't think "the older boy made me do it" is going to work either.

I think your best bet is to take full responsibility for your actions while explaining the circumstances that lead to your poor decision making. There are lots of things going in your favour like not having been in trouble previously but they do take financial crimes pretty seriously. I would prepare for the worst and plan for your children to stay with relatives if you end up with a custodial sentence. Hopefully for your children's sake they will give you a fine and/or community sentence.

The degree to which fraud devastates lives can't be underestimated. My elderly parents were the victims of fraud - they don't really understand what happened, but the effect it's had on my sister and me has been terrible, having to take time off work unpaid to sort things out for them, having sleepless nights worrying about them, constant anxiety that doesn't really go away.

I'm glad the OP is repentant and I hope that the outcome can avoid the suffering of her innocent children, but I don't think it's self-righteous to say the crime itself should not be minimised and it's right that the OP should be feeling remorse and regret about what she has done. I can't agree with those who are saying she should forgive herself; but she needs to find a way to live with her guilt and build a better life. I wish her well.

You'll be OK OP. Doubt it will be a custodial. Suspended sentence and community payback I imagine.

A family member got a community payback order for 100k worth of drug dealing, second offence too.

As always MN never fails to be blind to any wrong doing by a woman. If OP had said this was her DH, it would be LTB, he's scum etc etc
But, OP is a poor love being prayed for!

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/fraud/

Assuming everything the OP has told us is true, the sentencing guidelines for fraud might suggest the following:
Culpability category C (the lowest, though Cat B is not impossible)
Harm Category 3 (based on amount of losses to fraud)
Guidelines show starting point of 26 weeks custody, with a range from medium level community order to 1 year custody.
Aggravating factor is more than one offence
Possible mitigating factors include: no previous convictions, remorse, primary carer for children, in work, mental health if evidenced (almost everyone uses mental health issues as an excuse nowadays).

Note the starting point is 26 weeks custody, so OP you must be prepared for that. Pleading guilty reduces sentence by one third, so down to about 17 or 18 weeks, of which 40% would be served, about 7 or 8 weeks. I think you should be prepared for that and arrange for your DM to care for DC if necessary. However the magistrates or judge may decide on a community order because of the mitigation. It is by no means certain, committing the second offence some time later does not help your case, and it sounds like a fairly sophisticated operation which you knew at the time. Saying you committed the second offence because you were scared does not sound particularly plausible unless you had a specific threat, and can show the evidence.

OP you must report the person who persuaded you to do this to the police, and show them all the messages including the more recent ones. The police need to go after the person behind these frauds, and you need to be prepared to be a witness against them.

It is likely that you will not be sentenced at first court hearing and the case will be adjourned for a pre-sentencing report by probation. You need to tell them everything.

You clearly are remorseful, and I do hope you avoid prison, but it is not as certain as some posters think. Good luck with the case and your future.